Tire Failure - Blowout!

[Shadow Catcher]

Had a discussion with an acquaintance at church today, he was in the upper food chain with Goodyear prior to his retirement. We had a 'discussion' concerning trailer tires and Marathons in particular and his comment is that virtually all ST trailers tires are made in China and Chinese tires are "crap", but getting better.
His recommendation is to take both tires back to a Goodyear dealer and file a property loss. This should be done also when damage is caused by the tire failure. As covered earlier when running hot they need more pressure and he also mentioned filling with Nitrogen.
Back to my last doubting Thomas issue, using car tires in place of trailer tires, A) you can get ones made in a country other than China and certainly there are a lot of off roader's using the same tire on their trailer that they use on their 4X4. B) Trailer tires seem to be very marginal in their engineering and ratings.

[angib]

B) Trailer tires seem to be very marginal in their engineering and ratings.

Slightly away from Bruce's situation, I think most commercial trailers have tires that loaded right up to their maximum capacity (presumably to save the manufacturer the cost, and to a lesser extent space, of larger wheels/tires) if the owner sticks by what is in the handbook (that they haven't read), and well over their rated capacity in practice.

If most car/truck tires were run all the time at over 90% of their capacity, more of them would blow out too.

[Larry C]

Back to my last doubting Thomas issue, using car tires in place of trailer tires, A) you can get ones made in a country other than China and certainly there are a lot of off roader's using the same tire on their trailer that they use on their 4X4. B) Trailer tires seem to be very marginal in their engineering and ratings.

Good points...
Are Teardrop trailers a different breed of cat when we think of the proper tires to use? Unlike utility trailers, our mostly light weight trailers have max weights that are mostly predetermined, where a UT has ever changing loads.

If you follow what is written about trailer tires, it seems bias ply trailer tires are a better choice because they help limit sway. Auto tires have too many negatives for trailer use to be appropriate according to the recommendations.

This discussion and resulting links to sites with recommendations, has me rethinking, and wondering what is my best choice for a truly light weight build of 500-600 loaded Tear.

My original thinking was a torsion axle rated very close to the loaded limit of the trailer to help keep the trailer from bouncing, and using radial car tires to soften the suspension even more, but after reading the tire tutorials, I am thoroughly confused

I want to use either 13" or 14" wheels, would I be better off using bias ply trailer tires instead of car tires, and tweaking the axle rating to control bounce, or are car tires really appropriate for a light weight Tear.

Larry C

[bdosborn]

If you follow what is written about trailer tires, it seems bias ply trailer tires are a better choice because they help limit sway. Auto tires have too many negatives for trailer use to be appropriate according to the recommendations.

Most trailers have tandem axles and the tires are subjected to a lot of side force around corners. Supposedly, the ST has sidewalls that are reinforced to handle it. Teardrops are single axle and aren't subject to the side forces of a tandem axle. There are lots of people running car tires on their tears and I haven't heard of any problems with blow outs. I think tears are so light it doesn't present a significant load for most tires. A 205/75R14 has a typical rating of around 1300#, plenty for a teardrop but marginal for the Boxcar.

I think my problem was threefold; a) older tires b) marginal capacity c) 101F heat. I haven't had *any* sway issues with radials, I don't think that's a problem with a light trailer. It does appear to me that the big RVs have blowout troubles when their tires are close to the maximum load limit. I've read a lot of posts from guys that went to light truck tires with about +20% spare capacity and their tire problems went away. That's the approach I've taken with the Kumhos.

Bruce

[Wolffarmer]

I am running 13" radial tires on my teardrop. Have about 12000 miles on them now. they where installed May 2007. I have not had problems and I do not plan to change my ways. When they are replace I will put radial car tires back on. I am just grumpy that way.

A tire setting on a dealers shelve/owners garage will not deteriorate because of UV rays. They get darn little UV light there. What they really deteriorate from is the evaporation of solvents they use in the formula they call rubber, which it is not. I have tractor tires that are probably 50 years old. No serious cracking because of UV rays and tractors are seldom shedded. The plastic trim in your Tow vehicle also cracks mostly because of evaporation of solvents. I have worked on a 1950 Bently. I was adjusting the valves and I did not realize that the valve cover was a plastic material until after I had removed it. Those brits made it right, was still going good after 61 years. Solvents are added to make manufacturing easier and cheaper. And it has been proven time and time again that we will, as a mass, always buy the less costly item no matter the quality.

I have heard that slathering Armer all on a tires side wall helps extend the life. They claim it replaces the lost solvents or some mumbo jumbo. Probably have to spend a lot on Armer all not mention time to make much of a difference. And don't put it on the tread of a braked or powered tire. The stuff is slick. Probably would not hurt on the tread of an non braked trailer tire like mine but I can't be bothered.

Randy

[Ratkity]

I'm glad no one was hurt in the blow out.

I have nothing to add about the tire choices.

I will say that I had a friend who lovingly polished his vinyl top and inside dash of his old Dodge Charger with armor all on a near-daily basis and after two years, he had horrid cracks in both top and dash. The way the car was parked and handled had not changed as his parents had bought it new (this was when I was in H.S.... a long long time ago!). From then on, I wondered if that type of product actually caused more drying out over time. I've talked to other people who did not have the same experience, but used armor all a lot. Always wondered if anyone else had a similar experience with that type of product.

Hugs,
Ratkity

[zapj]

Over the years I experienced the same with cracking of vinyl dashboards and noticed the rubber around the windows shrinking. I have been told by many people over the years not to use that product because the alcohol dries out the applied to surface. I have been advised to use only a silicone product.

[pete42]

Larry C my only experience with light weight trailers is pop-ups I have owned two first one for 20 years I did not realize the tires were bad because they had lots of tread left the trailer was always kept in a garage.

I have since had many heavy travel trailers and I always used radials

a tear drop trailer could in my opinion use almost any tire be it trailer, car or truck and do well.

I had Carlisle trailer tires on my last travel trailer many trips to florida with out a problem
but when I sold it one of the two tires on curb side had a big split,
If I kept the trailer new tires would have been over $500
which is what I reduced the price by when I sold the trailer
I pointed out the bad tires to the buyer the tires were six years old at the time.

I do not recomend carlisle tires.

[geartow]

The Khumo is much more solid. I've got them inflated to 65 psi to start, I might drop down to 60 if it seems like the trailer is ridding rough.

You need to check that your wheels are rated to those pressures the ones on my utility trailer are stamped 50 psi max tire pressure. I have seen wheels that exploded due to too much tire pressure.

[bdosborn]

The Khumo is much more solid. I've got them inflated to 65 psi to start, I might drop down to 60 if it seems like the trailer is ridding rough.

You need to check that your wheels are rated to those pressures the ones on my utility trailer are stamped 50 psi max tire pressure. I have seen wheels that exploded due to too much tire pressure.

Oh wow, I never thought of that! Wait, yes I did.

Wheel Clicky


Bruce

[geartow]

It was an idea that needed mentioning, Glad you checked all angle first.

[teardrop_focus]

To no one in particular, as I have only skimmed over this thread...

I am an enthusiast, not an expert, but, in my experience, and in the experience of those who run tires near their speed thresholds*, tires DO NOT fail from overpressure. They fail from too low a pressure and/or inferior manufacturing quality, as seems to be the case w/ the Marathon trailer tire.

*http://www.sscc.us/

Generally speaking, good tires fail only when underinflated and/or overloaded, due to over-flexing of the tire's section. This creates too much heat, cause the tire to come apart.

Air pressure! is what keeps the trailer load off of the ground; your tires' construction cannot do this without the aid of correct air pressure.

Makes no difference if it's tow vehicle or trailer; speed creates heat in tires. The faster one travels, the hotter tires become. Be sure you have properly inflated your tires, when they are "cold" (not driven on yet that day nor have been sitting in sunlight which heats them)

...tires on the vehicle should be properly sized, inflated and inspected if you plan to drive fast because the tires will be subjected to tremendous stresses.

Because of the weight they bear, pneumatic tires' sidewalls bulge and their treads flatten as they roll into contact with the road. This results in dimensional difference between the tire's "unloaded" radius (i.e., between the center of the axle and the top of the tire) and its "loaded" radius (between the center of the axle and the road). The engineer's call the difference between the two radii "deflection." Increasing vehicle speed will cause the tires to deflect quicker and increasing vehicle load will cause the tires to deflect farther (if tire pressure isn't increased).

Consider that a 225/45R17 91W Standard Load tire (with a 25-inch overall diameter) will roll about 835 times every mile. Although the number of tire revolutions per mile doesn't change significantly as speed climbs, the revolutions per second become daunting. While the 225/45R17 91W-sized tire rolls a rather comfortable 7 times per second at 30 mph, this same tire will roll about 16 times per second at 70 mph on an American Interstate and an amazing 35 times per second during a 150 mph cruise on the German Autobahn. Thirty-five tire revolutions per second means that the tire is transforming from its unloaded to loaded shape and back every 3/100th of a second.

More here: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/ ... ?techid=72

I should say again here that it is not overall speed that can cause tires to fail; it is operating any tire near it's maximum speed rating and/or load rating while being underinflated.