Re: Cigar Box Guitar build....... New Youtube clip loaded !!

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Postby StPatron » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:50 pm

Really nice job you're doing there, Grizz! That angled headstock looks very, very nice and will also be functional. That's an advanced stage for most builders.

If I had to make one suggestion.... Most CBG builders claim (add me to that camp) that you will obtain more volume if the box top doesn't make full contact with the neck segment that's inside the box. While it's tempting to glue the lid down to that portion of the neck, too much contact will result in a dampening effect on the top "soundboard". GPW's diagram demonstrates that, a deeper cut in that neck segment. You need a secure fit of the neck to the box, however. That can be achieved by gluing some thin buttresses (inside the box) where the neck "enters" and "leaves" the box, supporting the neck beneath and also on each side.

To answer your question, absolutely no problem with electrifying a CBG with sound-holes.

For amplification you have several options.

1. A piezo element wired to an input jack. Piezo elements are a thin, round wafer with a brass ring surrounding it, typically used for a buzzer. They are pretty cheap and can also be found in many discarded alarm clocks, motherboards, etc. Some attach the piezo to the underside of the box, using hot glue. I create a recess in the neck (similar to the coin inlay), under the higher resonance bridge area and hot glue the piezo in place with a leather covering. I'm convinced the leather helps to reduce feedback. You'll also need an input jack.

2. Adding an electric guitar pickup, most often a single-coil.

There are other ways, these are the most common. A bridge that incorporates a piezo element is gaining popularity.

For amplification, there are also several options:
1. A standard guitar amplifier.
2. A 386 transistor based home-built.
3. A mini-amplifier such as Danelectro's Honey Tone.

I'm also a fan of Bemuzic's guitars and music, she rocks!

Great progress, my friend, and I admire your approach. Carrying on the tradition of the early builders who used their imagination. That flamed tailpiece is the mark of both a craftsman and an artist! Job well done! Thanks for the report and all the pics. :thumbsup: :applause:
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Postby GPW » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:53 am

Just a tip on Piezo buzzers , you can attach it with hot glue and then just cover over the chip generously with more hot glue .... no wasting a cow ... It also helps prevent feedback ... :thumbsup:


Nice Job Grizz... 8)
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Postby grizz » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:48 am

droid_ca wrote:I love the idea of the diddley bow I totaly want one I saw a video of one that had a high hat on it made from the bottoms of coffee cans and a spring. keep up the good work as I might have to borrow some ideas :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


The DB is deffo a plank I want, hence building one as well as the CBG.

The guys who know what they are doing really can make them speak.
Greetings from England.

Rian.


Hoping to get it all done in time.
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Postby grizz » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:06 am

GuitarPhotog wrote:I photograph guitars and stringed instruments for a living, but I've never enjoyed watching an instrument come together they way I am enjoying watching you build this cigar box guitar.

I hope it sounds as good as it is built when finished.

<Chas>
www.guitarphotography.com


Thanks Chas, I will take that as a compliment.

Pity you could not be here to photograph it as I go along, so that one can do a guide on the building, but hopefully my happy snappy pics and the thread will be good enough for most.
Greetings from England.

Rian.


Hoping to get it all done in time.
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Postby grizz » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:14 am

StPatrón wrote:Really nice job you're doing there, Grizz! That angled headstock looks very, very nice and will also be functional. That's an advanced stage for most builders.

If I had to make one suggestion.... Most CBG builders claim (add me to that camp) that you will obtain more volume if the box top doesn't make full contact with the neck segment that's inside the box. While it's tempting to glue the lid down to that portion of the neck, too much contact will result in a dampening effect on the top "soundboard". GPW's diagram demonstrates that, a deeper cut in that neck segment. You need a secure fit of the neck to the box, however. That can be achieved by gluing some thin buttresses (inside the box) where the neck "enters" and "leaves" the box, supporting the neck beneath and also on each side.



To answer your question, absolutely no problem with electrifying a CBG with sound-holes.

For amplification you have several options.

1. A piezo element wired to an input jack. Piezo elements are a thin, round wafer with a brass ring surrounding it, typically used for a buzzer. They are pretty cheap and can also be found in many discarded alarm clocks, motherboards, etc. Some attach the piezo to the underside of the box, using hot glue. I create a recess in the neck (similar to the coin inlay), under the higher resonance bridge area and hot glue the piezo in place with a leather covering. I'm convinced the leather helps to reduce feedback. You'll also need an input jack.

2. Adding an electric guitar pickup, most often a single-coil.

There are other ways, these are the most common. A bridge that incorporates a piezo element is gaining popularity.

For amplification, there are also several options:
1. A standard guitar amplifier.
2. A 386 transistor based home-built.
3. A mini-amplifier such as Danelectro's Honey Tone.

I'm also a fan of Bemuzic's guitars and music, she rocks!

Great progress, my friend, and I admire your approach. Carrying on the tradition of the early builders who used their imagination. That flamed tailpiece is the mark of both a craftsman and an artist! Job well done! Thanks for the report and all the pics. :thumbsup: :applause:




Hi Gary, thanks for all the advice.

I am absolutely happy to join your camp re: non contact with the lid, and will go hollow it out as artistically as I can when I go to the shed in a little while. I will look at recessing the piezo a bit too, I do not have a hot glue gun (used to , but gave it to someone who needed it more at the time) but will use 2 part epoxy glue to fix it, I still need to figure a way of connecting, mounting the jack in a way that allows you to open it without breaking the fragile wires.

I will make some small buttress' to fit inside the box to secure everything once the neck has been shaved.

Next big job today is cutting the recesses for the machine screw setup I have rescued from the donor. I find that quite daunting.

My single coil pickup I bought today will be for the DB.

Oh, and I want to try build an amp, once I find out what goes into it.....

I have a lovely Jack Daniels tin that Nicola brought here some time ago, that could be a CBG, or amp box.
Greetings from England.

Rian.


Hoping to get it all done in time.
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Postby grizz » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:16 am

PS: I love the flamed tailpiece a whole load myself too.

GPW, I will use whatever is at hand, I even cut the tongues out of old shoes as bits of leather make for good friction plates , or catapult grips.


Amazing how time flies when you are busy.

I had to use the motorbike today.... bloody cold and windy out there, but as I had not ridden it since August, the battery was going downhill and could not even start the bike, so I jump started it from a spare battery.

I went to Maplins Electronics and got a Piezo, some 1/4" input jacks and on recommendation of the guy in the shop, a small speaker to try out as well. The match sticks are there for perspective.

I then went to a real music and instrument shop and spoke to a youngster who really seemed to know his way about guitars...... he will also be the "volunteer" to play the two instruments once I have completed them, as he says he can play.
I bought a single coil pickup for the Diddley Bow, and some strings for both.

My total so far, excluding electricity, sandpaper and varnish, for the builds, including materials stands at a whopping £22.25

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I am currently looking at various options and ways to make a nice and interesting bridge for the DB, the single coil pickup was also bought specifically for it, as I am only planning on building one of them and want it to be as good as possible from the outset.

I will look out for various bottles, bits of metal etc in the mean time though...... currently the favourite to be incorporated is this Gecko, with the string running over his neck.....

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It is almost 1.20pm here now, and the shed should be warmed up by now, as I switched on the oil heater when I got back from town..... time to go play again, and start shaping the neck a bit, and making the slots for the tuning bits.
Greetings from England.

Rian.


Hoping to get it all done in time.
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Postby StPatron » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:52 pm

grizz wrote: I still need to figure a way of connecting, mounting the jack in a way that allows you to open it without breaking the fragile wires.


I mount my jacks in the lower box piece and make allowances for opening the box by using extra wire length, a loose coil. In this pic, you can see the finger-pull drilled and ready for the jack.

The buttresses don't have to be fancy, anything that will provide a larger glue surface and add stabilization to the neck.

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My assistant:
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Postby grizz » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:45 pm

On advice from various sources and a couple of serial builders I decided not to glue the neck to the lid, but rather to have it pass below, and allow the lid to be more resonant, allowing it to amplify the vibration of the strings a bit more.

So I sanded it a bit lower.

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Next up I started to modify the tuning mechanism to a 4 string setup by cutting a single section off each side.

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After which I filed them to make them look a bit more like the original with extra detail.
The single machine heads , well only one is complete, will be used for the Diddley Bow.

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I then measured and marked the head for the recesses that needed cutting.

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Drilled the basic holes and followed up with a chissel and files.

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Rough finishing, and getting the angled exit right.

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Then back into the woodwork shed......

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I was just starting to reassemble the head with its bits at 5pm when Nicola came to fetch me into the house as we had some good friends over for dinner, wine and chat.

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I hope to get a bit more done tomorrow, as the kids are home, and I am to be a good husband (which I quite enjoy) and play around in the house, doing stuff like hanging pictures and some of the masks from our collection..... yep, we collect masks from around the world.....
The actual pins into which the strings are fixed for the tensioning are too long as they come from a regular sized head to a 2 inch wide head, so I will need to machine them down a bit.

Some of the multitude of masks on the stairwell wall.

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Greetings from England.

Rian.


Hoping to get it all done in time.
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Postby grizz » Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:33 am

Have had a bit of a "setback" today, due to my attention to detail, or the lack of it.

Story in a bit.

I have been looking for a way to build a jack plug enclosure with a bit of humour for the electrified Diddley Bow when I get to it.

This morning I was in the loft , rumaging, scratching about in my boxed up "stuff".

I found this tin, seems like a perfect place to solder the jack plug into, and then I want to cover it over with some epoxy resin to make is solid and reasonably stable.

Opinions??

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I also rediscovered a 1977 Queen Elizabeth Silver Jublee coin, originally bought to practice rolling it over my fingers, like magicians do. I have a nice bit that is a bit bigger, so recessing it into the head of the CBG with a bit of resin should be easy. The American Quarter is compare sizes. It will be going elsewhere on the CBG.

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************************************************************

Right, back to the matters at hand.

When I started to fit the second set of tuning screws it became apparent that my holes were out ever so slightly, but also my timber was cut a tad too thin when I trimmed it down, fortunately I kept the fillet, so now I needed to sand it all back and re-attach it to the head to get the desired thickness.
This of course means the holes have to be copied, lamination done and the whole thing set aside to dry for 12-24 hrs. OOOOPPPSS !!

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Sliver of wood trimmed, holes copied and rough cut.

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Glued and clamped. Now to be patient and wait for tomorrow, ohh, and I cannot work then either as I promissed to take Nicola out somewhere of her choice.

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So I started to play around with the bits for the Diddley Bow.

This is a mess around prototype as I used the recycled strings form the donor guitar, and the first string snapped the moment I put tension on it.

Still, Nicola played it a bit when I came into the house for Christmas lunch.... you heard right, the kids go to their grandparents and father on Christmas day and Boxing days for meals etc.... so we hold back till they are hungry again.

My favourite pie/pasty is Steak and Kidney, and these ones are £1.00 each at the Poundshop locally.

Thought I would see what it sounded like with the donors bridge on top.
My hinge made tailpiece, a real "don't know where it came from" tensioning screw, and the nut is one from a box I bought as spacers when I lowered my Bus suspension.

The pick is made of a fabric softener bottle's side and the slide is an old enamel mug.

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I will hold off on making the electrified one untill I have a decent piece of wide hardwood with some character, as well as some slim line glass bottles for the nut and bridge.

The sound is not too bad just as it is, but I suspect once tuned and electrified it will be worth a smile at least.

Image


Once again, comments and advice always welcome.
Greetings from England.

Rian.


Hoping to get it all done in time.
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Postby grizz » Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:46 pm

I did mess about with my Diddley Bow a bit, but have to say I am attrocious, I mean, really bad. Wish I was able to create even the simplest beat.

Anyway, Here is a video, do not bother going past 30-60 seconds, it does not get any better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcSjJD6EH74


I also managed to snap that string this morning when I wanted to play about a bit more, and tried to "tune" it a bit more.
Have put a nylon string onto it now, which absolutely does not work.

Went to Whitstable today for the traditional New Years day lunch and chatting to Nicola's brother who is an encyclopedia of music, mentioned I was going to make up and electrify a DB, as soon as I found a decent piece of hardwood to use.

He usually smokes outside the house in all weathers, so a bit later he went out to the shed that you can see from the house, and I thought he was having a smoke (probably was) then he came back with a length of mahogany, which he had bought for a house 25 years ago when he was replacing window sills..... "Can you use this? "

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I guess I do now have a basis for the electrified DB I want to build.
I have some strings and will use one of the left over ones once the CBG is strung up.

Before we went to Whitstable this morning , I popped to the shed to start finishing off the wood I had laminated onto the head, once the holes have been finished, I think it should look quite good.

Tomorrow I plan on making up the sections to reinforce the sides of the Cigar Box, after which the neck can be fitted, and then I need to do the electrics.... not looking forward much to that.

Image
Greetings from England.

Rian.


Hoping to get it all done in time.
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Postby grizz » Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:14 pm

Andy, there are various techniques to playing the DB, one is percussion, and as such, seeing as I cannot play anything, I thought the striking action with a gentle slide would demonstrate the range best.
I had tried fingers, plectrum as well, but they are quite unimpressive, mainly due to my lack of tallent.

Anyway....... that Diddley Bow is no more, I needed some wood, and and as mentioned before, it was just a prototype-ish thing.

Because I have shaved the neck away and am going to allow the lid/soundboard to float freely, I needed to support the actual cigar box on the sides where the neck rests.

So I cut a section of the DB into strips to fit.

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Then cut out the recess, and glued and clamped the lot.

The neck will be glued to the edges and also get a couple of very thin panel pins in to keep it all static.

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Once that was done, I cut the head to size, keeping the angle as it was when I originally found the piece of wood.

I also drilled a pair of holes, one on the "fret board" as I am going fretless with this build, and one on the head, behind the tuning pegs.

The Oklahoma Quarter that Gary had sent me goes flat fit on the fret board and then I have a Queens Jublee coin from 1977, with pretty artwork.

I used a small bit of red and some yellow food dye to colour my woodglue, to get ti the same hue as the Cigar Box..... lets hope it all dries successfully.

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At this point I ran out of stuff to do, and did not want to start making the new Diddley Bow, as there is too much dust around.

I dug out a building block from my stash of weird "I am sure I will use it sometime" pile.
I had found it up on the farm a few months ago, on their road repairs pile of building rubble that they crush and break to fill holes on the roads and to stop tractors sinking in etc.

This was actually inspired by DeliDave when I visited him and saw the stuff he had carved from blocks and various other materials.

So I drew a basic TIKI face onto it, and went and sat on the stair outside the shed (Trust me it was cold) and started gently chisseling away the bits I did not want.

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This carving I did as a surprise for Nicola, who once again has tolerated me and my getting sucked into making stuff and losing touch with reality.
It will be a garden ornament in one of her garden beds and allowed to age and get covered with moss over time.

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Brought it into the house once done and plonked it in the kitchen on the table and called Nicola, who seemed pretty pleased with it.

I tried to photograph it, but the flash tends to mess with it, and without flash its a bit dark in the kitchen.

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Hope to get back onto the Cigar Box Guitar build tomorrow then.
Greetings from England.

Rian.


Hoping to get it all done in time.
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Postby S. Heisley » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:17 pm

Grizz, what's the purpose of the glass? It looks like all the one-string diddley bow players (?) seem to use them. Is it just to protect the fingers or does it add some sort of resonance?
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Postby grizz » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:33 am

S. Heisley wrote:Grizz, what's the purpose of the glass? It looks like all the one-string diddley bow players (?) seem to use them. Is it just to protect the fingers or does it add some sort of resonance?


Hi Sharon,

Happy New Year, hope it is a great one for you.

I would think (not being a musician myself) that the glass or a chrome/copper pipe allows for better more pure resonance, and controll over the sounds the string produces, if you think, your fingers effectively dull the sound of the strings, or slows down the vibration faster..... hopefully a real musician will come along in a moment and tell us :)
Greetings from England.

Rian.


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Postby GPW » Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:19 am

It’s the moveable Fret !!! :thumbsup:
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Postby grizz » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:08 pm

Today was a misserable day, Nicola went back to work, I have the week off.... so perfect timing to go have a cuppa with neighbour Mickey and his wife, as we do not see each other as much as when I was unemployed.

After that I went to the shed which had warmed up nicely as I had switched the heater on an hour before.

Drilled and cut a hole in the one reinforced side as I had forgot to do it before I glued it in..... for the 1/4" jack socket.

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I had also followe dthat by soldering the piezo and jack together, after which the holes with coins in the neck were finished off.

It was not very long before Mickey popped over for some "Man company" and a few fags, he had not seen what have been up to recently, and was very impressed with what I had done so far.....

Not quite Elvis, but you get the idea.

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Next up I made up the Bridge from an old key and some wood, the nut was next, made of the piece of Corian that Gary had sent over with the original challenge.

I recessed the key into the wood and then laid epoxy into the groove and laid the key on top of it. I will carve the excess away with a pen knife tomorrow.

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Next job will be stringing it up and getting the CBG played.


Remember the "Grizz" brand with the bear I had made up some time ago ?

Got to use it today.

Used another tip find, Butane weed burner to heat it up.....

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Then tested it a few times on various heat levels and some of the wood from the Cigar Box Guitar.

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Then lastly, tried it on the inside of the CBG, so now it is marked.

I must say, I am quite pleased with the ultimate outcome.

Image


Thats all for tonight, hope you enjoyed the update.
Greetings from England.

Rian.


Hoping to get it all done in time.
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