1982 1500 Play-Mor questions

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1982 1500 Play-Mor questions

Postby papmom35 » Sat May 07, 2011 9:17 am

Im not sure if this is the right place to be posting this so please feel free to move it. I just want to be sure that I've thought of everything before I go pick up my Play-Mor in a couple of weeks.

First an update: By sometime today my baby should have been towed over to my friend's yard by the former owner. She is away for the weekend but when she gets back she will tow it across the street to the RV place so they can replace the tires/wheels and bearings. Not sure why we didn't just have the owner tow it right to the RV place??? But that was the arrangements made on my behalf. I've spoken with the RV place and Dave will go over the trailer thoroughly to make sure there are no surprises. I'll be in contact with him after the looksie. I've also contacted my ins. co and have the RMV1 form to bring to the RMV next week so I have plates to bring up with me. So, here are my questions:

1. I've spoken with my mechanic and I'll be bringing my Outback to them on Thursday to have the tow package and antisway bar installed. He said he can only install the antisway bar if the frame is an A frame construction. Aren't they all Aframes? Anyway, I sent him pics and the video my friend took by sticking her phone under the frame. He said it looked like an A frame to him.

2. What happens if I get the swaybar installed and it turns out it's NOT an Aframe trailer?

3. He's putting the heavy duty tow package on - the 3500 lb one. I was reading on some website that everyone should have the 5000lb tow package. Is this true?

4. Mechanic spoke with Subaru dealer about the extra trannie cooling system I had requested be installed and dealer said I don't need it fo the weight I will be towing (dry=1480lb). He said the cooling system in these Outbacks is pretty heavy duty and as long as I'm not traversing mountain ranges I should be OK. I'm only planning to travel around New England at this point.

5. We decided not to go with trailer brakes as I'm well below the MA limit of 2000lbs. Should I pray everytime I tow this thing? Should I save up my money and eventually get brakes installed?

6. The specs from Play-Mor says that the ball is a 2" ball but the owner quite clearly told me its got a 1 7/8 " ball on it so that's what we're putting on for a receiver. Is it typical for the factory installed ball to be switched out for a smaller one? I just hope I'm telling my mech. the right size!

7. This rig does not have heat as far as I know and definitely doesn't have AC. Is AC very expensive to install? Should I splurge on a portable unit from HD for now or would it be about the same $$ (300) to have the RV place install a rooftop unit?

8. If I stow about 50 lbs of xpens and an easy up plus lounge chairs in the closet that is on one side of the trailer, is that a significant enough amount of weight that I'll unbalance the trailer during towing? Should I be stowing these things on the floor instead?

9. Do all trailers come with a battery? If this one doesn't, what kind should I get? Do I need to keep the fridge cold during travel (well I guess the answer is yes if I don't want food to spoil!!)? I guess what I mean is do most people with a fridge keep it on during travel or is it just something you turn on when you hook up to shore power and you keep food in coolers other times? There may be a number of agility trials I go to where they allow campers but there are no hookups at all. Not sure how to prepare for this type of camping? do I need a generator and isn't that going to significantly increase my tow weight?

10. Any other words of advice or tips for this newbie?

I guess if I go into foreclosure after all this I can live in my camper!! $>
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Postby Cliffmeister2000 » Sat May 07, 2011 9:37 am

Wow! That's awesome that you are getting a new toy! Pictures, please!

As far as brakes go, if you are towing a 1,400 lb trailer with something as small (albeit mighty) as an Outback, I would get brakes.

I assume by A Frame, they mean the tongue of the trailer is an A, rather than a straight tube. Mine is a straight tube.

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This is an A Tongue.

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I have never towed with an anti-sway setup, so I don't know how they affect towing.

If the ball size is wrong, it is easy and inexpensive to correct on the tow vehicle side. Have Dave check this for you.

Have you checked the electrical connection? Some are 4 wire, some 6, and some 7. There are adapters if your TV is 6 or 7 and the trailer is 4.

I have A/C in my Weekender, but have only used it twice. Both times in desert campgrounds on my way to better climates. Most folks don't have A/C. As my friend Steve Mason says, "If I need A/C, I'm in the wrong campground!" However, you might have humidity to contend with. Not so much in the Southwest.

Most trailers do not come with a battery. A battery will only keep a fridge cool if the fridge was designed to run on 12 volts (Norcold or Engle, a few others). Even if designed to run on 12V, the cooling capacity at 12V is limited. Ice works better. While you have it at the RV place, have Dave check the fridge and tell you what it's capabilities are.

Advice? Pack light, have fun, and post pictures! :thumbsup:
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Postby papmom35 » Sat May 07, 2011 12:06 pm

thanks Cliff for the response! Really appreciate your wisdom. May I ask why you don't use an antisway bar? For some reason I thought that was a must even tho my mechanic didn't seem to think so but then he said that at 15 feet long it might not be a bad idea. If I don't get a swaybar, maybe I can put that $150 towards brakes instead?

I think the fridge in the camper is a dorm size fridge you can get at Walmart. One of the reasons I'm concerned about not having AC is that my dogs will be in the camper during agility trials which here in New England can get pretty hot and sticky in July and August and a lot of times there is no shade to set up under. Of course if there isn't any shore power than its a moot point. I do have a sun shade that I can put up on the easy up and on my car and a heavy duty Ryobi fan. The outback is set up so that they can be in their crates or in the xpens. Guess I'll see how it goes later on this summer and make decisions for next year.

I only have a few pics right now and they are no great quality as they are what the seller took with his phone to send to me. When I go get her I'll take better ones. Here's what I have:

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Postby JuneBug » Sat May 07, 2011 6:09 pm

Looks like a perfect happy little trailer in great shape! Looks like it may even have a hardwood floor.
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Postby Wimperdink » Sat May 07, 2011 8:59 pm

papmom35 wrote: If I don't get a swaybar, maybe I can put that $150 towards brakes instead?


Great plan! :thumbsup:
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Postby 2bits » Sat May 07, 2011 11:47 pm

Looks like a neat trailer. My mom has a Play-Mor that she is giving me to re-do as soon as I am able.

The only reason I can think of for someone recommending a 5000lb tow package when you'll only be towing 1500lbs is some man who thinks woof woof get the biggest... Your Outback could probably not even tow 5000lbs, 3500 is already over kill. One thing to keep in mind is the weight if a 5000lb tow package. That in itself is HEAVY! You'll be towing around a big tow package half the time! So in my personal opinion don't go overkill. Bigger isn't always better.

The trailer wasn't manufactured with trailer brakes because the manufacturer (and the laws/codes) allowed it to be manufactured without them, that is because they were not "needed" but were probably available as an option. Just don't go bananas the first few outings and get a feel for the braking. Try some sudden braking (within reason). If you don't notice it back there that much, then I would not worry about it. If you feel the trailer is "pushing" you too much when you brake, then remember you can add brakes at any time!

Don't worry about the trailer ball size either, just look at it, and it should be marked, then get the ball that matches the hitch. On a 30 year old trailer lots of things could of happened, none of them terrible. Plus your RV center can verify the size.

I would not sweat 50lbs. The closet is probably right over the axle too which is the best place. If the trailer acts funny while towing you can also move "ballast" from front to rear and vise versa to help balance the trailer.

Alot of people put window units in these trailers. If you don't mind the look, you can get you a $99 unit and put it in the rear or front window. For heat, remember this isn't a big RV, a little $22 Wally world heater might work great. My tiny one is always set on low in the winter and blasts me out in my teardrop!

You might ask yourself where you will be doing your camping. I have camped only once outside of a park with plug in power. I have never had a fridge, so that might be a good point except that anything with a compressor like air conditioning or a fridge will not have much battery life at all due to the dray that have. I have often wondered about that myself. I wonder if people pack a cooler and transfer to the fridge once they have arrived? I guess it saves on ice from leaving in a cooler.

A swaybar is always a good idea as is a transmission cooler. I do not know anything about the Outback however, but that the Subaru has a solid reliability record. Swaybar=Go, transmission cooler= depends how often you will camp..

I hope this helps!
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Fellow Play-Mor 1500 Owner

Postby Engineer Guy » Sun May 08, 2011 1:01 am

I snagged an '89 [or '88?] Play-Mor M 1500 a few months ago, and am about to take it out. Here's some thoughts. See Album TT pix linked below to understand some of my assumptions.

1. Your pic indicates it's an A Frame, as seen from the Trailer Ball Coupler going back to the TT 'Box'. >1/2 way back on each of those A Frames is where Sway Bars connect; that's likely the basis for your Mechanic's statement re: needing an A Frame config. I don't have them installed; no need.

2. A non-event, given the Cellphone pic supplied.

3. The option of a 5,000 lb. Towing Package is not applicable, and would be money-wasting overkill. See Outback Towing capacities linked below. If this Website info is off by a hundred lbs. or so, that's 'in the noise' and of no importance. Go only for the 3,500 lb. package at most.

4. You could first try a tow w/o the Tranny Cooler. My Montero Sport is good for 5,000 lbs Towing conservatively, and has overheated the Tranny at >9,000 [thinner Air] in Summer w/the AC on w/towing a Popup Tent Trailer. Only one way to find out; try it. If you 'burn' the Tranny Fluid from excess heat - you'll smell it and perhaps even see it smoking - and the darkened Fluid and Filter will have to be changed out after you limp home w/AC off. I'm not trying to be dramatic; that's sort of what winds up happening. You want to pull over and leave the Engine running to cycle and cool the Tranny Fluid. The full story is that my Tranny Pan was 'undersized'. A larger one was installed by the Dealer @ n/c to quietly 'fess up to the atypical Factory design mistake.

Rather than the likely-present 'Idiot Light', you could likely do a little homework and install a 'real' AT Temp Gauge down the line to first monitor Tranny temps. With 'Real World' Camping gear stowed, you'll be close to the Outback Tow Specs below.

5. In the latest go-round here, I weighed in on the 'gotta have Brakes' side. It's about control on curves, etc., to me, since hitting the Brakes on curves [not tracking in a straight line] to avoid a Deer at dusk is Real Life as I know it. At the very least, stopping distance will be longer w/o TT Brakes. To add them, the Manf. and Model of the Axle must be known, typically, and whether there's a Backing Plate on already for the Brakes to bolt to must be confirmed via pix. My $0.02: put your Moola towards TT Brakes. You can fatigue Tow Vehicle [TV] Brakes on curves, and face Mr. Murphy and his Law RIGHT when you need full stopping power. Rock in the Road, etc..

6. In the casual World of 'Standards', that dry weight of TT could merit a 1 7/8" Ball or a 2" Ball. Do a dry fit to a Ball [even if unmounted] and confirm what you need. My heavier M 1500 has a 2" TT Factory-installed Coupler [female 'Ball' end]. The Owner might have USED a 1 7/8" Ball; that wouldn't be the first time. You don't want slop or a misfit, but this is very easily confirmed with a quickie dry fit experiment. The Ball diameter size is sometimes stamped on the TT Coupler.

7. A Furnace and Factory-installed Fridge have external, openable Doors, and exterior Vents. I see none in your Cellphone pix. I see no A/C. The 30 Amp Plug/Cable is just right of the Entry Door. The fresh Water fill is further toward the front end of the Box on that same Passenger side. As with mine, your Fresh Water Tank and 115 VAC -> 12 VDC Power Supply is either under the Dinette Seat, or under the Couch [where my Tank is]. Visually chase those down for confirmation by lifting Cushions and Wood Panels

I'm a Dog Lover, so I'd consider converting a Window to accept an A/C as many have done. Wal Mart A/Cs [like 'Haier' Brand] are used, and other folks can recommend accordingly. One fellow loves his Frigidaire A/C.

A Honda 2000 is often the quiet Genny of choice, and can be had new for $1,000- at Farm/Ranch Stores, or other Suppliers. Note the light Genny weight. Rooftop A/C will be MUCH more than anything from Home Despot. 4x $$ or more, if new...

TT Walls/Ceilings are most often 2x2s that measure out at lesser dimensions [1.5" x 1.5"]. Fiberglass 'stuffed' into available cavities nets low Insulation R Values like R-3 or R-4 on a 'good' day at the Factory during installation. Sun beating on TTs really heats them. I have a 12 Volt Fan for our Pooch, but A/C is needed for Dogs. TTs can really become sweatboxes, but Fans and shaded spots in cool Seasonal temps will help. Only ~15 mins of overheated Pooch can cause Heat Stroke. Where I grew up in the low Desert, there were cases every year of 'Palm Springs Poodle'. ~15 mins in the Car while Mom Shops and Fifi cannot recover. Sad, stupid, and it pisses me off because it is SO easily understood, and so avoidable. OK, down off my Soapbox...

8. My guess is that stowing those weights won't matter. The larger issue is usually where [heavier] things are stowed front/back of of the Axle. With Water weighing ~8.3 lbs/Gallon, many of us wait until we're near the Campsite before filling the Fresh Water Tank. Mine's a 30 Gallon, or ~250 lbs., not to mention 'sloshing' action. I THINK you have an Electric [not Mechnical] Water Pump, but a clearer Sink Faucet pic will tell. Find/confirm that Water Pump near the Water Tank, most likely. Mine's the very-standard 'Shur Flo' Brand. They turn on/off automatically with need for flow.

9. Batteries are very nice; I can't imagine not having one [or two]. From the pic, I can't tell if there's an A Frame 'plate' to hold a Battery or not. A 'Forensic' look for Battery Wiring will tell the tale. My Wiring goes through the front cross section Frame piece through a Grommet. There's lot of Wizards here to chime in. First, confirm what Power Supply/Converter you have by Manf. and Model Number off a Plate on that 'Box'. Archived Documentation will provide details, especially if you have Factory Docs w/Subcomponent Manuals [I don't]. Standard mounting location is usually just in front of the TT Box, on the A Frame. Factory wiring to an OEM Battery [or not] will be obvious, by existence, and by age.

Mine has good ole round, Glass 3 AG Auto Fuses under the Couch for Stop, Running and Turn Lamps. Other Fuses or Breakers will indicate number of Circuits in the Power Supply 'Box', and other Factory-installed details.

Like a 2x4 not actually being 2" x 4", the 1500 reference is to my TT Box being 14' 2", sans A Frame or rear Bumper. It's rounded up to 15'. Mine has 2,400 hard stamped on the A Frame front; the dry weight. If TTs actually weigh what the Dry Weight spec is, then I'm a handsome and slender Underwear Model! Dry weights are known to be low-balled. Your actual Tow weight is likely closer to 2,000 lbs. Weighing the loaded TT on a Truck Scale for a few bucks is the ultimate answer. 'Stuff' and people and Dogs loaded into the Outback also total up to the maximum weight capacity spec'ed out.

One desirable Tongue Load [downward on the Ball] spec is ~10% of TT weight. I'm guessing ~200 lbs. in your case. Chock the TT Wheels and weigh that Tongue load on a Bathroom Scale with a Wood Block, etc., making the TT fairly level. Proper loading prevents 'wander'. If Wind, passing Semi Trucks, or 'grooved' Pavement causes 'excess' TT wander to your taste, install Sway Bars then. I don't predict you'll need them, but it's your Tow; not mine. Location of stored items in the TT can help adjust Tongue load.

My pal's 15' Fleetwood of almost the same year is listed at 2,600 lbs. or so. However, we both have Factory Fridges; Grey and Black Water Tanks supporting full Bathrooms; mine has A/C; etc.. Given that about all lil TTs back then were made the same, with the same materials and often similar Floor layouts, weight info can be inferred from standard Construction techniques. At first I 'scoffed' at your 'light' dry weight value, but the pix supplied later above make that number somewhat believable. Once all set up, go out on an isolated Asphalt, then a Dirt, Road and hit the Brakes in varying degrees to see what happens re: stopping distance and handling. Safety first, of course.

With a keen eye examining similar TTs for sale on Craig's List, or Archival or TT Club info on line, you can discern a LOT. Take and post lots of pix in an Album here, and we can chime in 'authoritatively' based on visual data supplied by you.

Play-Mor is still in Business and still privately held. There's not much info around on them, vs. my Avion TT. Play-Mor's reportedly gone with building larger TTs, and other Trailers. My investigation of my TT 'sample of 1' suggests their materials, techniques and quality are at least average or a little above similar TTs of that time and price point. For example, it's kinda weird to see 'only' large, square 'U' Staples holding Framing together, but that's how it was done. Some 'flex' is desirable in the TT Box. LOTS of House Framing is held together by parallel Nails that pull apart 'easily'.

Good fun awaits!

EG's Play-Mor Trailer Pix

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Postby papmom35 » Sun May 08, 2011 6:49 am

Thanks EG and Thomas for all the wonderful info!! I'm a little frightened that I am going to be too close to my max towing weight now! I guess on the weigh home (sorry, couldn't resist!), we'll try to find an open weigh station and see what the truth is. I'm really hoping my friend will get the rig across the street to the RV place on Monday. That way I can have a lot of the questions you bring up answered before I take my car in on Thursday to have the tow package installed. I wish I could afford to trade my car in for a newer model like a 2006 as that extra 700 lbs towing capacity would make me feel SO much better!! But I'm stuck for now. I'm almost a year into paying my dad back for buying the car for me and the payments aren't on my record and there is no interest involved so can't very well get financing through a dealer at this point. Fingers crossed.
I think I'll trade the sway bar for the brakes and hope the brakes aren't that expensive. EG I totally agree with you about the dogs in the car thing in summer. I get soooo pissed off when I see people leave their dogs in without the AC on!! My dogs rarely go on errands with me and then only to stores that allow them in. I'll look into seeing if I can find a used Honda 2000 genny on Craig's List so I can run a window AC.
I really appreciate all the time it took you guys to reply to me! Wealth of info! As soon as I get her home I'll take lots of pics and post them in my Album. I will probably only do 2 or 3 trips this year, one of which I'm hoping will be Ross Hill in CT in August with the TJers.
Enjoy your Sunday!!
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Postby eamarquardt » Sun May 08, 2011 8:22 am

Some thoughts:

Your outback weighs about 3500#. Fact.
It is designed, IMHO, to carry and stop maybe 4 250# passengers and maybe 250# of cargo or about 1250# above the base weight of the vehicle.

Your trailer weighs 1480# dry. Fact. Loaded and "wet" it's gonna weigh MORE. Fact. You've mentioned 50# of stuff, adding a battery (maybe another 60#), and cookware (cast iron?), bbq, food, ice, propane, etc adds up quickly. Fact.

Factor in the weight of you, your passenger(s) and other "stuff" and IMHO your really pushing the envelope.

Brakes are cheap insurance and IF you ever have a problem at least you'll know you did all you could to be safe. Fact/IMHO?

A 3500# hitch will be fine, IMHO.

Hope this helps you decide.

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Postby papmom35 » Sun May 08, 2011 9:56 am

thanks Gus. I'm definitely leaning towards the brakes after reading many different responses. If I have to take out a new credit card to do so than that's what I'll do and worry about paying it off later. I have about $1400 cash to spend on everything right now: tires, wheels, bearings, tow package, inspection plus a new brake job for my Outback. It could be close. I'll know more when I talk to the RV guy this week.
Well, my eyes have definitely been opened and I guess I need to plan on trading the Outback for something more substantial as soon as possible. For the present time however, I will try to travel as lightly as possible. No propane for one thing.
going to go for walk now and try not to stress over this anymore.
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Postby dmb90260 » Sun May 08, 2011 1:08 pm

I have seen a lot of vintage trailers and few have a/c units hanging out a window. The windows were not made to carry that load and constant shaking when driving can lead to leaks around the window. One solution I have seen is mounting the unit on a slide so it travels inside the trailer and is put out when on site. Others have been installed in the space below the back bed and a couple have been "built-in" closets or cabinets. Those will require some kind of venting, the a/c does generate a lot of heat.

I have a couple small portable fans and a Fantastic fan in the ceiling. If it looks like the place I am going will be extra hot, I do have one of the small a/c units which I will place in the doorway, mainly for my dogs. I just get another big tonic. :icedtea:
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Postby papmom35 » Sun May 08, 2011 1:38 pm

thanks Dennis for the AC info. I've heard a lot about the fantastic fans and wonder if I should price them out with installation. I also like that idea about the slide out shelf-Ibet my dad or brother could do that for me. I do worry about my dogs. i'll be pricing out the portable AC units as well. Hopefully I don't have to do anything about it right away. I want to take my time and really research all options. I can always put the dogs in the car with the AC on if it gets really obnoxiously hot. I do have my easy up and a huge shade cloth (the silver one) plus a portable fan in case we set up by the ring and vehicles are not allowed.
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Towing with a small car.

Postby Wild Bill » Mon May 09, 2011 10:23 pm

I agree with most of engineer guys points with the exception of #4. Installing a transmission cooler is mandatory, Trying it to see if it burns up the fluid is NOT a good Idea and could leave you stranded in a bad place in need of a $100 dollar tow for your car and another for your trailer. Plus a $2000 dollar trans rebuild. Much cheaper to have a cooler installed in the first place. I would still Idle down for 5 minutes at any rest stop to let things cool down a bit before you shut them down. Especially if you have a turbo. Vehicles with factory tow packages already come with all this from the factory and then some. Cars that are not offerd new with a factory tow option when new, can be fitted with non factory aftermarket parts. Brakes on the trailer should be used with such a small car. These cars are not designed to stop that kind of load. The brake pads ar tiny compared to a full size heavier car, van or Pickup truck. They will wear much faster. Be sure your car is in tip top a-1 condition. Always err on the side of safety. Good luck to you. Bill
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Postby 2bits » Mon May 09, 2011 10:49 pm

+1 on the window unit not in the window, I forgot about that. To address that, plus the heat issue (and to avoid creative back side venting), you might consider mounting it low, inside a cabinet and using this slide out for when you want to use it.

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Damage-free Testing

Postby Engineer Guy » Tue May 10, 2011 3:51 am

Sorry if my point above in #4 was too terse or written so fast it lent to misunderstanding. I DEFINITELY am not in favor of the 'Scientific Method' test of smoking the Tranny. Hence, my 1st person warning of what expensive and undesirable outcome awaits. When I suggested to 'try it', I meant to write only that one should take out the familiar Vehicle and see first how it behaves, certainly stopping short of any damage threshold.

The original conundrum appeared to me to be getting advice 'x' from one person: the OEM Tranny will do the job towing to published capacity. Yet, the tow weights and numbers, and the Vehicle capacity, are possibly not adding up. However, if an experienced/familiar resource is saying the Tranny is sufficient, I guess that assumption is the starting point. Try a modest tow outing first. Me, I'd add a Tranny Cooler preemptively, but the Budget here might not allow.

With there having to be the usual fitting already for an Idiot Light Sending Unit on the Outback, first putting on a Gauge [and the req'd Sending Unit] might be an easy retrofit option. And, a Tranny Gauge would be handy in any case IF the Budget allows, w/ or w/o Tranny Cooler eventually installed.

W/ or w/o a 'real' Gauge installed, Gears save us many us. In some other Forums, folks tell of towing just fine in 2 Gear, etc, right at Vehicle capacity. I use my Auto Tranny Gears about every Tow, for torque while climbing, and as an Engine Brake on Mountain Pass descents. As the Bumper Sticker around here says: Easy Does It.

NICE job above on the A/C w/Slides. Just what I envisioned to address the original issue of keeping the Pooches chillin'.
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