Would you use a 50 amp, or 30 amp? Why?

[eamarquardt]

You can save a ton of money cooking with electricty that you are already paying for instead of propane fuel that just keeps getting more expensive.

I cook a lot outdoors at home on a profane grill and a humongous three element gas burner. The cost of the propane is negligible when you use the five gallon tanks. Almost all restaurants use gas burners for cooking. The chefs must be onto something.

Electricity is much more safe for heating the trailer as well.

It is certainly easier to use, it can be safe or unsafe depending on how its used. Just about any system can be safe if properly installed and maintained.

In most cases 30 amps will be plenty of power. But everyone's "needs" are different. Think about what you want. Add up the power needs and then wire according to your needs. It's what you want that matters most. If you are going to build it for you there is no reason not to build it exactly the way you want it.

True!

Cheers,

Gus

[Larwyn]

My experience from living full time in a 27 foot 5th wheel trailer for about 4 years is that a 30 amp service is satisfactory. You can run enough "stuff" to trip the breaker but it is easy enough to avoid that situation too. The 5'er had electric/propane water heater and refrigerator. It also had a microwave and we used a Bunn coffee maker with it's little hot water tank that too. One "sure fire" way to trip the breaker was to run the microwave, the air conditioner and the toaster oven all at the same time, so if you need to that, you may want to go with the 50 amp service......

One electric heater was a real life saver when we ran out of propane in the middle of the night....... But my experience with the trailer was in South East Texas so your conditions up there are much different.

[Kyle1911]

Good points on the cooking and heating. I suppose I should have been more specific from the start. I want to avoid all of the overpriced RV specific stuff. To do that, I am willing to spend a little bit more $ and effort on a beefy electrical system. I will have the following high-amp items: Electric water heat=1500w, King electric wall heater w/remote t-stat=1500W, counter top convection toaster oven=1500W, Electric 2 burner stovetop,=1500W, 13.5k roof air=1500W running, with the big kick at startup, tv/dvd/surround=500W, Microwave=700W, coffee pot=1100W, Battery charger=?(A lot) Lights will be mostly CFL, and, although I will rarely use more than 3 of these things at once, the water heater and either ac or heat is a deal breaker to stay within the 80% safety rule for loading a breaker at 30A. The heater is the same 5000ish BTU as all other 1500W units, but it sure does belt out the heat. I've owned probably a dozen space heaters over the years, and this thing kicks butt. Maybe the ducting is more efficient, maybe it's secret voodo magic. How it works in the real world, remains to be seen. The trailer will be coming with an insulated floor, and I'll do the walls and ceiling with 1" R6 polyiso. I guess, the way I look at it, (For my needs) 50 amp service should only cost me about $200 extra if I do it now. That's making my own 30' 6AWG power cable, and the larger power center. If I don't, and find I need it, or wish I'd had it, It would be a major PITA. If I added a propane furnace, and water heater, I'd be in business. But to buy them new, would be roughly $1000,-$1500, give or take, for just two of the appliances. Start adding RV oven, propane tanks, and all the accessories to make it all work, and it would break my bank (Even more) The items I will be using are amazingly inexpensive (Ok, not the roof ac, we all know that), and easily replaced, most of them at Wally World. I enjoy cooking outside, most of the time. I also don't plan to sit inside a trailer and vegetate in front of a tv. Eastern Wa, not a big deal, we are pretty much high desert here. The Seattle side of the Cascades, another story. It's really easy to plan a trip, only to arrive, and find rain, fog, and general yuck. In that case, a more home-like trailer would save the day, especially with two easily bored Teenage mutants along (Why don't I drink beer anymore???) I guess if you see a black and gray v-nose with a big, fat cord that glows a dull red running out to the power post, you will know you have found me! Wow, that was a rambling post, hunting and pecking! Thanks for the input folks, feel free to ad more! Regards, Kyle

[eamarquardt]

Good points on the cooking and heating. I suppose I should have been more specific from the start. I want to avoid all of the overpriced RV specific stuff. To do that, I am willing to spend a little bit more $ and effort on a beefy electrical system. I will have the following high-amp items: Electric water heat=1500w, King electric wall heater w/remote t-stat=1500W, counter top convection toaster oven=1500W, Electric 2 burner stovetop,=1500W, 13.5k roof air=1500W running, with the big kick at startup, tv/dvd/surround=500W, Microwave=700W, coffee pot=1100W, Battery charger=?(A lot) Lights will be mostly CFL, and, although I will rarely use more than 3 of these things at once, the water heater and either ac or heat is a deal breaker to stay within the 80% safety rule for loading a breaker at 30A. The heater is the same 5000ish BTU as all other 1500W units, but it sure does belt out the heat. I've owned probably a dozen space heaters over the years, and this thing kicks butt. Maybe the ducting is more efficient, maybe it's secret voodo magic. How it works in the real world, remains to be seen. The trailer will be coming with an insulated floor, and I'll do the walls and ceiling with 1" R6 polyiso. I guess, the way I look at it, (For my needs) 50 amp service should only cost me about $200 extra if I do it now. That's making my own 30' 6AWG power cable, and the larger power center. If I don't, and find I need it, or wish I'd had it, It would be a major PITA. If I added a propane furnace, and water heater, I'd be in business. But to buy them new, would be roughly $1000,-$1500, give or take, for just two of the appliances. Start adding RV oven, propane tanks, and all the accessories to make it all work, and it would break my bank (Even more) The items I will be using are amazingly inexpensive (Ok, not the roof ac, we all know that), and easily replaced, most of them at Wally World. I enjoy cooking outside, most of the time. I also don't plan to sit inside a trailer and vegetate in front of a tv. Eastern Wa, not a big deal, we are pretty much high desert here. The Seattle side of the Cascades, another story. It's really easy to plan a trip, only to arrive, and find rain, fog, and general yuck. In that case, a more home-like trailer would save the day, especially with two easily bored Teenage mutants along (Why don't I drink beer anymore???) I guess if you see a black and gray v-nose with a big, fat cord that glows a dull red running out to the power post, you will know you have found me! Wow, that was a rambling post, hunting and pecking! Thanks for the input folks, feel free to ad more! Regards, Kyle

I am not "entirely convinced" that you are going "camping".

Sounds more like you're running away from home.

Cheers,

Gus

[Kyle1911]

There are days Gus.......I have a friend that roams the country living out of his 6x10. No mortgage, no mailbox, no forwarding address. No hassle. Home is where he parks. I have always been happy alone, as I lived that way all my life until I got married 2 years ago. I love my new family, but the inner Man-Wolf does howl at the moon some nights, and long for the solitude and simplicity my buddy has. He's got a lot of stuff built into a small space. Everything except people, and drama, that is. If life turns funky on him, he can hitch up, gas up, hoist his finger, and drive away. There are days... Regards, Kyle

[Corwin C]

There are many regular homes that only have 100 amp service. This is for clothes dryer, electric stove/oven, water heater, living room, kitchen, 3 or more bedrooms, garage, & etc. I can't imagine actually needing 50 amp in a small trailer (unless you have an old Lincoln welder in the back).

[Kyle1911]

Hmmm, As a matter of fact, I could roll the PrecisionTIG 225 in the back, and make a few bux fixing all the factory built lightweight TT's at the local rv park. Might make a darn good bug zapper, also. Just crank up the high freq, clip the tungsten to some chicken wire (I'll get wifey to touch it, and make sure it's working) and letter' rip! Regards, Kyle

[Miriam C.]

Don't forget the power cord and an appropriate sized inlet. I run a 14/3 that is 15 amps but very little electricity gets used at one time. The worst I did was a coffee pot and air conditioner or coffee maker and hair dryer at the same time. Wasn't for very long.

[eamarquardt]

Hmmm, As a matter of fact, I could roll the PrecisionTIG 225 in the back, and make a few bux fixing all the factory built lightweight TT's at the local rv park. Might make a darn good bug zapper, also. Just crank up the high freq, clip the tungsten to some chicken wire (I'll get wifey to touch it, and make sure it's working) and letter' rip! Regards, Kyle

Do you think we can find room for my Miller Dial Arc HF. After all, it puts out 310 amps! It's on the fritz right now as the torches power line cooling jacket burst (I'm not telling why!) but I can repair it with a water return hose for $15 or so verus a new power cord for about $125!

My wife has learned not to touch the tungsten when I'm using the machine. She's one smart cookie, ha!

Cheers,

Gus

[dh]

Nobody else seams to see the major flaw in going with 50 amp service in a TD that I did when I first started following this thread. Along with everything else already stated, have you ever taken a look at the sites with 50 amp service? First off, you typically have to pay more for 50 amp service, and on top of that, they are typically gigantic spots for larger rigs (and therefor typically surrounded by the same.) I wouldn't want to have to deal with either.

[Miriam C.]

You can still use 30 amp service if you are wired for 50amps. You will just only get 30 amps and have to compensate on what you use. Most of our sites that have electric have both and it isn't a big deal.

[Engineer Guy]

I think Miriam C. nailed the answer: wire 'big' and scale back to 30 Amps depending on Weather, and other scenarios and needs...

There's a 'Tech' answer to your question, and a 'Lifestyle' answer. Me, I could see letting a WH w/extra Insulation heat up and then 'coast' when turned off, or on a Timer. I've done this at several Houses, and it reduces the WH current draw/day. I 'know' to not use Appliance 'x' while the Coffee Pot is also brewing, since that's the period of max current draw vs. keeping Coffee hot after brewing. A 'soft start' Capacitor on the A/C, used by many on other Forums, reduces in-rush current during Compressor start-up. Lotsa tricks out there for manual or automated Power Management...

Given the Occupants of your Rig, is conformance to all these lil tricks likely? From how others report in on what I term this 'Lifestyle' issue, probably not.

We bounce around to multiple places, but our '87 Suburban House is now considered 'under-supplied' at it's 125 Amp Mains capacity. As we sell off Property and consolidate to 1 House, we have to look at upgrading that 125 Amp Service, a Realtor sez, to make it a non-issue with today's current-consumptive Lifestyle. A Pro Electrician Pal and I can do it no sweat. He just did our Neighbor's. The object lesson in our Neighborhood - and this has come up with other Sellers - is that the 'adequate' Service of today is the 'sub-optimal' Service of tomorrow. If I could predict the future, I'd be down at the Horse Track. However, your Rig MIGHT be 'under-supplied' some future day, so why chance it if the ~$200- incremental cost is not a show stopper? Who woulda thunk years ago that 30 Amps Rig Service could be 'insufficient', eh? My Parent's post-WW II Bungalow had low Amp, screw-in Fuses on the Mains.

Having seen 'dualing Slideouts' almost touch from adjacent Big Rigs at busy KOAs near us, the point above from dh about where you park is a very good one.

With 50 Amp Service embedded, you could locate where you choose and have it both ways: 30 or 50 Amp. That said, we've Boondocked on Scottish Shorelines in a rented Class C and would not have hooked up for the World.

Camping is what you think it is... I've been around the World on Biz. Some of the TDs here are incredibly luxurious if everything you own fits in a old Sack; the case in rural China and India...

[Kyle1911]

I think I've settled on the 50 amp idea. The Parallax box will add a little to the cost, but not much. Once I added up the cost of a panel, converter (Or even a decent battery charger) 12V fuse block, and all the nickle-and-dime-ya' to death bits to roll my own, it isn't enough $ difference to be a factor. The supply cable will have to be 6/3, and that will be the most expensive difference. I've got a buddy who works for a electrical contractor, and owes me a favor. Maybe he can get it for me at a contractor discount...I agree on the bigger sites being filled with bigger rigs, that I don't really want to park next to. A hundred screaming kids bouncing footballs off the side of my rig isn't exactly camping to me (And shortens the life expectancy of said kids, and their parents). That said, with the v-nose, this thing will likely be 28' overall, and with a long bed extended cab truck pulling it, we won't exactly be compact. It will be nice to have the flexibility to chose 30 or 50 amp service. If we pull in and see a million booger-eating kids, or 70 year old men in speedos carrying martinis and white poodles with cataracts and IBS, we can sneak off to a more distant site, and scale back on the power. Regards, Kyle

[Engineer Guy]

If we pull in and see a million booger-eating kids, or 70 year old men in speedos carrying martinis and white poodles with cataracts and IBS, we can sneak off to a more distant site, and scale back on the power.

Lordy, what priceless writing! Tip o'the Hat to ya Sir. I just spit a minor bit of Coffee on the Dog from laughing so hard.

As I like to say 'It's not a Stereotype if it's true'!

I over-Wired and over-Breakered this new House I'm at for 'expansion'. The 1/2 width Breakers are also kinda kewl, and good for small Box retrofits. My Pro Electrician Contractor Pal quickly steered me to Square D 'Homeline' stuff from a Big Box Store where he buys his stuff too. He doesn't 'cheap out' on anything.

One Square D line of Breakers [QO?] uniquely works also for low voltage DC breakering, at least as of my 'research' ~1/2 decade ago. I JUST missed out on buying a Whole House Surge Protector that screws into a standard Panel Box. $50- - 1/2 price - on sale. Another fellow picked it up just before me. Easy come, easy go. They won't protect in low voltage scenarios; only against spikes and transients. My Pro Electrician Pal swears by them FYI.

Square D

I like low voltage Circuit Breakers, and there's formats now that plug into the usual Vehicle Fuse form factor. When I upgrade my new/used lil TT, I'll spring for one of these:

Blue Sea Products

On another RV Forum, folks tell 1st person stories of RV Cord theft, especially from Driveway and Storage scenarios, for the FN Copper. Snip & rip. So, they retrofit on these items linked below to detach and store the Cord. This adaptation also eliminates the dreaded Mouse entry hole in many Shore Cord Panels:

Marin Co Connectors

I used to build large Pro Sound Systems, so I likes my Pro Connectors. Before I just scored a nice TT w/unused 3 kW Genny 'thrown in' on the deal, I almost went your Build direction. So, I'll be watching your Build w/great interest!

The small Company High Vacuum Physicist I worked for over decades relocated from Pullman WA. We've only hit Bainbridge Island and my pal's fine Institution:

Blue Moon

As Groucho Marx said: 'Marriage is a fine Institution, but who wants to live in an Institution'?

I also went into Boeing, South Bay, to help with a Research Accelerator there. Turns out the entire Building Earth Ground conductivity changed with saturations of the daily Tide adjacent. That was a weird one to solve when trying to measure High Vacuum Instrumentation signals at the picoAmp level!

My Sister's a full-on degreed Pro Chef. Fuel cost advantage/disadvantage is irrelevant to them. Gas is used because of the ability to raise and lower heat level 'like that', and crank out >15k BTUs and up on a Burner. Pro Ovens are Electric, due to temp stability that can be achieved. So, that Pro-level Appliance combo is what we put here in the new House.

Square D

[Kyle1911]

The whole house surge protector would be nice. I've been eyeballing those as well. When Thurston Howell and Lovey fire up their 90A blender for happy hour, I don't want brownout conditions in my lowly cargo trailer. Hmmm, that makes me wonder if there could be a "Backfire" device rigged up. A couple beer can sized capacitors, and a electronic switch rigged to a surge protector. Brown me out=blow up your plasma, and zap Fluffy in his heated kennel, like a rat in the microwave. Regards, Kyle