how many breakers and circuits?

[StandUpGuy]

I have 2 words for you, 'extension cords'.

Way cheaper than the same size romex. Sometimes, you already have some laying around that will work. I used a new 10 ga extension cord as my main power coming in, and an old 12 ga cord that I had laying around is all but gone now that I'm working on my wiring

If your budget is really tight, you might even go to some garage sales and/or, flea markets to look for some used ones.

I actually have a 100' heavy duty extension cord I never use because it is too big.

[StandUpGuy]

But is an extension cord and Romex equivilent to one and other? Even if the wire inside is the same is there not something different with the insulation? With no plugs on either end you would think the Romex would be cheaper. Surely there is a reason for this.

[GuitarPhotog]

Romex is generally solid wire and extension cord is generally stranded wire. The romex I used to wire my porch lights did not have the same insulation around the ground (green) wire as around the hot (black and white) wires.

I don't think romex is more expensive than the same gauge extension cord.

<Chas>

[bobhenry]

Extension cord

[bobhenry]

Plus I got a free power port with mine !







Well so what if I'm cheap ! :roll:

[bobhenry]

I don't think romex is more expensive than the same gauge extension cord.

<Chas>

Todays price at Ace hardware 12-3 romex $1.49 per foot

12 -3 extension cord $ 1.29 per foot

This is off the bulk roll ( cut to your desired length) making it a bit expensive. The 50' - 100' bulk packs are somewhat cheaper.

I pick up my drop cords at garage/yard sales. Good 50'ers for 3 - 5 bucks.
( a 25' 12-3 outdoor extension cord at ace is $34.00)
Those outdoor weatherproof dark green christmas extension cords are all but given away in the after christmas markdown. I guess folks think they will only run christmas lights

[StandUpGuy]

I don't think romex is more expensive than the same gauge extension cord.

<Chas>

Todays price at Ace hardware 12-3 romex $1.49 per foot

12 -3 extension cord $ 1.29 per foot
...

What do you suppose would be the reason for this? In all other products the cheapest price comes from buying the "raw" product. The Romex off the spool should be the cheapest product. Cheapest to transport, no advertising or extra packaging. The extension cord goes through a lot of extra manufacturing: Cut to shorter lengths, plugs at either end and individually packaged. This should be more expensive.

So I look for the reason why. Is the Romex made in the USA and the cords in China? Is the insulation sub par on the extension cord?

Before I wall off an extension cord inside my trailer I wanted to make sure I was not doing something I might later regret.

[Pyrofish]

Some of the difference is the solid (romex) vs stranded (ext cord). Alot cheaper to use stranded.

IIRC, the 10/3 romex at Lowes, in a roll, was almost $2/ft for 50'. The 100' roll was $130. A 100' 10/3 extension cord at Lowes was $133. HOWEVER, a 100' 10/3 extension cord, using my contractor's price at a local supplier was $75. I found a 100' 10/3 extension cord on eBay for $60 delivered. Came with a 3 way head. I only needed 40', so I put a new plug end on it, and now I have my main supply wiring and a 60' 10ga extension cord.

The blue is the extension cord. Almost made me cry to cut it My side cutters wouldn't do it without stripping away the outer insulation first.

The outer insulation on the extension cord looks tougher, and it's packed with paper around the wires to make it more durable. The romex takes up less room, and is staple friendly. The insulation isn't as thick on the romex, but it is more stretchy.

Just what I noticed. I had a 14 ga extension cord laying around that had a cut in the middle. It's been hanging in my shop with both ends cut off for years. Now it's part of my 12v wiring system I ran it for my Fantastic fan, and will probably use it for a few other low amp uses. If I was only planning to have 1 or 2 outlets on a circuit, I would use it to run power for my outlets too.

[StandUpGuy]

Well I do not see any reason not to use the extension cord that I have a boat load of already, as my wiring material. Then I was at the hardware store looking at materials to wire my load center. then it hit me. Why do I want to take 10g wire from the load center to an external plug with a hatch and all only to then buy an RV power cord? Seems kind of well silly in a way. I was thinking I would simply hardwire from the load center, with a 10g 30 amp cord with the appropriate plug on it and leave it coiled up inside cabinet. Then when I arrive simple feed the cord through a cord access port and plug directly into the power outlet at the facility. Seems much simpler. Is there something wrong with this?

[StandUpGuy]

So from all of the great input from all I have formulated my general plan. Does this make sense?

I am buying a two position load center. I am going to hard wire a 30 amp cord directly to that box and install a cord access through the wall to the outside to plug that cord into the power source.

I am going to instal a 15 amp breaker on one position and a tandem 15 amp on the other position, for a total of 3- 15 amp breakers.

One breaker will have the hot water heater which is a 12.5 amp appliance

Breaker two will have the cube fridge and the microwave.

Breaker three will have lights and an outlet.

I am going to wire each of these circuits with a 14g extension cord (might be 12g, not sure)


Is this OK?

[Pyrofish]

As long as your runs aren't very long from the panel to the load, 14 ga sounds fine.

I went 12 on most of mine because my trailer is 20', and some of my runs are 40' once I go up and down the walls and half way across the trailer.

As far as the cord coming in, no reason not to run it that way if you have a storage spot for it. My only concern would be if the external cord was damaged, how difficult would it be to replace? It'll def save you some money on the power inlet and plugs though.

[StandUpGuy]

As long as your runs aren't very long from the panel to the load, 14 ga sounds fine.

I went 12 on most of mine because my trailer is 20', and some of my runs are 40' once I go up and down the walls and half way across the trailer.

As far as the cord coming in, no reason not to run it that way if you have a storage spot for it. My only concern would be if the external cord was damaged, how difficult would it be to replace? It'll def save you some money on the power inlet and plugs though.

My electrified area of my trailer is very small. My longest run will be about 6'.

I am providing a cabinet for electrical and plumbing with good access. The cord could simply coil up in the bottom of the cabinet. replacing a damaged cord would be a breeze.

[StandUpGuy]

I totally forgot about the AC unit. Guess I will need two tandem 15 amp breakers.

[Engineer Guy]

Besides 'sparking' around with stuff since Ham Radio at age 12 - as with other grown-up Geeks on here - I thought I'd chime with some minutiae based on [over]wiring my own House w/o Code violations.

1. 2 Tandem 15 Amp'ers sound good. Of course, you never mix Breakers and Panels between Vendors; they each have different form factors. It's also smart to not recycle a 'very old' Box w/new Breakers for this same reason. I was going to suggest a Small Panel w/2 Tandems before it was posted above; a sound plan.

2. An Electrical Pro Contractor pal uses good ole Square D Homeline Series on all his Projects, and does a lot of huge Yuppie Houses with 2 - 200 Amp Panels, etc.. Insane amounts of Electricity wiring in some. Hey, 7,500 sq. ft. Houses @ 8,000' elevation w/Home Theaters; Elevators [yep]; Electrically-heated Driveways and Roof edges to melt Snow; dual A/Cs or Heat Pumps; and 4,000 Bottle temp-controlled Wine Cellars suck some Amps! He's also upgraded some Panels in my modest 'Hood with the same Brand due to Big Box pricing and superb reliability.

FYI, Square D also has one Series that breakers DC in the same Breaker form factor.

Breakers aren't 'binary' and don't trip at 15.1 Amps. They work from thermal 'overload' on a sliding scale. At 110% of rated load, they trip in a leisurely 'x' seconds. At 125% or 150% of rated load, they trip much faster. Being thermal-based, ambient temp matters some. So, in the theoretical scenario where a nearly-maxed out Breaker running 2 Appliances doesn't trip in one scenario [Winter] and does in another [Summer], that could be what's going on. Not that your proposed design will have this issue [it won't]; I'ze just sayin'...

3. On the Wire Charts and Specs, there's a sort of identical 'sliding scale' on Wire Specs. #14 AWG [or #12, etc.] actually will handle more current, but is conservatively rated for the Specs we're all throwing around above in enclosed Walls @ 100% duty cycle and spec'ed temp 'x'.

#12 AWG Solid is tough to manipulate. As with any Wire size, #14 can handle MUCH longer wiring runs than you're contemplating. So, you still have ratings 'conservatism' or leeway built into your design while using all-#14 AWG Wire. There's even Specs 'gimme' on ambient temperature, and whether Wires are run individually in free air [better ambient cooling] or bundled together [as in Portable Cordage a.k.a. Extension Cords]. These are fine points that won't affect your design at all, but worth knowing to not over-build or lose sleep.

4. Some folks on here really like stranded vs. solid Wire in moving 'things', so cutting up Cordage makes sense. Also, it has tougher outer Insulation by Code and by manufacturing convention. Of course, any Idiot knows you can't use green Xmas Cords any other time of the year!

5. Take care in stripping Wire Insulation to keep all stranded Wires intact. Wrap the twisted strands carefully around Outlet Screws to obtain full surface contact area to lower contact resistance. Cut off lil strays, if any. Always provide a lil wire 'slack' to de-tension all connections. I use Electrician's 'Pliers' with pre-set 'stops' for #12 and #14 Wire. They strip Insulation w/o nicking Copper.

The install pictured above looks mighty macho, and worth following technique-wise. Who wants to muck with failures inside finished Walls?

6. My TTT, and most others, use beefy #10 - 30 Amp Portable Cordage Cable w/integral Park Pedestal 'Cat's Eye' Connector that then wires straight into the TTT Power Center. Mine coils up inside adjacent to my Sink. That's a time-tested way to go. Some RVers consider the lil TTT side panel pass-through to be a Mouse intrusion 'bottleneck'. In other cases, some folks - and I might do this - install a weather-proof, Marine-grade Twist Lok to eliminate the Mouse hole infirmity, and allow bulky Cable storage elsewhere. A pro RVer tells me of some RV Cords now being cut off of Big Rigs in storage, all for the Copper to sell! But, that's not a concern of mine, having safe storage House-side.

If it's an issue, note now in your design that 30 Amp RV and Generator Connector outputs are different. Each have their own convention: 'Cat's Eye' vs. Twist Lok. You would want to wire a RV Park Pedestal 30 Amp Connector onto the #10 Cable, and then adapt that to a Genny output, as seen on any Genny example w/outputs >20 Amps.

[bobhenry]

. Of course, any Idiot knows you can't use green Xmas Cords any other time of the year!

I knew it ! I knew it !

They DO only work in December