A 12 ft. FEATHERLITE conversion

[Engineer Guy]

I crossed ~12 flash flood washes some ~25 miles out to get to this boondocking spot. 'Thelma & Louise' would have loved this ~700' precipice. 4WD Truckbed Cabovers were the only other folks out there. Indeed, someone absolutely buried a stock Olds SUV in the first River crossed. But, the Goombah detoured ~100' into the riverbed instead of crossing it on gravel. Maybe drinkin' instead of thinkin'... The Lake level is at 3,635'; the lowest since 1969. 3,700' is maximum storage elevation.

http://www.nps.gov/glca/

http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=page,%20az&wuSelect=WEATHER





One POV - to get way out there with more toys and comfort - is shown in some of the Military Trailer projects here. SERIOUS boondocking going on, with some good Interior and storage ideas to utilize. A short wheelbase, moderate-clearance TD would have made it behind a 4WD/AWD IF inertia is maintained on some gully inclines. Much of the County Road BLM is Trailer-compatible.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=055a307c8a0e3025fce442d7645c129c&f=71

My 'recycled' Bedding from stuff laying around worked 'OK', but still beat the Air Mattress I've tried. Prem's idea above sho sounds mo better.

Nearer the very-civilized County Road prior going to the Escalante Stairway BLM out of Big Water UT, some old gems had served as housing for the Corral adjacent. Note the Soil composition; impassable during rain:



I saw one 'SoCal' Teardrop at Lee's Ferry Campsite on the CO River [a NICE setting via paved road], and some sharp CTs on the road w/Windows and AC units that suggested living space inside.



http://www.arizonahandbook.com/lees_ferry.htm

http://www.rvparkreviews.com/regions/Arizona/Lees_Ferry.html

The 'Lost Coast' of CA looks like an interesting place, too. See it on Google Earth, which was a handy tool in planning this Lake Powell expedition. Elevation readouts, and embedded, uplinked pictures, really preview an area. In that only small Trailers are advised in certain spots on The Lost Coast, those or Truckbed Camping are good options for shaking out the cobwebs on a minimalist trip.

http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/arcata/kingrange/index.html

[Prem]

Engineering Guy,

Fabulous photos! Thanks for posting them.

I used to love hanging out at Lee's Ferry watching people put in the big rafts and dories. Wow! The river is really low.

Prem

[Engineer Guy]

Prem ~

I figure there's no such thing as me hijacking a thread that you started, so I'll mention Lee's Ferry...

See the CO River level from the pedestrian span of the Navajo Bridge here:



CO River water was adjudicated many decades ago when flow was historically/abnormally high. Now, there's not enough cf/s water flow to distribute per Water Pact Law. An unemployed Water Law Attorney is an oxymoron here out West.

Right near the Launch area, where plenty of vehicles were parked long-term [and presumed busy], see the Paria River Bridge flotsam buildup telling the story of the 'gully washer' that hit ~5 weeks ago. A stupendous amount of rain; more than one elderly Navajo gent told me he could remember. Note the flow Gage box.



All the newly-exposed gravel and cracked mud in the dry washes I crossed, and the wood collected on the bend in the CO River above, told me all I needed to know: Ma Nature had done a real 'rinse' cycle on the area. Crews were pouring in fill to repair Vehicle-eating sinkhole erosion right at the Paria River Bridge. Mud was still being scraped off the Lee's Ferry Road a few miles south, and new culverts were being dug. The only advantage to getting older: getting a bit wiser in Travel...

[Prem]

EG,

You take good pictures! Thanks for the info. Haven't been there since the early 80s!

I remember the flood of all floods back in the late 70s in AZ. The freeway bridges on I-17 over the Agua Fria River at Black Canyon City were lifted up off their foundations by the air in front of a massive wall of water and fell into the raging torrent. It was the middle of the night. People went whizzing off into the void. One was a big church group.

Up where I lived in Sedona, there was so much water coming down Oak Creek Canyon that there was a constant earthquake caused by massive boulders rolling and crashing into each other.

Prem

[S. Heisley]

Prem wrote:

EG,

You take good pictures! Thanks for the info.

Ditto! Thanks!

[Prem]

Cargo conversion with rear galley





http://corvallis.craigslist.org/rvs/2032957043.html

[Prem]

Featherlite Model 1610 - 18 footer (very rare)

[Trackstriper]

Prem,

Gotta question for you. We will be super-sizing our project and picking up a fresh trailer. Seven-wide by perhaps 20 or 22 ft + V-nose. Have been looking at Featherlite and Aluma. The featherlite model I'm checking out is the model 1610V ....primarily a snowmobile trailer....which is about 4" wider than your normal 1610. Overall width across the fenders is the same on either model....like every other builder of 7' models they are at max legal 102".

Question is: Do you get used to pulling a trailer that's that wide across the beam? I would think it would be tiring to pull.... having to keep on top of lane discipline all the time, I mean real work for cross-country driving. Or do you just relax into it after a while? I'm talking with Aluma to look at putting the wheels inboard somewhat....either fully under the walls like on an 8-1/2 wide, or partially under the wall by using a "six-wide" axle and putting the hubface at the outer edge of the wall. The last move would reduce the track by about 10".

Maybe I'm just being a wuss about this width thing. I'd appreciate any comments.

Bruce

[Prem]

Bruce,

Really good question and you are definitely on the right track asking Aluma to build you one with the 6 ft. axle!

When I drove an 8 ft. wide motorhome I had less stress on narrow roads because whatever I drove the wide front though, the rear was the same width. No complication. That's not the case with outer-tire to outer-tire on a 7-wide trailer being 8.5 feet. I have to constantly watch the rear view mirrors to see where the trailer tire are tracking. I have gotten to where I can be super fine-tuned in keeping the tow vehicle exactly in the center of the lane and not look back at the trailer tires all the time, but that is even more stressful.

At least there's never a worry of tipping the trailer over on a fast curve. Stability is phenomenal!

As a result. I like driving high-speed, wide roads for stress-reduced towing a 7-wide.

Like yachts, one has to weight the value of more living space vs. efficiency of movement.

FYI, 18 ft. is the maximum length of Featherlite's Model 1610 because it is all monocoque (exoskeleton) construction. That's the longest it can be with two torsion axles bolted on to the doubled structural trim on the bottom.

The perfect set-up for me would be an aluminum 7-wide with inboard wheels, but that would require heavy chassis rails to carry the axles and still leave room for wheel wells, like on the car hauler models.

Why are you up-scaling? Full-time live-aboard?

Prem

[pete42]

I have pulled many travel trailers since 1960 when I started camping in a trailer.
At first the width is a concern but over time it becomes second nature and should not cause you any stress.

[Trackstriper]

Prem,

Ya....gonna try full-timing. I spend a lot of time traveling for my work. Wife wants to go along...and fortunately, I want her to go too. I have been working on a 6x12 steel framed cargo trailer that would have been good for a week or two excursion. Small, but reasonable amenities for living. We've been in the same apartment for the past ten years and are tired of it....so a move of some sort is necessary. Had the family meeting and Suzan basically said "Lets just put it on the road and live wherever, go see things". We're on the same page.

We are both chemically sensitive and can't really spend much time... ten minutes.... in a conventional travel trailer from the store. So my work will be cut out for me. I'll work with materials that we can live with. I do want to start with a trailer with good "bones", though. I don't want to cheap out and put a lot of effort into a mediocre trailer....this will be our home for at least a couple of years. It doesn't need to be fancy, just sound.....oh, and as light as practical would be nice.

Many/most of the smaller cargo trailers are somewhat monocoque. They may run a 2"x3" tube for a side frame rail to tie the tongue and axles and sides together, but the aluminum skins with wall posts carry a good piece of the load. On many of the garden variety trailers the plywood wall liners also carry a good bit of load....got politely reprimanded by Pace for removing my 3/8" plywood panels when I took it to the factory for some warranty work on the side door. The Featherlite 1610 is more purely monocoque, a really well done design, that's what I like about it. But there's no way to bring the wheels in.

Featherlite does make the basic design longer and with a wider box, the 1610V.

http://www.fthr.com/atv_recreational-tr ... l1610vatv/

They put a riser member (perhaps small sub-frame, perhaps off-set...haven't seen one in person) above the axles to gain clearance for the torsion arms, that's where they gained the extra width. Somewhat visible in the factory photos.

Local dealer is working to price it without front ramp and barn doors in lieu of rear ramp. Hopefully in a few days I'll have more info from both Featherlite and Aluma. Another option, which I might consider, is that I believe I can get a seven wide with wheels under from a builder just several hours south of here. But that would be steel framed...maybe 60% the cost of the aluminum rig, but heavier too. And the fit and finish isn't typically as good as with aluminum.

Trailers...all compromise of some sort. I'm looking for a sweet spot that's easy to tow but gives me enough box volume to work with. Right now seven wide and long seem to be the best bet.

Bruce

[GPW]

I was shocked going from towing the Hindenburg , my Jayco 20' TT , to the 4' wide mini CT ... I had to keep looking back to see if it was still there... leading to the thought that there's a great compromise between the size of the CT, the size necessities of the intended cargo, and the ease of operation/towing ... and like Pete says , from towing anything from a trailer to a boat ... after a couple of miles of Intense concentration and anxiety , it all becomes second nature...


EDIT: Track , you beat me to it ... the compromise ...

[Prem]

Ideal Travel Trailer Size?

http://www.fthr.com/atv_recreational-trailer/model1610vatv/

I installed a 36" wide, RV door on my Featherlite. Makes it feel more like a home. 32-wide factory door is okay.

Bruce, so, you're gonna get the 6' 6" ceiling and the full length of 24 ft? (The V-nose will give you almost 27 feet inside.) Awesome for living in. Wild to tow, especially in cross winds.

We have a highway to the coast here that is like driving down Baja. In some places, on tight 25 MPH curves high above the Smith River, in the canyon, each lane is about 10 feet wide. Semi trucks travel it with 8.5' wide trailers 50 feet long. It is freakin' scary to drive even not towing when you meet one of those on a curve. Consider the semi's mirror sticking out. I measure everything against those driving conditions, since the coast is where all the great camping spots are. Sorry.

My ROUND TAIL trailer (see photos on Round Tail link below) is 6.5 ft. wide and 12 ft. long. The wheels are inboard in wells. It's 3" wider on each side than the tow vehicle (Ford F150) so I can still see it and far behind it in the mirrors. No stress. It's perfect. Could be 6 to 12 ft. longer. An 18-footer is likely my next project. (Bought the 3.5k axle and 225x15 trailer tires and wheels already.)

[Trackstriper]

Prem,

Thanks for the clue on the 32" door, I was thinking maybe 28" would be enough and that 32" might be cumbersome. I'll stick with the stock 32" and not let that be an issue...I'm asking these guys to change a lot already.

Suzan and I walked through a lot of travel trailers with varying ceiling heights and agreed that 6'-3" or 6'-4" would be the practical minimum. I'm 5'-10" w/shoes so I could just get by with a 6'-0" ceiling...seems Featherlite measures at the wall and has an additional 1" of bow at the center of the roof ribs. But, that height would get old after a while....especially after I lower the ceiling to insulate. I'm thinking 3" total rigid in the ceiling...1" between the ribs + 2" below, then fit ceiling...that eats up 2" of height. I could certainly live with 5'-11" along the centerline for a while, but not too long, it would definitely be like living in the basement. Some companies will only work in 6" increments due to jigging. Others have more flex and may be able to work with an intermediate height like adding 3" or 4". No roof air to have to duck under, two window units mounted and ducted internally, run by Honda 2000i which I have if no shore power is available.

We have some square-peg ideas about what needs to be in the trailer for full-timing and I'm at 22' long + 42" V at the moment. Don't know if I can get it down to 20'.....two feet on a trailer this size is huge when it comes to providing living space that you can "live with". May get stuck with a 60" snowmobile prow but will lobby for the shorter nose, there will be a forward bed and I can't utilize the deeper V as much as the extra 18" will cost me in overall trailer length.

I guess one of the compromises is short and fat, or long and skinny. I'd like to be able to see around the trailer enough without really wide mirrors....I understand that seven wide is not much of a problem....full-sized domestic van TV. You're right, too long and the length becomes a problem. A 22 footer + 42" V + short tongue would equate to about a 27-28 foot travel trailer....there's lots of them on the road, and they're all 8'+ wide.

Stopped at a truck stop this afternoon and measured an 18 wheeler, 102-" across the trailer, 101+" across the outer edges of the tires. 'Bout like your 1610 in the tire department.

At times I think, just build it, build it like you really want it, from the frame up. Then I realize that I probably don't have the time or energy right now, I still have to work for a living. But judging from your previous post we may be thinking a lot alike in the format for the perfect larger trailer. I see you only bought one 3500# axle, with large wheels that will really carry the weight. Hmmm. That's the way I was thinking too. A single axle should be able to carry an 18-20 footer if it was designed well and light.

http://www.gulfstreamrvtrailers.com/gs/ ... t_Towables

Later.

[Prem]

Engineer Guy wrote:

The 'Lost Coast' of CA looks like an interesting place, too.

Nice little campground for shorter RVs on the beach beside the Mattole River just 5 miles west of the little town of Petrolia.
(See: http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/prog/wildlife/watchable/areas/mattole.html ---and--- http://tinyurl.com/mattole)