non-weld method to strengthen a trailer

[nelsonrx]

In the process of planning out and starting a widget build and I was looking at the TSC trailer (sku: 1000215 ). Forgive me if this has already been covered, but does anyone know of a non-weld method to add some strength to the tongue on this trailer? Total noob comment here, but is it possible to bolt on something to make this into an a-frame and add some strength?

[angib]

The TSC trailer has had some problems reported on the forum, but actual tongue strength hasn't been a problem - it's the weakness of the frame where the tongue connects to it that has been the problem. The two reported cases involved the second cross-member (at the back end of the tongue) being bent downwards. So one way of strengthening that is to securely fix the trailer floor to the middle of this cross-member, so the floor strength is added to the cross-member strength.

Drilling big bolt holes in the cross-member will weaken it, so keep any holes to no more than 3/8" - two 3/8" bolts (with big, big washers to the wood floor) on either side of the tongue connection will carry any load the floor can carry.

The front cross-member has to carry even more load from the tongue but that doesn't seem to be a weakness - probably because it has the front wall of the teardrop right above it and that wall can carry a big load.

[nelsonrx]

Thanks Andrew. My goal in building my widget is to keep at under or right at 1000 lbs. We're really only going to be putting in a queen size bed width-wise at the rear of the trailer and keep the entire front clear - no galley, no porta-potty...nothing. So, basically, it sounds as though as long as I bolt the floor on well to the chassis, then I should be good to go in terms of overall strength? Does extending the tongue as many have done add any strength or is that mainly just for extension purposes?

[bobhenry]

Hook up the frame and try backing it down a narrow alley or winding driveway. If this exercise make you want to pull your hair out , the tongue is just too damn short ! However lengthening it and attaching it at the same crossmember will further aggrivate your bending of the puney crossmember as you now have a longer lever to pry with. I have replaced , lengthened and reinforced the tongues on each and every one of the 4 builds I have constructed. I simply bolted the first one with grade 5 bolts. Andrew is correct drilling the crossmember further weakens it however if you are now running the new replacement tongue the full length of the trailer you are now sharing the down force load with 4 or more crossmembers. So the drilling is now doable as the down force is shared by multiple crossmembers. As a bonus you can shim down the rear of the tube and utilize it as a rear reciever for a bike rack. grill mount, rear cargo rack and other ideas. It seems the general concensus on the board is most stock trailer tongues are between 18 and 24 inches too short for good road manners.

If you really want to leave the stock tongue and have the floor help to contribute its strength you might concider a square bottomed "U" bolt or two thru the floor. Drill the holes thru the floor from underneath and then drop the u bolt or bolts in from above place the crossplate and install the nuts from underneath. This leave the smooth round rod under the mattress. I would add a shortl length of 1 1/2 to 2" flat stock to spread the concentrated load over the floor acting as a large "washer" to eliminate the crushing of the floor sheet goods.

[angib]

However lengthening it and attaching it at the same crossmember will further aggrivate your bending of the puney crossmember as you now have a longer lever to pry with.

Yes, a longer tongue is a weaker trailer - lengthening the tongue requires a rethink of most of the front of the frame.

Attaching the tongue to several cross-members doesn't increase the strength much as most of the tongue load will be carried on the first and last cross-member. But increasing the spacing between the first and last cross-member (which is what you do if fixing the tongue to several) makes a big improvement.

[nelsonrx]

Andrew and Bob - thank you both for your recommendations and your help..and for answering my PM so quickly

So, just to make sure I have this straight, I can secure the flooring down to the trailer, with with 3/8 inch bolts or u-bolts, and that should add enough strength to support a ~ 1000 lbs widget? Also, it seems like I should extend the tongue by about 18-24 inches to provide more turning clearance...did I get that right?

I guess my next question would, is it fairly easy to come across a 2x2 frame-tube to extend the tongue? This is my first time ever dealing with a trailer or metal for that matter (I'm a wood worker), so I'm kind of lost as to where you'd go to get something like this..perhaps just a trailer dealer?

[Treeview]

Is there a reason for not wanting welding? Is it because you want to do it yourself and you don't weld or a concern about the strength of welds?

You'd be surprised how cheap it is to have welding done. If you do the prep work like fabricating and surface prep ie...remove paint, rust and surface scale. That way you're doing the 'monkey work' and letting the weldor do the skilled work.

Bolting, either through bolts or u-bolts aren't as good a solution as melting metal together.

You can get tubing from any steel dealer which will be cheaper than buying from a trailer dealer. Or...find a welding shop, they'll have racks full of steel.

Here's a great resource:

http://www.angib.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/t ... tear84.htm

Tom

[angib]

Just extending the tongue (on its own) requires a major frame rebuild and probably isn't worth it - get a custom trailer made.

But lengthening the tongue and altering how it attaches is quite do-able. As others have done. the logical idea is two add diagonal braces to connect the coupler directly to the frame sides. Getting a welding shop to put on a longer 2x2 tongue and welding on two diagonals should not cost a fortune. I don't consider doing this by bolting is practical.

By the time you've modified a TSC trailer this way, it would be worth finding out how much a custom one would cost.

[working on it]

nelsonrx... When welding the tongue to my old frame, I used a 6' length of 3"x3"x .1875" square tube, 40" protruding from under the platform into a welded coupler. The remaining 32" is welded to a center spine of 2"x3"x .125" rectangular tubing. The square tube is also welded to the front and second crossmembers, and the rectangular tube runs front front to rear. Plenty strong. The 4'x8' x 1/2" birch plywood floor has 8 3/8 - 16 carriage bolt , grade 2, 4250 psi proof strength, 5750 psi tensile strength with large washers thru the second and third frame crossmembers, and tek screws thru the wood (also PL adhered) to the frame on the perimeter. Then a 1/4" red oak plywood top was titebonded and screwed all around its perimeter, covering the tops of the carriage bolts and tek screws. Overkill. My original goal was the same as yours, 1000 lbs. And our trailers were similar in design, at first (see album). In your case, the suggested diagonal crossbraces and a good quality plywood bolted as I did would work fine. Plywood has good structural qualities, and was even used in the Mosquito bomber in WWII.

[Sonoma ZR2]

Here is a thread that discuss the basic frame you are looking at. viewtopic.php?f=35&t=22538 I'd suggest checking into what a local welder can do for you. I got that frame and after all the modifications that I did to the trailer I should have built a trailer from scratch. Hate admitting it but ended up spending almost as much reinforcing the trailer as it cost to begin with. I then had to have it sandblasted to take the cheap paint job off and repainted properly. Because when I drove down three miles of gravel the trailers front end was just about down to bare metal. When they make this trailer it is not primed prior to painting. You can see the way my frame ended up looking like here. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... d772f3cc79

[nelsonrx]

As Always thank you all for your comments/suggestions. I'm sure I'll be revisiting this post soon...