glue vs epoxy

[Larry C]

[quote="GPW"]Larry , that 1/8â€

[GPW]

Milled glass fibers , in 2 sizes ... Just a quart of that stuff should be Plenty for a a glue application on a small trailer ... Thanks for the link ...!!!!

[eaglesdare]

yeah i am liking this idea. thanks for the link.

[Larry C]

I will do some experimenting this weekend with milled glass fibers in thickened epoxy to apply glass over plain and perforated blue foam to see the difference

[aggie79]

Thank you for this thread. I'm still interested in the foam core construction but had concerns about delamination regardless of the adhesive.

You've probably already said this, but I've seen other places recommend a light coarse sanding - 60 or 80 grit - to give the slick "skin" of the insulation some "tooth" for whatever adhesive.

[linuxmanxxx]

My thoughts are the delamination is being caused by hardness factors. Both tb2 and epoxy dry to very hard coatings with no flexibility properties at all and if the foam which is a very flexible component flexes in any way the nature of the glue would be to delaminate and break away from the foam.

So that said a hard but flexible coating would be the answer but still have very high adhesion to the foam. The plasticore stuff has shown to have these properties but is quite pricey and have to be relegated to a high end coating. I haven't played with my foamcoat and bounce additive yet and will do all that soon after I move but the troweling aspect is a buzz killer on that one for sure.

The zoopoxy place has a flexible epoxy and I will email the president back and kick around how hard it gets and pricing on it as he quoted a hard shell epoxy to me.

So not being argumentative but do you understand what I mean by a flexible glue wouldn't delaminate just because of its properties to give and take? That is where I think the holy grail will come from is figuring one that will flex and not break the bank paying for it but still have hardness to go with the flex.

[eaglesdare]

Thank you for this thread. I'm still interested in the foam core construction but had concerns about delamination regardless of the adhesive.

You've probably already said this, but I've seen other places recommend a light coarse sanding - 60 or 80 grit - to give the slick "skin" of the insulation some "tooth" for whatever adhesive.

gpw sanded his prior to adding the glue.

[eaglesdare]

steve, that does make sense.

[eaglesdare]

http://www.demandproducts.com/Spray-Foa ... u=GROUPESC

?

[pete42]

on those chopped fiberglass pieces where I worked in bye gone years we use asbestos as a binder in the plaster mix then we went to the fiberglass pieces.

Be very careful handling them ingested they don't dissolve and can cause cancer.

Pete

[eaglesdare]

come on now. i was looking for that solution. you are right, we will never know what caused the blisters, however, we could possibly find a better product. you know i am not knocking my foamie, i love it and have enjoyed it. i know what my td is, but could i improve on it, i think i can (said the little train. )

but i really would hate to try to build a second foamie and have some issues with it. and i know we all could test all these new products on our sample pieces and still not really know if it will work on a full td/ttt that is being tow down bumpy/pot holed ridden highways/road. and we won't know for how long a product will last til time has passed.

but we still can think and ponder and give another item a try(if someone wants to). i did send for a sample of the stuff from the link i shared above.

i don't have issues with a foamie build. but i don't mind exploring other options for our glues and coatings.

[eaglesdare]

The wings on my fiberglass airplane flexed as do all wings and the core foam never separated from the fiberglass.
How much flex are you talking about there is way more stress exerted on a planes wings than on a foamy.
I think we are right back on the same subject as the other thread.
neither I nor anyone else knows the answer to what caused the blister we can go around this again and again
but the real test is when we all meet at Louella's and rip the bad canvas from her tear...........I'm sure she won't mind

anyone want to volunteer to go first Steve? Glenn? I would but I'm chicken.

Pete



on those chopped fiberglass pieces where I worked in bye gone years we use asbestos as a binder in the plaster mix then we went to the fiberglass pieces.

Be very careful handling them ingested they don't dissolve and can cause cancer.

and btw....you all can come to HELP build the socond one, not destroy the first one.

[linuxmanxxx]

Pete you said fiberglass on the wings and hasn't delaminated well nobody has done a fiberglass camper either. Fiberglass falls into that hard flexible catagory I mentioned earlier. What I'd like to know is how flexible does epoxy used in fiberglass get as that is an up and coming rage but still costly compared to the standard polyester resin which eats the dog out of the foam. So that said how are you transitioning on that airplane from foam to fiberglass so it doesn't eat the foam surface?

Adding this as an edit that in researching I have found there are gazillions of different types of epoxy mixes out there that give varying degrees of hardness time to set and other things so hard to say someone used epoxy on something without knowing the specific type and configuration they used to gauge whether it would be success or failure or anything in what we are looking at doing.

[Larry C]

My thoughts are the delamination is being caused by hardness factors. Both tb2 and epoxy dry to very hard coatings with no flexibility properties at all and if the foam which is a very flexible component flexes in any way the nature of the glue would be to delaminate and break away from the foam.

So that said a hard but flexible coating would be the answer but still have very high adhesion to the foam. The plasticore stuff has shown to have these properties but is quite pricey and have to be relegated to a high end coating. I haven't played with my foamcoat and bounce additive yet and will do all that soon after I move but the troweling aspect is a buzz killer on that one for sure.

The zoopoxy place has a flexible epoxy and I will email the president back and kick around how hard it gets and pricing on it as he quoted a hard shell epoxy to me.

So not being argumentative but do you understand what I mean by a flexible glue wouldn't delaminate just because of its properties to give and take? That is where I think the holy grail will come from is figuring one that will flex and not break the bank paying for it but still have hardness to go with the flex.

I understand what you mean about flexibility, but I don't think you may under stand just how flexible some epoxy by it self actually is. Titebond glue is very brittle. However the epoxy I use is very flexible, and will bend and twist without cracking. there are many different epoxies available, and I have used several. Some are much harder and more brittle than others.

My interest is in boat building where flexing/bending is the norm. Epoxy is commonly used to seal thin plywood without the reinforcement layer of fiberglass. I haven't witnessed cracking in these constantly flexing panels at least with the epoxies I have used.

I use a roller and a plastic paint tray for wet out of glass, and I reuse the tray for success jobs. I just pull off the cured epoxy that is left over, and it is flexible enough to bend in half without breaking, even when its 1/8" thick. This is after curing a week or more. However, I have done the same thing with other epoxies and they will break like a potato chip.

Some boat builders wet-out with a softer more flexible epoxy, and fill coat with a harder epoxy for better abrasion resistance. The best of both worlds.

I too am not trying to be argumentative. Also, I am not sure epoxy/glass over foam is the answer for a teardrop trailer, and won't delaminate, and even fall off, but this method of building boats is not new. The Plasticore stuff may actually be superior for a TD, but saying "epoxies are very hard coatings with no flexibility properties at all" has proved to be the opposite in my experience.

[linuxmanxxx]

Read my post right above yours and yes we are on the same page and I did state without knowing what epoxy is used where such as the bluebonnet build that did delaminate its hard to say yes or no.

I think the answer might be a tansition setup......get a glue that adheres the canvas to the foam with crazy adhesion and then transition from that glue to epoxy making sure the epoxy sticks very well to the glue/canvas configuration and then we would have our answer for longevity and durability and minimum delamination possibilities. The foam fusion glue has crazy glue adhesion to the foam as well as the neoprene contact cement I use so if we figure out coverage on both of these and then how well epoxy would stick to them afterwards we might have a starting point for assessing what is best and what cost/value options there are.