Is there a good application for hydrogen?

[mikeschn]

I have to ask a question.

One of the members has been posting about hydrogen. It actually looks more like spam, so his posts have been getting deleted.

But the question I have is, is there a good application for hydrogen while teardropping? Can it cook dinner? Keep you warm or cool? Keep your food cold? Keep your lights running?

I don't know anything about hydrogen, so you guys will have to tell me.

Thanks,

Mike...

[Ratkity]

It blows up nicely - not something I'd want until a hydrogen delivery system could be designed properly. There was talk of a hydrogen car early on in the green movement, but I haven't heard them overcoming the obstacles.

Hugs,
Ratkity

[eamarquardt]

Hydrogen is a nice, clean, and in some respects safe fuel. It burns hot and cleaner than any other fuel as its only combustion product is water vapor.

It has several drawbacks. First it is a gas (unless really cooled and compressed) so it takes up more room for its energy potential than the amount of gasoline that will produce the same amount of power. Second the vessels used to contain hydrogen are pressurized to thousands of pounds per square inch pressure or are cooled pretty close to absolute zero. Leaks can be a big problem at the temperatures and pressures involved. Leaks, as with virtually any fuel, can result in explosions Finally elemental hydrogen isn't abundant in nature. There is lots of it around but is is almost always part of a larger molecule. To produce hydrogen you have to break down an existing molecule (like water or oil) to produce the hydrogen gas. This takes more energy than you'll get when you burn the hydrogen so it's not cost effective at this point in time.

The most common ways to produce hydrogen are using electricity (electrolysis) or by processing oil and getting the hydrogen from oil. Getting hydrogen from oil isn't great as you're still dependent on oil and still releasing CO2 into the atmosphere. Producing hydrogen from water (electrolysis) takes a considerable amount of electricity and, as noted above, uses more energy than you'll get when you burn the hydrogen.

If and when we get to a point where we can generate copious amounts of electricity from sources other than fossil fuels we should be able to move towards an increased use of hydrogen as a "portable fuel". It will require a new distribution infrastructure and considerable "awareness" of the hazards of using super cold or highly compressed gas.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Gus

[angib]

I believe hydrogen power (storage/transmission) is a bit of a red herring. I can see it may get used for airplanes as it does seem to offer a way to keep flying without an oil-based fuel, though at a high cost. But it is just a battery in a gaseous form as you have to create the energy to make the hydrogen in the first place.

The slightly evil side of hydrogen is that it can be burnt in an internal combustion engine, so car makers love it - they can pretend to look to the future while encouraging the public to believe there will be a simple technological solution to oil becoming scarcer and more expensive. I think the way we drive now will be a distant dream to our great-grandchildren - they will be amazed that ordinary people could afford to drive as they wished, just as we find it odd that people of modest wealth had a domestic servant or two a few generations ago.

[Forrest747]

Well you could use it as a power source as in a fuel cell, where hydrogen and O2 come together and make DC voltage like in teh shuttle and apollo programs. "Mad Jack we have a problem" Worst case scenario is to nuke the large RV that is making fun of your trailer.

[ATXKJ]

We mix it with Oxygen and form a really good dielectric on Silicon.... works great in the 60nm transistor range
once you get below that the k factor is off - they start looking at hafnium or whatever.....


The Spam guys start talking about making Hydrogen from water and car batteries....
they just leave out the second law of thermodynamics stuff....

[eamarquardt]

We mix it with Oxygen and form a really good dielectric on Silicon.... works great in the 60nm transistor range
once you get below that the k factor is off - they start looking at hafnium or whatever.....


The Spam guys start talking about making Hydrogen from water and car batteries....
they just leave out the second law of thermodynamics stuff....

You can double the efficiency of electrolysis if a flux capacitor is used in the circuit.

In a previous "chapter" on the forum, a fellow told me what I could do with my "laws of thermodynamics"!

I have it on good "authority" that our esteemed legislators in Congress are gonna repeal the laws as they conflict with some of their programs!

Scientists have already developed an LED that produces more light power than the power going into the LED! Magic? Not quite! There is an explanation.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/201 ... cient-leds

Cheers,

Gus

[mikeschn]

So for camping and teardroppers, there's really no good use for hydrogen?

Mike...

[eamarquardt]

So for camping and teardroppers, there's really no good use for hydrogen?

Mike...

Nope. It's a lot more expensive, harder to get, less dense/per unit of energy, and you'd have to modify the jets of whatever you wanted to burn it in. Propane is more cost effective if you wanna use a gas.

Cheers,

Gus

[oicu812]

http://www.nypa.gov/services/profiles/c ... elcell.htm

I remember when they put this in. Cheaper than running new power lines.

[CliffinGA]

Yesterday evening on a local radio show (Eric Ericson) they were talking about alternative fuels and they were talking about a couple of scientist who had made a very efficient hydrogen converting for cars. The federal goverment confiscated all there materials and said if they made any of them again they would go to jail and be hit with hefty fines by the EPA ! All because it used a sliver of uranium for the conversion process!!

Cliff

[eamarquardt]

Yesterday evening on a local radio show (Eric Ericson) they were talking about alternative fuels and they were talking about a couple of scientist who had made a very efficient hydrogen converting for cars. The federal goverment confiscated all there materials and said if they made any of them again they would go to jail and be hit with hefty fines by the EPA ! All because it used a sliver of uranium for the conversion process!!

Cliff

That would seem to suggest the weren't playing by the rules. I wouldn't want them playing in my back yard w/o supervision.

Cheers,

Guds

[Corwin C]

There are definitely good applications for hydrogen ... my personal belief is that hydrogen will be one of the major answers to reducing oil dependency. As others have stated, there are some obstacles before it will be practical. However, those obstacles are ones that I believe can be realistically dealt with. It is a challenge to store and handle, but not impossible (NASA uses it every day). There are energy losses in the production of hydrogen, however, there are losses in EVERY energy/fuel production method. The hydrogen itself when used is probably the cleanest fuel available (the by product is essential to life), but producing hydrogen can be messy depending on how it is done.

As with any alternative energy source, we need to continue to research and develop new technologies for the future while still addressing our energy needs for today and tomorrow. The current trend of artificially forcing change using regulations and dubious environmental research seems foolish to me. These new technologies need time to improve and mature and we need to encourage their development, but it's going to be some time before those new technologies are ready to take the place of current energy sources.

[eamarquardt]

As with any alternative energy source, we need to continue to research and develop new technologies for the future while still addressing our energy needs for today and tomorrow. The current trend of artificially forcing change using regulations and dubious environmental research seems foolish to me. These new technologies need time to improve and mature and we need to encourage their development, but it's going to be some time before those new technologies are ready to take the place of current energy sources.

Yes!

http://www.nypa.gov/services/profiles/centralparkfuelcell.htm

I remember when they put this in. Cheaper than running new power lines.

It's running on natural gas (methane) and using methane to produce the hydrogen. Also it generates heat which can offset heating bills during the winter.d It also produces the same amout of CO2 as anything using natural gas as a fuel.
Cheers,

Gus

[Martinup]

Thank you all and in particular Mike for your interaction:

I hope to introduce a whole lot of information to everyone on Hydrogen use in Tear Drop Land.

This is what I am personally be pursueing for My Tear Drop Build to start with. I am busy like everyone else so Baby Steps.

" How To Modify An Off the Shelf Genset to Run on entirely on Hydrogen"

If you want to learn how to do this follow along and have some fun.

http://open-source-energy.org/forum/sho ... hp?tid=383

This demonstrates Proof of concept and will lead you to the plans, technical detail to be able to do this yourself Safety is of the utmost and due keep it in mind. Not to worry because this group will help you with all that. If you are mechanically orientated the change in Timing on the gensete maybe required. This is prodominantly an, Effort Thing", and you will be suprised how little you will need to outlay in dollars.

Has anyone seen this?

http://geetinternational.com/GEET%20-%2 ... 5B1%5D.pdf


Again thanks to all and I look forward to interacting with the members here. . . More to come,

Martin