Safe table saw

[JohnnyG]

This is amazing:
http://www.wimp.com/amazingtechnology/

[cyfan72]

I have seen this saw advertised in woodworking magazines. Sticking your finger in a running tablesaw....that's faith in your product!

[Big Dan]

He's going to be worth millions What a great idea. PS I love wimp.com Its better than tv. Just click NEXT.

[Yota Bill]

He's going to be worth millions What a great idea. PS I love wimp.com Its better than tv. Just click NEXT.

look into that saw design a bit more....lots of lawsuits and other drama surounding it. He holds the patent, but was trying to force legislation requiring all manufacturers to use his product and pay him for using it...the system is not meant to work that way.

That system has been out for about 8-10 years or so...have you seen that system on any saw at any store? I havent. Manufactures reasoned it would add a few hundred to the price of the saw, and lower sales volumes just because of the added price.

The system can also trip for other reasons (high water content in the wood, electrical fault, etc.) which automatically requires the stop device and the blade to be replaced, so theres that added cost as well.

Its a good system, and I personally wish there was a retrofit kit of some sort, but it does have its drawbacks. From the little reading I have done on it, the biggest drawback seems to be the greedy inventor.

[eamarquardt]

Each time you trigger an emergency stop you use a "cartridge" that costs $70 (plus shipping and tax, where applicable) and you ruin your blade.

Even so, it's a lot cheaper (and more desirable) than the cost of a visit to an ER and the permanent loss of part of your anatomy!

If I were demonstrating the saw, I think I'd use a hot dog versus my finger. Call me a pessimist or perhaps a chicken!

I've heard the same thing about the saw triggering lawsuits for various reasons. IE: It's your fault I cut off my finger when I got careless because YOU didn't pay the fellow royalties and equip your saw that I bought with the latest and greatest. I am not to blame YOU are!

Cheers,

Gus

[len19070]

I've heard the same thing about the saw triggering lawsuits for various reasons. IE: It's your fault I cut off my finger when I got careless because YOU didn't pay the fellow royalties and equip your saw that I bought with the latest and greatest. I am not to blame YOU are!

Cheers,

Gus

Its always somebody else's fault!

The best one I've heard lately was it wasn't the RV drivers fault they backed into the Tree and did all the damage. "The Campground didn't tell us the tree was there!"

Sorry for the Hi-Jack.

Happy Trails

Len

[asianflava]

I also heard about somebody suing Ryobi when he cut his fingers off. Said that Ryobi was neglegent because the saw lacked flesh detecting technology. I also read that he was using the saw without any guards in place. He got $1.5 million bucks in the suit.

He holds the patent, but was trying to force legislation requiring all manufacturers to use his product and pay him for using it...the system is not meant to work that way.

Yep, if he really was doing it for humanitarian reasons, he'd give up the patent. Apparently he isn't doing either one.

[tk]

I'm a cabinetmaker by trade. I've worked with table saws on a regular basis for most of my adult life and on a daily basis for the last fifteen or so years. When I first became aware of Sawstop technology, I poo-pooed it like many others I've heard, and I still don't think it is good engineering. (It's too expensive to buy and too expensive to engage. HOWEVER, it's the best available at the moment.) I tended to blame carelessness and/or inexperience for injuries. When a young fellow at our plant recently completely severed a thumb, I rethought my position.

This is where I now stand: Just guessing but I would bet that the cost of replacing ALL the ten or so table saws in our plant with Sawstops is probably less than the cost of the initial surgery to reattach the boy's thumb. That does not include hospitalization, additional therapy, additional bone graft surgery, settlement with the young man, etc., etc. If I were setting up a new cabinet shop today, I WOULD BUY NOTHING BUT SAWSTOP table saws. It doesn't make any difference if it is an incident of carelessness, if it is the fault of an inexperienced worker, if it is an act of God, if it is poor engineering, or if the inventor is indeed a greedy so-and-so, it simply doesn't make good economic sense to buy anything else for a commercial setting. Additionally, if I could afford it at the moment, I would be replacing the saw in my home shop with a Sawstop, post-haste. I hate to think of the consequences for my family if I have an accident in my own shop.

Just my two cents.

Best,
Tom

[Larwyn]

The "if I could afford it" part is what keeps most of us away. That and the fact that the Sawstop branded saws which use the technology are only average in performance as a table saw. If they were even close to any other saw of equal tolerance they would make a mint. As it stands you have to choose between an excellent table saw and superior safety. Most choose to take their chances on the better saw rather than the "foolproof" one.

I did buy a few raffle tickets for a Sawstop brand saw once but was not chosen as the winner. I have used saws without that feature for years with no accidents but I do realize that it only takes a split second to change that. The older I get the more cautious I get around all the power tools in my shop.

[caseydog]

Every time this Sawstop technology is posted on this forum, it get's trashed by all the "real woodworkers" -- it's like like a broken record. Seems accidents only happen to stupid people, unless it happens to "me." Then it was an accident. If it happens to you, it's because you are stupid.

If I were in the market for a table saw, I'd pay extra for Sawstop. I'm very careful with power tools, but it only takes one second of distraction. I'd gladly spend 70 bucks to fix my saw, instead of thousands of dollars on medical bills.

And, my ego would have NO problem with it.

CD

[doug hodder]

Well, it's a bit more than the 70$. The contractor saw starts at 1500$ a cabinet one 2300$+. For a home shop type use, that's pretty pricey, I can see it in a cabinet shop, many different users, with varying degrees of common sense. I use feather boards, push sticks all the time...but then I run without a guard or anti-kickback pawls on it too. Maybe I'll cut one off, maybe not, haven't in 35 years. 2300$ can buy a LOT of tools that I could injure myself with and the flesh sensitive technology isn't available on any of them...like an axe or sledge hammer. Doug

[tonyj]

After spending well over $5,000 in medical bills for my moment of inattention, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if was I was ready to purchase another saw. The premium paid for a sawstop is a bargain compared to the ultimate costs of not having that technology.

I have a woodworking buddy who bought the contractor version of the saw which saved a few bucks over the cabinet saw model. He has been very satisfied with the cut quality and performance of the saw.

[halfdome, Danny]

Contrary to the statement against professional woodworkers attitudes, the safer you make a product the more people take less responsibility for their personal safety.
I've owned a 1973 Rockwell Unisaw with a Biesemeyer fence from day one and have 42 years experience as a Cabinetmaker and have all my digits. I have and use push sticks, feather boards, sleds, straight liner sled etc. to keep it safe.
Safety is paramount with me. Operator stance, proper fence alignment, sharp blade, listening to the equipment, awareness of others in the vicinity, taking your time and actually thinking about what your doing all play in the safety factor. A saw that won't cut a hot dog is nothing but a gimmick to sell a product. I'll stick with the superior performing saw and keep safety #1. Danny

[Larwyn]

My problems with the Sawstop are quite simple.

I have seen Sawstop's contractor's saw up close and I consider it to be almost the equal of any $500 table saw on the market. That means that you are paying about $1000 for an electromechanical blade destroying device. Being electromechanical in nature, there is always the possibility of false triggers and/or failure to function due to failure of either electrical or mechanical portions of the device. The cartridge cannot be tested as it is a one shot, self destructing device.

You can never depend 100% on any safety device, so all the current safety practices (feather boards, push sticks, guards, etc.) are still required. Only now all this "stuff" protects not only your own hide, but that expensive 10 inch blade that you just bought along with the cartridge and any other damge done to the saw during a stop.

As far as I am concerned Steve Gass is an idiot. Though he did feed his finger into the side of the blade rather than straight into it, he still could easily have been seriously injured when making that video. He demonstrates a safety device while performing one of the dumbest acts I have ever seen in video. I would never reach out and touch rotating equipment for any reason.

I have one drill press in my shop that was probably manufactured in the 30's. I am using it as configured by the craftsman who was using it in the 40's (he inherited it from his father). That drill press will drill perpendicular to the table every time without fail, the spindle has practically no run out, but it has no belt guard or even a switch (plug it in, it's on). It came to me with a with a fabric covered rubber insulated 2 wire cord and a 2 prong non polarized plug (I did replace that with new 3 conductor cord and plug). It has drilled more holes in the last 70 or so years than I could imagine and has never hurt a soul.

Safety is up to the operator, not the machine.

[len19070]

I'm inclined to agree with the Pro's.

Some day somebody will create a reality show called,

"When Safety Equipment Attacks!"

I've been using a 1947 Walker Turner since I was 15...over 45 years. I was taught properly by my Father, a Master Craftsman by trade and using a Table saw is just like using any other piece of equipment, you just have to be careful and keep your wits about you.

Buying a saw for say $1500 that's only worth $500 to protect me from me just doesn't make sense.

And giving a "New User" a "false sense of security" and someone to blame just doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.

That's what keeps Lawyers in business.

Happy trails

Len