Are you preparing and how.

[48Rob]

Hi Miriam,

Short term, the sewer system will still work, long term, things change.

As we all know "stuff" flows downhill.
In the mountains, people live up high, and the sewer treatment facilities are down low.

Where the ground is flatter, there are huge networks of pipes called interceptors that collect waste from the sewer mains (what most homes empty into).
They use gravity/are pitched downhill, but at the point the gravity system won't work anymore because you can only go downhill so far, there are pumping stations.
These pumps lift the sewage from depths of 25' and more back to just a few feet below the surface, where gravity takes over again.
The pumping stations have backup generators, in case of power loss, but as in the case of a major disaster, earthquake/flood, etc, the system stops working.
Once the pipes are full, the toilets won't flush as there is no where for it to go.

Septic systems and pit toilets will be the only systems that work, unless there is a flood, and then the septic system or pit is overcome with water, and won't work either.
High ground is a good place to be!

Rob

[Miriam C.]

Oh lordy ARADD I think I knew that but we lived with a septic system for so many years it just didn't register.. Ok in the event of a disaster I will be at the lake or something...

[doris s.]

Miriam,

We live in a community with a shared well. It takes electricity to pump the water out of the wells. No water no flush toilet. I also think that the sewer system can not work without electricity either. So if there is a long period without electric we would have to get water out of the creek and dig a litrine because we could not use the house bathroom. It's crazy how much our society is built on power and fuel. They say millions would die of illness if we did not have power for a long period of time.

Doris

[alffink]

Yep, long duration without power

No fresh water, no sewer for sanitation, need power for refrigeration, most people think of their freezers for long term food storage, very few root cellars in the city, heck very few in the country any more.

Power for lights and Air conditioning, heating, could you imagine no heat with the winter most of the country had this year.

But the big ones are the clean water, sewer, and refrigeration.....for most of the country that means electric, heck even us with our tear drops other than the few with the solar panels, how long can we be out of power with out recharging our batteries on a regular basis.
How many bottles of propane? how many cans of white gas, how many bags of charcoal? How many gallons of water?
We think in terms of a 4 day weekend, how about 4 weeks or even 4 months??

[GPW]

Judging from the average disasters happening around the world ,I'd say a month to 6 weeks to get things temporarily sorted... I got a couple cases of wine , and a really Large Box of Oatmeal ... If you have a TD , you already have an small efficient place to stay that doesn't cost anything ... or as my friend calls it , a "stay Free mini pad"...

[alffink]

One thing to think about, especially if you are in earthquake country

you may not want your tear, emergency food or water to be stored as a part of your house/garage

don't want the escape pod to be burried under the rubble

This could get to be real complicated to try and cover all the bases, but that's what the planing is for I guess.

[mikeschn]

Judging from the average disasters happening around the world ,I'd say a month to 6 weeks to get things temporarily sorted... I got a couple cases of wine , and a really Large Box of Oatmeal ... If you have a TD , you already have an small efficient place to stay that doesn't cost anything ... or as my friend calls it , a "stay Free mini pad"...

Do you really think 2 case of wine is enough?

I've gotten really sidetracked on the evac trailer idea. I need to go back and revisit that soon. And I think it all starts with the requirements and the length of time you are trying to evac for.

But I'll start a new thread for that when I get going on the evac trailer ideas again. Meanwhile, if you drink a bottle a day (3 1/2 glasses), per person, your wine will only last you 12 days. What are you going to do for the other 3 to 5 weeks?

Mike...

[hiker chick]

Certain meds need to be refrigerated.

Without power, our society can't support 300 million.

There's a fairly recent novel called "One Second After" -- about life after an EMP -- that is about the creepiest thing I've ever read.

Not because the book is particularly well written (it isn't), but when you start extrapolating from the premise that the nation is suddenly without electrical power and anything with a circuit is fried (such as modern cars), the horrors cascade.

Gave me the heebie-jeebies.

[Engineer Guy]

Man, some scenes of Zombies with their Arms straight out - as in 'Night Of The Living Dead' - all marching around Napa Valley comes to mind. The remake title: 'Night Of The Living Sober'. Who needs the awful 'Chainsaw Massacre' type of Films when you can contemplate the horrors of no Wine, eh?

A pal near our W. CO House sells his own Wine and Spirits. One day I was there, these palletized 55 Gallon blue Drums caught my eye. >190 proof Methanol, fit for Humans. A shot of that in 'whatever' should last anyone a week or two. Stock up on that and Welch's Grape Juice and you're good to go. He mixes it down and adds flavoring, etc., for lower Proof resale.

The Single Malts are all Cask Strength at 105 Proof or so and have been diluted down w/Spring Water to 80 Proof 'forever'. Std. Industry practice. In this kewl Scotch History Book, they reproduced wages and perks for the Peat Cutters; the guys who use long Shovels to scoop Peat Bog Fuel to dry Grain to 'cook' for Scotch. I converted their old units-of-measure twice because I didn't trust my calculations. The Peat Cutters got ~12 Ounces of 105 Proof Scotch free daily to keep going in the weather there. Guess that helps explain the Life Span way back when.

For equally non-optional requirements, one fellow has an extremely simple Paint Bucket/Sawdust/Toilet worked up:

Humanure

Water Filters would be a must. There's all sorts of Web Emergency Lists compiled, so I won't repeat them here.

Time to rent my all time fav '60s Film of this genre: 'Panic In The Year Zero'.

Panic In The Year Zero

P.S. ~ An old Tech legend has it that we shot down a Soviet Jet. The Avionics were Vacuum Tube-based, much to the amusement of our Analysts. THEN, it occurred to them that Tubes were immune to EMP. Can't fact check it; gotta run. I'm sure others can chime in on that. EMP is certainly to be reckoned with. It's part of why our new House is Murphy's Law-compliant and intrinsically simple to operate.

[Wolffarmer]

P.S. ~ An old Tech legend has it that we shot down a Soviet Jet. The Avionics were Vacuum Tube-based, much to the amusement of our Analysts. THEN, it occurred to them that Tubes were immune to EMP. Can't fact check it; gotta run. I'm sure others can chime in on that. EMP is certainly to be reckoned with. It's part of why our new House is Murphy's Law-compliant and intrinsically simple to operate.

Not a legend, but it wasn't shot down. An officer in the USSR Air force defected to Japan with his brand new Mig 25, top of the line main boogy guy to the US AF. Yes, it had vacuum tube radios. Front 2/3 thirds of the skin was flush riveted. the back portion was not. No need to back there as it did not pay to make them flush back there. They found the jet was very sturdy, easy to fix. We returned the jet after 6 weeks, in parts.



Mig 25

Randy

[GPW]

Mike , you're right !!! MORE Wine !!!! Glad you thought of that !!!

[mikeschn]

GPW,

Here's a trailer I think you'd like... It seems to have a lot of the bugout features one would need...

http://cheaprvliving.com/StealthCargoTrailer.html

Mike...

[mikeschn]

Yep, long duration without power

No fresh water, no sewer for sanitation, need power for refrigeration, most people think of their freezers for long term food storage, very few root cellars in the city, heck very few in the country any more.

Power for lights and Air conditioning, heating, could you imagine no heat with the winter most of the country had this year.

But the big ones are the clean water, sewer, and refrigeration.....for most of the country that means electric, heck even us with our tear drops other than the few with the solar panels, how long can we be out of power with out recharging our batteries on a regular basis.
How many bottles of propane? how many cans of white gas, how many bags of charcoal? How many gallons of water?
We think in terms of a 4 day weekend, how about 4 weeks or even 4 months??

Here's some thoughts for you Al...

http://www.alpharubicon.com/bovstuff/garrybot.htm

Mike...

[Miriam C.]

They are saying 5 years for Japan to recover completely and most of their country is intact....And the world is helping!

[toolman]

I recieved this e-mail this evening. Thought you all might be interested in it and maybe pass it along to friends and relatives if you find it informative.It is kind of a long read and I don't want to bore you any.

Remember that stuff about hiding under a table or standing in a doorway? Well, forget it! This is a real eye opener. It could save your life someday.

EXTRACT FROM DOUG COPP'S ARTICLE ON 'THE TRIANGLE OF LIFE'

My name is Doug Copp I am the Rescue Chief and Disaster Manager of the American Rescue Team International (ARTI ), the world's most experienced rescue team. The information in this article will save lives in an earthquake.

I have crawled inside 875 collapsed buildings, worked with rescue teams from 60 countries, founded rescue teams in several countries, and I am a member of many rescue teams from many countries. I was the United Nations expert in Disaster Mitigation for two years, and have worked at every major disaster in the world since 1985, except for simultaneous disasters.

The first building I ever crawled inside of was a school in Mexico City during the 1985 earthquake. Every child was under its desk. Every child was crushed to the thickness of their bones. They could have survived by lying down next to their desks in the aisles. It was obscene -- unnecessary.

Simply stated, when buildings collapse, the weight of the ceilings falling upon the objects or furniture inside crushes these objects, leaving a space or void next to them - NOT under them. This space is what I call the 'triangle of life'. The larger the object, the stronger, the less it will compact. The less the object compacts, the larger the void, the greater the probability that the person who is using this void for safety will not be injured. The next time you watch collapsed buildings, on television, count the 'triangles' you see formed. They are everywhere. It is the most common shape, you will see, in a collapsed building.

TIPS FOR EARTHQUAKE SAFETY

1) Most everyone who simply 'ducks and covers' when building collapse are crushed to death. People who get under objects, like desks or cars, are crushed.

2) Cats, dogs and babies often naturally curl up in the fetal position. You should too in an earthquake. It is a natural safety/survival instinct. You can survive in a smaller void. Get next to an object, next to a sofa, next to a bed, next to a large bulky object that will compress slightly but leave a void next to it.

3) Wooden buildings are the safest type of construction to be in during an earthquake. Wood is flexible and moves with the force of the earthquake. If the wooden building does collapse, large survival voids are created. Also, the wooden building has less concentrated, crushing weight. Brick buildings will break into individual bricks. Bricks will cause many injuries but less squashed bodies than concrete slabs.

4) If you are in bed during the night and an earthquake occurs, simply roll off the bed. A safe void will exist around the bed. Hotels can achieve a much greater survival rate in earthquakes, simply by posting a sign on the back of the door of every room telling occupants to lie down on the floor, next to the bottom of the bed during an earthquake.

5) If an earthquake happens and you cannot easily escape by getting out the door or window, then lie down and curl up in the fetal position next to a sofa, or large chair.

6) Most everyone who gets under a doorway when buildings collapse is killed. How? If you stand under a doorway and the doorjamb falls forward or backward you will be crushed by the ceiling above. If the door jam falls sideways you will be cut in half by the doorway. In either case, you will be killed!

7) Never go to the stairs. The stairs have a different 'moment of frequency' (they swing separately from the main part of the building). The stairs and remainder of the building continuously bump into each other until structural failure of the stairs takes place. The people who get on stairs before they fail are chopped up by the stair treads - horribly mutilated. Even if the building doesn't collapse, stay away from the stairs. The stairs are a likely part of the building to be damaged. Even if the stairs are not collapsed by the earthquake, they may collapse later when overloaded by fleeing people. They should always be checked for safety, even when the rest of the building is not damaged.

Get near the outer walls of buildings or outside of them if possible - it is much better to be near the outside of the building rather than the interior. The farther inside you are from the outside perimeter of the building the greater the probability that your escape route will be blocked.

9) People inside of their vehicles are crushed when the road above falls in an earthquake and crushes their vehicles; which is exactly what happened with the slabs between the decks of the Nimitz Freeway. The victims of the San Francisco earthquake all stayed inside of their vehicles. They were all killed. They could have easily survived by getting out and sitting or lying next to their vehicles. Everyone killed would have survived if they had been able to get out of their cars and sit or lie next to them. All the crushed cars had voids 3 feet high next to them, except for the cars that had columns fall directly across them.

10) I discovered, while crawling inside of collapsed newspaper offices and other offices with a lot of paper, that paper does not compact. Large voids are found surrounding stacks of paper.

Spread the word and save someone's life...

Jerry