Under bunk Storage and AC for Compact design

[Ravenous]

Looking at the Compact design on Andrew's page. Just looking at interior layouts--I like the raised bunk dinette in general, giving one some sitting up space. However the trade off always seems to be that the space under the bunks, while theoretically can be used for storage, is inconvenient to access. So the space is either wasted or used for things like screentents or items that you get out when you set up camp, and don't put up until you break camp. I was wondering if it would be feasible to put swing up access doors in the sides, to get to that space, or would that just be asking for trouble with waterproofing or leaks.
Also, on that particular design, where would be the best place to mount an AC? Front and center? or a slide out where the closet/furnace compartment would go? Or somewhere else entirely.
Also, being 6'2" I am interested in the foldup top. I read Sharon's MyAway build (what a fantastic job--what a pleasure to read--so many many creative touches) and got a little lost trying to understand the issues and solutions with her fold up top. The additional complication was caused by the side panels being taller and therefore overlapping each other when folded down, right? weatherstripping on the fronts of the side panels added additional thickness.
i didn't quite follow the solutions she came up with (I'm sure my inadequacy). But if one were building the fold up top to the rear as in Andrews design, would there be a way to add say 4 more inches in height, without creating to much complication. Would it be as simple as widening the opening 2 inches on each side? Would that be feasible? When having access to designs as well thought out and engineered as Andrew's I hesitate to tinker without concern for unintended consequences.
Just thinking. I still love the looks of the 2+2 above all, but my wife and I are starting to think that having extra kids bunks is secondary to having comfortable inside space for just the two of us, with a portapot for less serious nighttime use. So we are looking at raised bunks separated by an aisle for getting up and down without disturbing each other. we could keep the option of using the dinette in up or down position, but would likely stash it under one of the sides most of the time and not use it as a table or extension.
Before i buy lumber and start trying to figure it out in 3D, I was hoping someone could tell me if the higher top idea, the lift up outside door accessing the underbunk storage space idea, and where the best location for a tiny AC might be on this design. Any feedback from you experienced folks would be greatly appreciated. thanks,
Rhett

[S. Heisley]

Rhett, Thanks for your fine compliments!

I imagine that Andrew will chime in here; but I will answer what I can. I suspect that Andrew will be pleased that you want to build the Compact. (I think that MyAway probably gave him a headache, if not nightmares, as it didn't turn out much like the one he originally planned.)

My 'inventive ways' of making those larger sides fit? I asked too late why the opening was the size that was sketched in Andrew's Compact. It was so that you could use a single piece of plywood and wouldn't have plywood seams in the lifting roof. Also, I was making MyAway as small as I could while still getting in everything that I wanted, so that I could stay reasonably close to the vehicle's lines. (That bought me "decent" gas mileage for a standy. I get 'in-town' mpg when towing, loosing just 4 highway mpg over not towing, and I think that's pretty good.) Andrew made his compact 5' tall, with the folding sides only adding a tad more height. Mine is 4' tall and the deck is just a little over 5x8’, thus, requiring more height in the folding sides. So, yes, if you need to make the roof opening wider, you could do it; but recognize that you will have two issues with that:

1) You will want to seal the plywood joining seam very well to prevent leaks.
2) The bigger you make the lifting roof, the more it will weigh and the harder it will be to lift.

My lifting roof weighed in at about 70 pounds; but, by lifting it from the end, I am able to "cut off" 35 of those pounds. I simply use a boat's pad eye and a push-pull pole to raise and lower the roof from the outside. To keep your lifting roof's weight down, you could either shorten it a bit (might mean making the folding sides even taller) or make part of the roof a 'foamie'. You could also cut 6 pounds off by not adding the ‘eve’ that I added to the front of my roof; and, you could cut 3 pounds off by not having the non-powered vent in the lifting roof. I must tell you that I love, love, love my non-powered vent and would put it exactly where I have it now, if I were to do it over again. Having the stove inside makes the cabin heat up fast; and, even with all the windows and doors open, I could not make as much of a difference as simply opening that vent. Because the heat rises so high, the moment that vent gets opened, the heat gets instantaneously sucked out! To me, it becomes an engineering wonder! (Simple things jazz me. HaHa!) So, if you don’t add the non-powered vent like I did, you’ll probably want a powered vent in a side wall.

As far as the space under the benches goes, I’ve thought something similar about that; but, I wouldn’t be comfortable with having them open from the outside, both because of possible leakage issues and because you would need to go outside to open them. I have thought of maybe adding a drawer under the one bench or possibly a cabinet door that opens downward. However, because of the small size and the way my benches work, it isn’t a big issue for me. I have small hinged areas that lift up for storage of clothes, etc. and have left the other part a lift-off so I can get at my water tank and can put away extra bed parts easily. As an added benefit, I can access the hinged areas via the back door; plus, they also work as reclining backs:


(Night-time winter camping in the garage.)

[rebapuck]

I always think drawers are easier to access than a front door on a bench seat. A drawer doesn't require one to get down on your knees ( and then up!). But in such a small space, where do you stand when the drawer is pulled out? Maybe two drawers. Or the lift top.

[S. Heisley]

How a builder develops his or her cabinet is dependent upon the builder's design. A builder/designer should go through the imaginary motions of standing/stooping while opening cabinets, pulling up mattress cushions, etc. They should do that when in the planning stage and again, when they are actually building the basic structures. If a person does that, they will most likely know if they have a serious design error.

My personal thought on the under-bench storage was to break up the space in such a way that it was easier to use. In other words, part of the space might have a hinged top lid and maybe part would have a side drawer or cabinet door or a simple lid that lifts off. In mine, there is always some place to stand, slouch or kneel while accessing the space.

With some under-bed storage areas, what I've seen done is that the part that is hardest to get to is used to store things that you rarely need to access, such as a water tank, an encased, vented battery, certain tools, etc. Often, that part of the bed/bench platform is hinged on top and flips up. Of course, it is best to partition off sections so that the item that you are storing in an easy-to-reach section doesn't slide into a hard-to-reach area or knock a wire or hose loose or...? Also, remember to add finger holes, to make it easier to lift platform sections.

[Ravenous]

Sharon!
i am so excited you saw my post and i got a reply from the Leaf Lady herself
i can't tell you how much i enjoyed all your lovely pictures and sharing of your thought processes. And I am somewhat in awe of your skills and abilities.
the picture you just posted, snug and comfy with a book in your lovely little trailer, was delightful. i can relate to garage camping. when i was building my little cuddy cabin boat, i spent several nights in it, before the exterior was even painted and while it was still up on blocks in my barn.
i take your point about outside access doors, i was thinking about having access from inside And outside, but now that you mention it, it seems a lot of extra complication for very little advantage. i suppose, if i section my cushions so I can easily get at the storage underneath, maybe use a combination of drawers and other storage devices. in fact this is just the type of design problem i can get jazzed about solving. who knows, maybe I'll come up with something really elegant and efficient. it could happen. i believe my amatuer boatbuilding skills will help somewhat with the seams in the roof ply, nothing that a nice scarf joint, epoxy, and fiberglass tape can't handle. i appreciate your sharing about your passive vent in the raised ceiling area. makes total sense, and i will definitely be stealing (uh I mean incorporating) that feature if I go with the Compact
design.
it gets really really hot and buggy down hear in coastal georgia, and i think having AC would really extend our camping season. i was originally planning to put one in a tongue box on the front when i was considering the 2+2. but in the compact design, if you put it in that location, you wouldn't have access to the controls with the bed leaf in place.
it turns out that i have an area rug in my living room that is 112" by 70", which is so close to the 114.25" X 68' Compact floor that I think it is an omen. i have just spent an hour or so with a measuring tape and some some painters tape mapping things out while the dog and cat gave me puzzled looks. it is quite a spacious area.
i like to cook, but i think i will go with a single burner butane 'caterer style' stove like I use in our boat. really and truly, I expect we would really only cook inside occasionally (bad weather) except for dianne's coffee, which must be prepared quietly before waking her. if shore power is available, i might just put in a coffee maker. i wonder if you can run a coffee-maker off of an inverter without too much battery drain? right now I use the stove, a kettle, and a french press. the french press makes great coffee, but it is a pain to clean. and getting out the stove and aluminum water kettle tends to make a lot of racket, and i sometimes wake the dragon before I have the antidote ready (Okay, I exaggerate for comic effect here). the incredible woman who, against all reason, puts up with me and camps and boats with me, asks so very little. 1. comfortable bedding, nothing fancy. 2. reasonable temperature (especially no hot sleeping). 3. not to have to make a treck in the middle of the night to pee (i'm with her on that one) 3. coffee first thing. reasonable conditions all.
i also take the point about the weight of the roof. Wow, 70lbs! i will have to do my best to keep any resizing from not increasing the weight too much beyond that. i don't want the raising of the roof to turn into a major event, or something that dianne can't do as well. i will read up some more about the foamie constructions for ideas. what a wonderful resource this is! thanks Sharon for the feedback. And thanks also to Judy with the interesting looking "shoebox" that I would love to see interior photos of. and I agree that the getting UP is the hard part!
I appreciate any ideas, advice, that anyone here has to offer.
Peace,
Rhett

[S. Heisley]

Rhett, your boat building skills will help you immensely. That will put you miles ahead in the design and build process.

Best wishes on your build!

[angib]

I think it's easy to get 'too clever' with underbunk storage. Opening doors to the outside may well be useful (maybe on one side only?) but complex internal arrangements don't seem justified. Whatever you do, it will be difficult to access the storage, just because your body is in the way. I don't believe there is any way that two people could be accessing the storage at once (waay too little space), so plan on sitting on one bench while accessing the storage under the other one - then a lifting top is by far the easiest way.

But I guess the plans don't make clear that all the bunk top panels are meant to be loose - that's what the finger holes are for.

Drawers are complex, add unnecessary weight and weaken the bunks - as it is the bunk fronts hold up the tops, if you cut them out, you have to add yet more weight to hold the tops up.

In theory, yes, the lifting top can be made wider so that it goes higher. But there may be enough height in there already - it's 84" from the floor to the highest point of the lifting roof underside and there is 74" height over a length of 41" - so the whole galley length - as shown in the shaded area below:



If you widen the lifting roof so it goes higher, all the angles and dimensions of the lifting roof parts (except the top) change - it is not just a question of adding 4" to those also.

It doesn't often get hot enough to need an A/C over here, so I don't tend to think about them! The logical place would be in the top of the closet, just under the roof. As others have done, this might need to be on slides with a door in the side through which the A/C is pushed when camping. There probably isn't enough width in the closet to fit an A/C so the closet may have to 'dog leg' over the porta-potty - I don't that as a problem, as men cannot use the porta-potty standing up anyway as the side roof is in the way. You could even consider putting the A/C entirely above the porta-potty - it'll give you a cold head when 'sitting' there, but would work otherwise.

[angib]

On the subject of Compacts, here is a website of somebody's restoration of one of the many Compact clones.

http://www.sagatrailers.com/

[Ravenous]

Andrew,
thanks so much for the information. i was reading the plans to say that the side panel was 57.5" and the peak of the folding roof to be 20.5" for a total of 78". i am not sure why that is not the case, but if the roof actually peaks at 84" then it would be more than tall enough for even me as drawn. my wife is short, so no worries there. most likely I am overlooking something in your plans that accounts for the additional 6".
thanks for the thoughts on the placement of an AC. my worries about putting the weight up high and on one side are much allayed by the fact that you suggest it. i would definitely build a box with a slide out for it.
i Did understand from your plans that the bunk panels were loose, and were in fact 5 panels with holes for lifting. i have a similar arrangement in my boat, but unlike your design, the middle board is 3/4" ply and is laid on top of one bunk under the cushions and the cushions are two long single pieces of foam with upholstery stapled to a piece of 1/8 in ply. so we right now we have 3 or 4 spare lifejackets and a couple gallons of 'emergency water' and a manual bilge pump that we've never used stored there. of course boat camping is a different situation, as we are not setting up camp when we get to where we beach or throw anchor, so we wind up storing a lot of stuff, bedding,pillows, clothing, books, in bags on on top of the bunks. perhaps my concerns are overblown and i am comparing to dissimilar situations.
i certainly take your point about being too clever with drawers. the lifting tops are simplicity and i believe by making my cushions in 5 pieces to match the tops, I will then be better able to store things below. perhaps i will use that space for my battery, tools and other more permanent items. not that big of a deal.
thanks for the link to the campster site. it definitely gives me some ideas.
years and years ago, before i got the full blown case of the boatbuilding disease, i stumbled on some pictures you posted online of a nice solid bright finished scow with white epoxy fillets. i really loved the neat look of that boat. i am fascinated by all your teardrop/trailer designs and hope to build one--with as little modification as possible.
thanks again for weighing in, and if you could straighten me out about the standing height in the galley area, that would be great.
peace,
rhett

[Ravenous]

How a builder develops his or her cabinet is dependent upon the builder's design. A builder/designer should go through the imaginary motions of standing/stooping while opening cabinets, pulling up mattress cushions, etc. They should do that when in the planning stage and again, when they are actually building the basic structures. If a person does that, they will most likely know if they have a serious design error.

My personal thought on the under-bench storage was to break up the space in such a way that it was easier to use. In other words, part of the space might have a hinged top lid and maybe part would have a side drawer or cabinet door or a simple lid that lifts off. In mine, there is always some place to stand, slouch or kneel while accessing the space.

With some under-bed storage areas, what I've seen done is that the part that is hardest to get to is used to store things that you rarely need to access, such as a water tank, an encased, vented battery, certain tools, etc. Often, that part of the bed/bench platform is hinged on top and flips up. Of course, it is best to partition off sections so that the item that you are storing in an easy-to-reach section doesn't slide into a hard-to-reach area or knock a wire or hose loose or...? Also, remember to add finger holes, to make it easier to lift platform sections.

great suggestions all! i think i will do just that with the harder to reach places. thanks.

[bdosborn]

Boy I gotta say I think you guys missed the mark on the under bunk storage and exterior doors. Its probably one of the most useful functions I added to the Boxcar. Its perfect for all the outside stuff like chairs, mats, dutch ovens, grey water tanks, etc that you'll set up every time you camp. Its also very easy to implement with cargo doors from eBay, which aren't very expensive at that. I have a total of 5 (!) doors on my trailer and none of them leak.



Sharon is right on in regards to the roof weight; my roof sure came out heavier than I thought it would.

Bruce

P.S. We have access through the bunk as well. Its such a pain to tear the bed apart to get to the storage that it's only used anymore for access to utilities located under the bed.

[mikeschn]

Bruce,

What do I search for on ebay? I found a few hits under "cargo door" e.g. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CARGO-DOOR-R-O- ... 5a&vxp=mtr

any other good search terms?

Mike...

[bdosborn]

Try "RV Cargo doors"...

[bdosborn]

Mike,

Okay we're back; I hate posting with my phone so I keep them a little shorter than I mean to. Yes, cargo doors or RV cargo doors is the search term I use. One thing to keep in mind is that all cargo doors use the same key. Yes, that's right, all of them. So plan on getting another key if you really want to lock the door. I replaced my keyed locks with a combi-cam so I don't even need a key:



Bruce

P.S. We just got back from a quick overnight trip out to Chatfield Reservoir. Had a cocktail(s), grilled steaks and watched a movie. Great first trip of the season!

[IndyTom]

Mike,

Look for the seller "Bottom Dollar Surplus" he sells salvaged RV parts and always has cargo doors cheap. He is located in Bonson Mi.

Tom