Has anyone tried building with western red cedar?

[mikeschn]

Has anyone tried building with western red cedar?

My thought is to build the sidewalls from western red cedar, and let the spars be western red cedar too. Then cover both with aluminum. That way, even though each screw hole is a possible entry point for water, the cedar will resist...

The only plywood would be the floor... and I suppose even that could be cedar.

I'd like to build a Winter Warrior that doesn't delaminate. Any thoughts?

Mike...

[Larry C]

Has anyone tried building with western red cedar?

My thought is to build the sidewalls from western red cedar, and let the spars be western red cedar too. Then cover both with aluminum. That way, even though each screw hole is a possible entry point for water, the cedar will resist...

The only plywood would be the floor... and I suppose even that could be cedar.

I'd like to build a Winter Warrior that doesn't delaminate. Any thoughts?

Mike...

Mike,
I am using WRC extensively on my build. It's for 2 reasons, light weight, and rot resistance. My interior walls are cedar strips, both WRC and Eastern White Cedar. However, they are covered with glass/epoxy. My interior wall framing is WRC that I am doing now. The outside walls are going to be 4MM marine plywood glassed. I think the failure you have seen with plywood is because it was not marine plywood, and it was not glassed.
The use of aluminum skins is a great idea, but unless water intrusion is kept at bay, what is going on under that aluminum? We don't all live in California, Arizona or other dry areas, or have covered storage. I live in a very wet state and keeping water out is my major goal. IMO/ marine plywood, cedar, epoxy (not the penetrating crap), and fiberglass are all worth the effort.

$.02

Larry C

[mikeschn]

Michigan is just as wet as NY, so I hear what you are saying. Also, my trailers have to live outside all year long.

I may have to get a sunbrella cover made for my next teardrop, but meanwhile I am trying to stack the odds in my favor.

WRC is light and moisture resistant. So is aluminum. And I can keep the water out...

But tell me. How moisture resistant is WRC. What if I drive in a screw that doesn't seal properly, and the water gets under the screw head, under the aluminum, and drips down the inside between the aluminum and the WRC? When does that become a problem?

Mike...

[Martiangod]

Cedar will still rot, especially white.
It is just more resistant to rot then fir.
Pine is as good IMO
Could do a tongue and groove red cedar floor make sure you end seal
Now state side I know its more prevelant then here but can you not get composit studding, ripps just like wood, use the same tools and fasteners
Where you are going to fasten aluminum, you could run butyl tape on the corners and studs before hanging the aluminum

[Martiangod]

Studding and spars with Ipe Decking ripped
But you would have to predrill every screw, extremly resistant to rot fungas and mold
Need to wear a resperator when cutting.
My Neigbore made pads out of ipe to put under his trailer tires, those pads have been on the wet ground for 5 years now and show no sign of degradation

Plastic lumbersounds interesting

http://plasticlumberyard.com/plasticlumber.htm

[mikeschn]

That IPE decking looks really good. It would be worth it... $2.09 ln ft. Yes, it's pricey, but if it never needs replacing, it's worth it.

Mike...

[jonw]

That IPE decking looks really good. It would be worth it... $2.09 ln ft. Yes, it's pricey, but if it never needs replacing, it's worth it.

Mike...

Isn't that pretty heavy? I had some on a deck a few years ago and at least I thought it was...

[Martiangod]

Isn't that pretty heavy? I had some on a deck a few years ago and at least I thought it was...

It is, but ripped down to the demensions used for Tear construction???
Even if you just used it for botton plate and corners then red cedar in between.
Who knows, just throwin stuff out there

[Larry C]

Cedar will still rot, especially white.
It is just more resistant to rot then fir.
Pine is as good IMO
Could do a tongue and groove red cedar floor make sure you end seal
Now state side I know its more prevelant then here but can you not get composit studding, ripps just like wood, use the same tools and fasteners
Where you are going to fasten aluminum, you could run butyl tape on the corners and studs before hanging the aluminum

Any wood will rot. WRC just happens to be one of MOST rot resistant. Pine is not rot resistant! Fir is good but heavy. Everything is a trade off. However, cedar is an excellent choice. I have a fence I installed 25 years ago using WRC, knots and all. It is exposed to south facing weather year round. The ends are not sealed at all and are facing skyward. There is not a single sign of deterioration on the entire fence.It even has mold on it that I just wash off every year. The galvanized nails used to install it are all rusty, but no rot around them. The framing for the fence is pressure treated lumber and it's not doing as good as the cedar.
Composite studs (coke bottles) is the heaviest lumber known to man! Also it warps easily in the thinner dimensions.

Just my opinion...

[halfdome, Danny]

That IPE decking looks really good. It would be worth it... $2.09 ln ft. Yes, it's pricey, but if it never needs replacing, it's worth it.

Mike...

Ipe is sometimes difficult to find. An alternate wood is Goncalo Alves or commonly known as Tiger Wood.
I did a deck in Goncalo Alves in the Seattle area about 8-10 years ago.
It's so strong you only need it in 3/4" for the deck surface but the joists need to be 16" O/C.
It's specific gravity is .95 so it's quite heavy like Ipe which has a specific gravity of 1.08.
A specific gravity of 1.00, the wood will sink in water.
I had to fix a toilet there a couple months ago so I inspected it & it's just as solid as the day I built it.
Western Red Cedar has a SG of .37.
The plastic & sawdust decking is very heavy and pooches/crumbles where fasteners are used.
I have it for my deck & fence cap since the Cedar rotted away.
Personally, I wouldn't use it for anything else.
I still think for the money and light weightness Poplar (SG of .45) is the best choice for trailer framing & spars.
My source of wood information is from my book "World Woods In Color" by William A. Lincoln. Danny

[mikeschn]

Thanks for that tidbit Larry. So there is hope for WRC after all!

Mike...

[mikeschn]

That IPE decking looks really good. It would be worth it... $2.09 ln ft. Yes, it's pricey, but if it never needs replacing, it's worth it.

Mike...

Ipe is sometimes difficult to find. An alternate wood is Goncalo Alves or commonly known as Tiger Wood.
I did a deck in Goncalo Alves in the Seattle area about 8-10 years ago.
It's so strong you only need it in 3/4" for the deck surface but the joists need to be 16" O/C.
It's specific gravity is .95 so it's quite heavy like Ipe which has a specific gravity of 1.08.
A specific gravity of 1.00, the wood will sink in water.
I had to fix a toilet there a couple months ago so I inspected it & it's just as solid as the day I built it.
Western Red Cedar has a SG of .37.
The plastic & sawdust decking is very heavy and pooches/crumbles where fasteners are used.
I have it for my deck & fence cap since the Cedar rotted away.
Personally, I wouldn't use it for anything else.
I still think for the money and light weightness Poplar (SG of .45) is the best choice for trailer framing & spars.
My source of wood information is from my book "World Woods In Color" by William A. Lincoln. Danny

Danny,

have they ever used Popular on boats? Just wondering...

Mike...

[Larry C]

Michigan is just as wet as NY, so I hear what you are saying. Also, my trailers have to live outside all year long.

I may have to get a sunbrella cover made for my next teardrop, but meanwhile I am trying to stack the odds in my favor.

WRC is light and moisture resistant. So is aluminum. And I can keep the water out...

But tell me. How moisture resistant is WRC. What if I drive in a screw that doesn't seal properly, and the water gets under the screw head, under the aluminum, and drips down the inside between the aluminum and the WRC? When does that become a problem?

Mike...

I still think WRC is about as good as it gets unless you want to use aluminum for the framing instead of wood. Take a look at the way I built my floor, I coated everything inside with epoxy. I intend to do the same on my walls. Any water intrusion first has to get by the epoxy, and then the rot resistant cedar. Is it perfect.. no! but it's pretty good. Boats are built this way and survive quite well in very harsh environments.
A boat building method for screws into wood that may or may not be possible attaching aluminum skins is to oversize drill the wood where the screw will go and filling the oversize hole with thickened epoxy, and pre-drilling a pilot hole for the screw. The screw will be threaded into epoxy, not wood. If all inner framing wood is also coated with epoxy, even a leak around a screw should be less of a problem.

Just my thoughts...

[halfdome, Danny]

Danny,

have they ever used Popular on boats? Just wondering...

Mike...

Mike from what I've found the answer is no. Some use it for interior use in boats but that's it.
My book says:

it's perishable and liable to insect attack.
The sapwood which is a large portion of the tree is permeable for preservative treatment.

In a trailer environment insect infestation wouldn't necessarily be the case unless there was a leak and the moisture attracted them.
The key to preserving these trailers is to build properly and the liberal use of sealants.
My teardrops should never have an insect problem, unless they develop a taste for plam.
Danny

[Larry C]

That IPE decking looks really good. It would be worth it... $2.09 ln ft. Yes, it's pricey, but if it never needs replacing, it's worth it.

Mike...

Ipe is sometimes difficult to find. An alternate wood is Goncalo Alves or commonly known as Tiger Wood.
I did a deck in Goncalo Alves in the Seattle area about 8-10 years ago.
It's so strong you only need it in 3/4" for the deck surface but the joists need to be 16" O/C.
It's specific gravity is .95 so it's quite heavy like Ipe which has a specific gravity of 1.08.
A specific gravity of 1.00, the wood will sink in water.
I had to fix a toilet there a couple months ago so I inspected it & it's just as solid as the day I built it.
Western Red Cedar has a SG of .37.
The plastic & sawdust decking is very heavy and pooches/crumbles where fasteners are used.
I have it for my deck & fence cap since the Cedar rotted away.
Personally, I wouldn't use it for anything else.
I still think for the money and light weightness Poplar (SG of .45) is the best choice for trailer framing & spars.
My source of wood information is from my book "World Woods In Color" by William A. Lincoln. Danny

Danny,
I certainly value your opinion, but the Poplar we have in the East, actually Tulip Poplar is the name of our version. It's a very nice wood to work with, but has an ugly greenish color to it, and is considered an indoor only wood to be painted only. It looks terrible finished clear. Also, it has little rot Resistance, and it's fairly heavy. The Poplar you have in the West may be a completely different species with better rot resistance.