Don & Christi's 6 x 10 Cargo Conversion

[Pyrofish]

My buddy has had 2 big 5th wheel TT's. The latest one is almost 40' and has 3 slide outs. It's a damn nice TT with loads of amenities, and trim work. Thoughtful cabinets, and lots of sleep space. It's a very nice Trailer.

That said, I've ridden in it while driving down the road and you should hear the sounds they make... Also, the floor is thin. I'm a big guy, so I notice the floor flexing under me. The walls are thinnish (I've seen worse in lesser models), but we can hear what's going on outside just fine. The plumbing is a major pain to get to if you need to make a repair. Parts always need replaced and/or repaired. He's had it 3 years now and has already replaced all 3 slide-out gaskets. The trailer brake wires were run right next to the dang brake rotor and chewed through on our first long run. That was fun to find. Who puts wire, unrestrained, next to a brake rotor? Imagine what else is behind the panels that's not done in a workman like fashion.

Not to mention weight... Good lord... when he got this one, he had to upgrade from a Dodge 2500 diesel dually, to a 3500 diesel dually, and upgrade his 5th wheel to a 20K version because his old 15K wasn't going to be quite enough.

I know another guy that just bought a use bumper pull toy hauler without thinking about weight. It's 6500 lbs with nothing loaded He's looking at paying someone to drag it because he's afraid with it loaded, his half ton truck will die under it's weight.

A cargo trailer conversion isn't right for everyone, but for me, the weight savings, the customization, the thought I can put into beforehand... it's the only way to go. My 20' x 8'6 x 8' should weigh less 5K loaded with a Rhino and a weeks worth of gear for me and my girl.

[denmohr]

I now see the light! I had some deliveries today that took me past 3 RV dealers......namely the customer I have been dealing with for 5 or 6 years.

Oh Heavens.....you are right, this quest for "lightness" ( if that's a word) puts structural integrity and quality back in 5th spot.

I also had a revelation.......my buddy, who has been the recipient of many trades/sales of my used tools and equipment said it..........."you have regretted selling any tool you have ever sold/given/loaned..etc. and often try to buy them back"

Guys, I'm keeping the tool trailer, the 5 x 8 little jobbie I have down south with just basic tools just frustrates me anyway. I will take the 12 footer down and sell the baby and I will buy a new 6 x 12. I get a pretty good price, I think on "continental" from my guy who I have been buying from 25 years.

Next question. I plan on pulling the new one with a Jeep Liberty, factory tow package, 3.7 V-6, not my F-150. Does anyone see a problem.

I don't even have a hitch on the Jeep yet, putting on this week, and will hook up the overloaded 6 x 12 and see how she handles.

It is rated for 5000 lb, an empty 6 x 12 single axle is 1300, and I figure approx 700lb outfitting, water, and then gear, etc. Am I close? I have never paid much attention to weight, it was never an issue. My jobs have always been within 5o miles of home base and Pinehurst is just 700 miles.

As I read the tear drop forums, I realize that weight is a big consideration...OH, probably should mention where I want to go! with this new rig.

I have raised and put two girls thru college and haven't had a decent vacation since we lost our first child to spina-bifida..1977......just working my arse off. I want to tour the west/southwest. I am so envious of you guys as I look at your pics. Great Salt Lake, grand canyon, hoover dam, Lass Vegas, Jacskson Hole. I'm thinking a 6 week jaunt.

PS. I will also look at the weight of a dual axle 6 x 12, that would take some weight off the tongue........ideas.......suggestions, very much welcome!

[d30gaijin]

Next question. I plan on pulling the new one with a Jeep Liberty, factory tow package, 3.7 V-6, not my F-150. Does anyone see a problem.

I don't even have a hitch on the Jeep yet, putting on this week, and will hook up the overloaded 6 x 12 and see how she handles.

Den,

Can't help you with the Jeep Liberty 3.7 but I do have a 2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0 liter straight 6 that I pull my 16.5' Jayco TT with and my 6x10 CT. The Cherokee is at it's max pulling the 16.5' going into Idaho high country but it handles the 6x10 CT quite well. The 4.0 straight six has a fare amount of torque for pulling. Unfortunately I don't know about the 3.7 V6 Liberty, other than I believe it is smaller and lighter than the original Cherokee like I have. Still, I would think it should handle the 6x12 CT OK if not loaded too heavy. What I have found is that it isn't the size of my Cherokee as a towing vehicle, rather it is simply a lack of engine power getting up steep grades. Handling wise the Cherokee does great hauling the Jayco TT but could simply use more power.

Don

[Engineer Guy]

My uninformed hunch is that you'll total up 'worst case' to about what I tow via my 8' x 15' Commercial TT: 4k lbs. Lotsa tricks, like filling up w/Fresh Water late in the tow, helps. Although I sho likes my Cabinetry, using Baskets on Shelves, covered by nice looking Curtains, saves weight. Every little bit helps, short of getting cheesy. You'll also have the option of storing Gear fore-or-aft in the CT to moderate Hitch weight while keeping weight over the Axle. This is huge.

All my Plumbing, and almost all the Wiring, runs down one side and is readily accessible.

I've got a 2000 Mitsubishi Montero Sport w/3.5 Liter w/~200,000 miles on it. It's rated to tow 5k lbs. max. Besides an oversize Tranny Pan and Cooler, I put Air Bags inside the rear Coil Springs. I use a +12 VDC Compressor to pump them up to 30 PSI and keep the Hitch level. Going up/down Hills is a little slow, but I let the Gears do the work by putting the Auto Tranny into the Gear of choice.

It took me quite some time to get my Head around how Equalizers Bars make the TV and Trailer 'one long uniform unit', but see some insight below. Apparently, things are peachy up-and-down in one axis. The Bars have to be disconnected to back into spots, etc.. An exception might be the type I've seen on new Airstreams. There's little Rollers on the Trailer Frame - instead of the usual 'Knee'-type Ball Joint connection - and these Rollers allow forward/backward motion on the Bars. Someone experienced can chime in here...

A/C; 'tall' Propane Tanks; and too many optional items can rack up the weight fast. With a few tricks, I suspect you'll do just fine w/your TV.

My Avatar is a MI gal, schooled up in the U.P..

Equalizer Bars

[denmohr]

Ah...... the UP, was up once, for any length of time, other than running across the bridge and coming back. A place we stayed, the guy hung a chicken from a tree outside his kitchen window..........when he needed bear meat, pretty much make your own rules up there.

Thanks for your info, looks like that will be my setup too.

I put a hitch on the jeep yesterday, and will hookup the 6 x 10 and see how it handles, I know its way overloaded, got a ton of tools.

I'm getting so excited about this project, can hardly sleep.

[pete42]

Denmohr wrote "I'm getting so excited about this project, can hardly sleep."

Isn't life great, we can be kids no matter what the calendar says.

and I've seen a lot of calendars.........Pete

[pmowers]

Although I sho likes my Cabinetry, using Baskets on Shelves, covered by nice looking Curtains, saves weight.

Has anyone tried this basket system from IKEA?http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S09887702 They make stacks with either solid or wire-frame drawers. I am thinking of running a bungee from top to bottom of the drawer set to keep them closed. Don't know if I could get much lighter.

I have been watching the progress on this thread- looks great. Just got a 6x10 CT, replacing a little camp kitchen that I built on a HF 3'2"x4' frame. Couple of us would go fishing on the weekend, The one cooking would say, "Get the plates", and we would all look at each other,"I thought that it was your turn..." . So I built my first one, used it for about 5 years, then tore it down to build my second, squeezing a 4'x4'x6' body on the same frame, used it for about the same amount of time, decided to bite the bullet and get a bigger one. (It was either that, or get rid of some stuff) . After humping a 'ruck for 21 years, my camping standards have gone up a bit.

[d30gaijin]

It took me quite some time to get my Head around how Equalizers Bars make the TV and Trailer 'one long uniform unit', but see some insight below. Apparently, things are peachy up-and-down in one axis. The Bars have to be disconnected to back into spots, etc.. An exception might be the type I've seen on new Airstreams. There's little Rollers on the Trailer Frame - instead of the usual 'Knee'-type Ball Joint connection - and these Rollers allow forward/backward motion on the Bars. Someone experienced can chime in here...

EG,

I have equalizer bars for my Jayco 16.5' TT and they make a tremendous difference in towing. Without them the butt end of my Jeep Cherokee sinks way down and one can feel the lack of weight on the front wheels. With the equalizer bars hooked up the butt sinks a bit but nothing like it does without them. They make a huge difference in towing the TT. They really do work.

Be that as it may, I have never had a problem backing the TT up with the equalizer bars attached i.e., I have never had to disconnect them to back into any spot (so far, anyway, and I've made some fairly tight radius backups). I don't use them with the 6x10 CT as the tongue weight of that trailer doesn't warrant them. Still, I did buy a pair of air shocks for the rear of the Cherokee but haven't installed them yet. I'm still experimenting with trailer hitch stinger length and height before I do install them (bought a shorter stinger to try so there is less moment arm by putting the CT tongue/ball hitch closer to the Cherokee rear axle centerline). But I do need to install them for the same reason you installed airbags inside your coil springs. I don't have coils on the rear of the Cherokee, leaf springs instead, so the air shocks seemed the way to go.

Don

[d30gaijin]

I have done a lot of trim/cabinet work for a young guy here in Milford, who's Dad & uncle started [snip!]

Den,

Since you've done a lot of trim/cabinet work perhaps you can help me out. If you've read the last couple of pages of my thread here you've likely seen what I am trying to do in terms of a rank amateur making a cabinet enclosure in the forward (galley area) of my CT conversion and installing a couple of cabinet doors to gain access to that enclosure, or what's behind it. I need to cut openings in the oak cabinet walls to install the doors I bought.

My question (or plan) is to layout the opening lines that I need to cut then drill a 3/8" to 1/2" hole in each of the four corners of the layout and then cut the opening with a handheld electric jigsaw. I am not the steadiest guy in the world working with a handheld jigsaw i.e., trying to cut a straight line with one has not resulted in great success for me, so was wondering if you might have a better suggestion as to how to cut a clean opening in the oak cabinet face for the doors? I have a cheap table saw, a nice chop saw, and a good jigsaw, but no router (and I don't want to buy the latter just for a couple of door openings).

Thank you for any help or suggestions you can provide.

Don

[CarlLaFong]

Get a few nice, straight strips of wood. Measure the distance from the blade of your jigsaw to the edge of the shoe. Screw the straight edge to the cabinet face, holding it back the amount of the blade to shoe measurement. Be sure the screws are in the part that you will discard. Make the cut, holding the shoe of the saw firmly against the straight edge. Repeat for the remaining three sides. The oak veneer is thin and brittle, so go easy and use a fine blade to prevent chipping at the edge of the cut. I have a small, battery powered circular saw that I use when making these kinds of plunge cuts. I use the same technique, with the straight edges, but I first make a very, very light scoring cut and then the plunge cut. I get no chip out that way.You can score the cut line with a straight edge and a utility knife if you're using s jigsaw.

[d30gaijin]

Get a few nice, straight strips of wood. Measure the distance from the blade of your jigsaw to the edge of the shoe. Screw the straight edge to the cabinet face, holding it back the amount of the blade to shoe measurement. Be sure the screws are in the part that you will discard. Make the cut, holding the shoe of the saw firmly against the straight edge. Repeat for the remaining three sides. The oak veneer is thin and brittle, so go easy and use a fine blade to prevent chipping at the edge of the cut. I have a small, battery powered circular saw that I use when making these kinds of plunge cuts. I use the same technique, with the straight edges, but I first make a very, very light scoring cut and then the plunge cut. I get no chip out that way.You can score the cut line with a straight edge and a utility knife if you're using s jigsaw.

Carl La Fong... "LaFong! Capital L, small a. Capital F, small o small n small g. LaFong! Carl LaFong." I love it! WC Fields at his finest. I suspect we are of the few to know where it comes from. Great moniker! I repeated that exact line to my wife over our Labor Day camping weekend a couple of weeks ago for reasons I do not recall, other than it was some situation we found ourselves in at the time and it seemed appropriate. It is one of my favorite WC Fields quotes.

Thank you for the advice. I will give it a try and report back.

Don

[CarlLaFong]

Get a few nice, straight strips of wood. Measure the distance from the blade of your jigsaw to the edge of the shoe. Screw the straight edge to the cabinet face, holding it back the amount of the blade to shoe measurement. Be sure the screws are in the part that you will discard. Make the cut, holding the shoe of the saw firmly against the straight edge. Repeat for the remaining three sides. The oak veneer is thin and brittle, so go easy and use a fine blade to prevent chipping at the edge of the cut. I have a small, battery powered circular saw that I use when making these kinds of plunge cuts. I use the same technique, with the straight edges, but I first make a very, very light scoring cut and then the plunge cut. I get no chip out that way.You can score the cut line with a straight edge and a utility knife if you're using s jigsaw.

Carl La Fong... "LaFong! Capital L, small a. Capital F, small o small n small g. LaFong! Carl LaFong." I love it! WC Fields at his finest. I suspect we are of the few that know where it comes from. Great moniker!

Thank you for the advice. I will give it a try and report back.

Don

No, I do not know Carl La Fong, capital L, small a, capital F, small o, small n, small g. And if I did, I wouldn't tell you!!
Hope it works for you. We gaijins have to stick together.

[Engineer Guy]

+1 on LaFong's approach; it's worked for me.

I clamp on straight edges all the time as Guides. The cuts turn out very nice. I also use a well-aged Square as a Guide to ensure 90 degree cuts on ordinary 2 x 4s when occasionally req'd. Guides take most all the correction 'sweat' out of making the cut. Keep the Saw against the temporary Guide, and ya can't fail.

An old trick is to use Masking Tape and mark cut lines on that. It prevents/minimizes splintering when you cut through it.

I learned the Razor Knife trick from a Pro who used it to ensure very clean rectangles on Door Hinge and Strike Plate cutouts.

When I towed lotsa Band Gear in a CT w/a '77 Dodge 3/4 Ton Truck, adjustable Air Shocks I put on did the trick then, too.

[d30gaijin]

No, I do not know Carl La Fong, capital L, small a, capital F, small o, small n, small g. And if I did, I wouldn't tell you!!
Hope it works for you. We gaijins have to stick together.

Insurance salesman, 'I hear he's a railroad man and leaves home very early in the morning.' WC Fields, "Well he's a chump."

Don

[CarlLaFong]

No, I do not know Carl La Fong, capital L, small a, capital F, small o, small n, small g. And if I did, I wouldn't tell you!!
Hope it works for you. We gaijins have to stick together.

Insurance salesman, 'I hear he's a railroad man and leaves home very early in the morning.' WC Fields, "Well he's a chump."

Don

This could easily degenerate into the type of comprehensive idiocy that has been a hallmark of my life.
One of my proudest achievements is the fact that my 20 year old grand daughter is a huge Laurel & Hardy fan. Whenever she came to visit, when she was little, all she wanted to do was watch my L&H tapes. When I was in the hospital last year, after cancer surgery, she came to visit. She said, "I brought you hard boiled eggs and nuts." Ever laugh with staples holding your guts in?
I have preordered a new, remastered 10 disc set of all their talkies for her Christmas present. I "accidentally" hit 2 instead of 1 when I ordered. Guess I'll have to keep one for my library.

"Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite and furthermore always carry a small snake." WCF