relocating axle

[chiliz]

Hello,

I just realized that according to benroy plans on the HF 1800 the axle should be relocated.
Is this a cosmetic call? what would it happen if I leave the axle placed where was originally located?

Thanks

[PaulC]

Chiliz, relocation of the axle is all to do with balance and tongue weight. If you leave the axle as is I would imagine that it would be very uncomfortable to tow.
Cheers
Paul
PS Check andrews site (angib) for all the explanation you should need.

[chiliz]

Paul C,
Why would it be uncomfortable to tow? the manufacturer made the call when it was designed didn't it?
Perhaps the current axle location could affect going through the door...

[angib]

chiliz,

Where the trailer manufacturer put the wheels on a utility trailer doesn't matter too much - it's how the user loads the trailer each time it's used that determines its balance.

With a teardrop, you will be building a lot of the weight in a fixed position, so you won't have the option of moving much weight around to get the balance right. In addition, most teardrops have a galley/kitchen right at the back and that contains quite a weight - so the axle is usually moved back to compensate for this.

If you don't put too much weight in the galley (or are willing to take it out when towing) and you add a tongue box on the front to carry some weight there, some people have got by with leaving the axle in its original position.

Andrew

[Sonetpro]

Paul C,
Why would it be uncomfortable to tow? the manufacturer made the call when it was designed didn't it?
Perhaps the current axle location could affect going through the door...

chiliz, If you have too much weight in the back of a trailer and not enough tounge weight it will wag back and forth like a tail on a dog. Not only unpleasant but very unsafe to tow.

[PaulC]

Thanks for that Andrew & sonetpro. I knew what I meant I used all the info available on this forum to build mine, so it went without saying why the axle is situated further back.
Cheers
Paul

[JunkMan]

chiliz,

Towing a trailer without enough tounge weight (ie. having the axel too far forward in a tear) is VERY scary it will dance all over the road, and be very hard to control. Typically you want at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tounge. Not having enough weight on the tounge can also cause coupler failure, since the coupler latch is designed to keep the coupler from coming off when it hits a bump, but normally gravity keeps the coupler on the ball. Without enough weight on the coupler, the latch is doing all of the work, and it can fail.

[Ira]

While we're on the subject, and after all of this time, can someone once again direct me to, was it Andrew's, spreadsheet on tongue weights and such?

I've seen it a dozen times but just don't understand it. (What a surprise.)

In other words, when I'm finished building my 4 by 8 with axle 36" from the rear and galley all outfitted--with 6 cases of Bud in the truck so no weight there--what is the idiot's guide to determining my proper tongue weight?

Maybe I wasn't paying attention before, but more likely I was and it was just over my head, but I have to know whether that Bud should then go in the galley or the front of the cabin.

[Micro469]

I know all about loading a trailer wrong. When I was rebuilding my shed, I loaded 10 4x8 sheets of plywood on a 4x5 trailer. that meant 3' hanging over the back. When I got home, I decided to uncouple the trailer before unloading it . BIG mistake. As soon as the coupler was loose, the front end shot up like a rocket, stopped at the safety chains ( i didn't take them off ) and slammed down on the spoiler of the car. Hanging on to the toungue, I yelled for my wife to help, she had to come out and move the car forward so that I could push the tongue down to uncouple the safety chains. That was scary.....Was lucky tho, only a small scratch on the spoiler, can hardly see it...

[cracker39]

Ira, have you had your trailer weighed? If not, I would load it for camping, and get it on a scale. Or, you could use the bathroom scale technique to get a fairly accurate weight. Then, put the coupler on the scale to see what it weighs. If the tongue weight is 10%-15% you should be OK. But, looking at the picture of your TD, I'd say you have at least 10%, and probably 15% or more if that tongue box is as heavy as it looks. With a TD, I wouldn't think having a tongue weight of 20% wouldn't be a problem, as long as it doesn't exceed your hitch limits. With the axle as far back as you have yours, it should tow like a dream.

[Ira]

Ira, have you had your trailer weighed? If not, I would load it for camping, and get it on a scale. Or, you could use the bathroom scale technique to get a fairly accurate weight. Then, put the coupler on the scale to see what it weighs. If the tongue weight is 10%-15% you should be OK. But, looking at the picture of your TD, I'd say you have at least 10%, and probably 15% or more if that tongue box is as heavy as it looks. With a TD, I wouldn't think having a tongue weight of 20% wouldn't be a problem, as long as it doesn't exceed your hitch limits. With the axle as far back as you have yours, it should tow like a dream.

Okay, so is this a plan, Dale? And here are my questions:

1) I have a weigh station right near my boatyard, so that's easy.

2) I get a standard scale and lower the coupler onto it. Correct? (I guess I have to use my bottle jack to bring it back up to extend it back up.) Or can you ALSO do this at a weigh station? Actually unhitch it and just weigh the tongue?

3) My vehicle's hitch limit isn't an issue--long-bed Silverado truck.

4) My tongue box, I think, isn't as heavy as it looks--especially when you consider nothing is going to be stored in there besides paper/blanket goods. Additionally, I have no heavy cabinetry going into the front of the cabin, just a shelf, so aside from the AC, not much weight there.

5) Finally, let's say I go NUTS with galley weight, and it's the OPPOSITE. That my tongue weight is only 9%. (Ain't saying this is going to be the case, just asking.) I now want to store some stuff forward in the cabin, right? To avoid terror and death as Junkman describes?

It's not like once everything is designed and built, that you can change this. So once all is done, first get those raw total and tongue weights, and take it from there.

[bdosborn]

I didn't relocate my axle and the trailer tows great. But, I used Andrews spreadsheet to check my tongue weight. I didn't want to get the trailer built and have problems towing it. Depending on where you put all your stuff, you might not have to move it.
Bruce

[cracker39]

Ira, I'm not the expert here, but I'd think if there is a problem because the tongue weight is less than 10% would depend on the total weight of the trailer, and/or how close the axle is to the center of the trailer. Or, in other words, bad if the center of gravity is toward the front of the trailer, not so bad if the center of gravity is way back on the trailer, like most TDs should be.

With a light trailer, say 600 to 800 lbs, I'd think you'd want at least 10% on the tongue. Still, looking at your axle placement, I still think that you have over 10%. It looks like you have at least 70% of both your cabin weight and frame weight in front of the axle.

My boat trailer has the jack stand within a foot of the coupler. I just lowered the jack stand onto the scale and off the hitch ball to weigh it. That was close enough to the coupler. It might weigh a few more lbs than the scale showed. When I balance my chassis for axle placement, I'll put the coupler on a block of wood on the scale, or put the scale on a block, so the frame will remain fairly level. My boat trailer tongue weight of 250 lbs is about 16% of the total 1600 lbs I estimated that the whole thing weighs. I'm going for less, probably 10% - 12%, on my TTT.

[angib]

Ira,

It sounds like you've got it worked out right to me. Adding Bud to the front of the trailer if it's too light on the hitch will work fine - though you then cannot drink that Bud until you get home.*

Once you've used the bathroom scales to get the trailer loaded right once, you can then calibrate your Human Arm Weight Estimator™, so that it knows what 'about right' feels like - thereafter you pick up the tongue with your hand, while looking pensively into the distance and then you either nod knowingly (earning the undying respect of all men around you) and hitch up, or alternatively you instruct your family to load a precise number of cans of Bud into the trailer (earning the undying, etc, etc). Be gracious and let them use their cans of soda instead of some of the Bud - the weight's the same and it lets them feel involved in such high-flying manly work.

This ensures that it is Terror and Death who have to avoid you, not the other way round.

Andrew

*A friend had a sporty Singer Chamois (think half-scale Corvair) and he kept a crate of full beer bottles in the front trunk to keep the car balanced - he was a brewer, so the beer was free. He said it worked well as, if he drank all the beer, he couldn't tell that the car was no longer stable.......