Fixing a bent tongue member

[S. Heisley]

My trailer tongue has one solid, square, heavy-duty metal beam down the center with two thinner 'C' channel beams running diagonally. My mistake was in thinking that the tongue jack could be attached to one of those diagonal members so that I would have room for everything that I wanted there. The‘C’ channel was too weak and it twisted.




However, I think I have the solution to both where to place the tongue jack and how to repair and strengthen the tongue and am asking for confirmation that the following will work:

If I purchase and attach a tongue extension, there will be clearance to put the tongue jack on the stronger middle tongue beam! (Red Trailer sells one for this particular model.) From what I've read on the forum, that will probably have a couple benefits besides making the trailer jack fit:

1) It will give me added turning ability.
2) It will make the trailer pull with more stability when on the road.
3) It will be much less costly than the alternatives.

Not being a main support, the bent diagonal member can be unbolted and removed for repair. During the repair procedure, a jack placed at the back bolted area and another jack placed at the front bolted area will temporarily support that area more than sufficiently . The bent member can then be taken to the metal shop for straightening and strengthening without taking the whole trailer. It can then be reapplied, better than ever!

So, gurus of trailer building, what are your thoughts on this plan?

[angib]

It would certainly be better to put the tongue jack on the centre tube.

The Red Trailers tongue extension appears to be just that - a tongue extension - not a longer tongue. So in effect it will make the tongue weaker, by increasing the leverage of the coupler without increasing the strength of the tongue.

Now, the tongue on your trailer may have enough reserve strength that you can weaken it safely - without running some numbers, it's hard to tell. If you want to give those numbers, I'd be happy to do this as a 'worked example' for others to follow.

'Numbers' that would be needed are:
- length, coupler ball to first cross-member;
- length, coupler ball to front end of diagonals;
- width, depth and thickness of tongue;
- width, depth and thickness of diagonals.

One further option to consider would be to buy the 36" tongue extension, but only use 12" or so of it. That might give enough space to mount the jack without weakening the tongue much.

[S. Heisley]

Thank you, Andrew (angib), you are correct. I really don't need all that length. However, the metal shop could cut it down and drill new holes. But, the point you make about weakening the over-all tongue strength is a very important consideration that I had not thought of.

Here are the measurements:

- length, coupler ball to first cross-member;

40â€

[Yota Bill]

Do not have that piece straightened and put it back on, for a couple of reasons:

when bending, part of the steel stretches, while another area crushes...when being straightened, the same process applies, but it is easier to stretch it then it is to crush it back into shape, so that is what happens mostly. The straightened piece will not have the same dimensions as it did originally.

It is also now weaker. Im sure you have seen steel break by repeatedly bending it back and forth. That process has begun with the initial bend, straightening it will continue that process. Cracks may or may not result when straightened, but will surely show up later on.

[jeprovo]

If it's a bolt together trailer, the manufacturer should be able to get you a replacement. Just call them up and tell them a piece of your trailer got damaged, and hopefully they can get you the piece. Some Customer Service Reps may even send you the piece for free, because that have an allocation of parts to replace parts that are damaged in shipping.

If that doesn't work, repair it.
Are the right and left sides interchangeable or exact mirror images?

If so, I might take both the bent one and the straight one down to a welder/fab shop and have them make the bent one look like the straight one (they may make one from scratch). If they straighten it out, I would also have them weld on a piece of angle iron to reinforce the bent piece. (I'd do both sides for the symmetry)

[Shadow Catcher]

Lets see what the numbers do but having steel bend that easily does not fill me with confidence. In most steel fabrications there is a 50% safety margin built in, but it is cheaper to make it...
You have a couple of alternatives, make a new one, reinforce the one you have (least expensive probably).
There are reasons the EU requires the use of certified trailer tongues and I think you just bumped up against it.
Were it me I would have one fabed up with the center mounted support and it you want it a bit longer to support more goodies go for it.
I would be have a chat with the trailer manufacturer though.

[S. Heisley]

Thanks, Yota Bill, jeprovo, and Shadow Catcher, for your responses.

I had thought about the fact that the piece would be weaker after it was straightened but hadn’t thought about the possibility of stretching. I plan to call the manufacturer on Monday to see if they have the replacement parts. (They didn’t appear to have those pieces on their Internet site.) If they do have them, it might be my best option, provided I beef them up some before I bolt them on. I may also check to see if I can get something done locally.

However, I still am thinking about that extension and may add that too. We’ll see if Andrew thinks it is wise.

[angib]

Sharon, you probably wanted a yes/no answer, so this may disappoint!

The Red Trailer web site says that the central tongue is 2.5" by 2", rather than the 2.25" deep you quoted, so I have used both depths to produce two sets of answers.

This is a classic example of what I call a composite tongue, so it has to be analysed in two places - once at the front cross member, using the strength of all three tongue members, and again where the diagonals stop, using the strength of just the central member.

The table below shows the allowable trailer weights by the Australian trailer rules for three different extension lengths. A box is drawn round the minimum result of the two analyses, which is the working limit.



The first (green) results are to the Aussie rules, but I think we have seen that we can allow teardrops to weight twice as much as this (because they don't get abused like Australian utility trailers do) - the red results.

So the stock Red Trailer with the standard tongue is rated to carry 1025 or 1200 lb as a teardrop (depending on the section depth). That goes down to as little as 425 or 500 lb with the full 36" tongue extension.

So if you want a simple yes/no answer, as I think Sharon is building fairly light, the tongue extension cut down to 12" looks OK to me, but anything more is getting a bit weak.

And on the question of whether the stock tongue design is adequate, and at the risk of offending Sharon, I think I would say that it looks perfectly good enough, when not subjected to operator abuse. It may be because I am not an American that I don't expect things to be built so strong that I can't damage them, whatever I do. In this case, I think I would have looked at that jack mounting and said to myself "This isn't suitable". So I don't see any problem with the tongue once it is mended.

[mikeschn]

Sharon,

What I would do after having that tongue member replaced, is weld a couple pieces of angle iron across the top. That would prevent the torsional twisting that you had on your original tongue member. But weld it, unlike what this picture shows...

Sorta like this:


Mike...

[S. Heisley]

Thank you, Andrew. Yes, you are correct about my jack placement. The steel looked strong enough to me; but, I didn't know any better. It was a hard way to learn. I stand reprimanded. However, you are kind and took the sting out of your words, while adding a lot of work and thought to help others at the same time.

I think that, once the tongue member is replaced and the tongue is repaired and possibly reinforced, adding an extension, reduced to 12" or less, might be the answer to give me the room I need to include the jack on the stronger main tongue member so that when it is folded up, it fits there.

Hindsight is only a beautiful thing if you learn from it.

PS. In answer to your comment about the size of the channel, it measures 2-1/4 " but the hitch is 2-1/2" and has to be squeezed down to fit. A 2" hitch won't fit. I think the difference may be caused by either the metric system conversion or it may be the same thinking as when we buy wood: a 1x2 is really 3/4" x 1-1/2".

[S. Heisley]

Sharon,

What I would do after having that tongue member replaced, is weld a couple pieces of angle iron across the top. That would prevent the torsional twisting that you had on your original tongue member. But weld it, unlike what this picture shows...

Sorta like this:


Mike...

Thanks, Mike. Once I get the tongue back in shape, I will consider your suggestion as part of what I will do to make the tongue stronger.

[S. Heisley]

Slowcowboy,

Thanks for your comments. I plan to put the tongue jack in the stronger center tongue support area.

[asianflava]

I love the pneumatic caster. I want to get me one.

[doug hodder]

Sharon...somehow I didn't get what your problem was from the pic you brought up to the Dam...now I can see it. I'm no engineer or expert, but have seen this issue before on trailers. I don't know what your tongue weight is, but as a rule of thumb, any tongue jack works better the closer it is centered to the trailer, especially if it has a caster on it and you are wanting to roll on it.

Trying to roll a trailer with a caster off center, puts a lot of strain on the members, the taller the jack (from ground to frame), the more leverage. Like I tried to show you, a piece of material to tie in the jack mount member to the center strut helps a bunch. I'd find another place to mount a spare rather than on the front of the tongue. That will give you more space to mount a jack to, closer to the coupler.

I'm sure others will disagree with my assessment...but that's how I see it. I'd get with a welder to have a new piece of material installed. Get a new piece of the same thing, with no extras to support it...you'll get the same results. Doug

[S. Heisley]

Thanks, Doug.

I have been in contact with Red Trailer and have ordered the replacement part. The fellow that I talked to said you'd be surprised at the number of times people do what I did and have that happen. There are three members on the tongue and those side members are not made for carrying the weight of the tongue jack and trailer...I know that now. The 'A' portions of the tongue are only meant to be used for stabilization and the tongue jack must be installed on the center member of the tongue.

Also, I have ordered the tongue jack that Steve Cox recommended so that I will have room on that center member for it.