Fiberglass tape issue on seam

[StPatron]

+1

[starleen2]

Thats why I'm doing it Forrester. I saw Starleen use it on the Green Lantern build and decided to do it on mine when I decided to paint and not due the Aluminium.
Cliff

Thanks Cliff for the mention

The foam for the mattress came in the other day - I cut it to size and tried it out - pretty comfy
to apply the epoxy, I found these little foam rollers

They're called Whizz roller system - high density Foam. I used them first to apply the sealer on the interior panel - they worked great. So I thought I'd give em a try for the epoxy. They make several sizes. I'm using the 4" foam rollers. They are the same width of the fiberglass tape. I get about three strips down (8 oz of epoxy per strip) with a single roller before it starts to set on me. After the first strip of tape applied - I figured out the best method. First I lay down a good rolled rich strip of epoxy then apply the tape - then roll over the top until the fiberglass is wetted out. Next, I use a squeegee to smooth out the edges. Then sand the edges to get a level edge - then apply a second top coat. I repeat the same process on every seam and edge. I ordered a 50 yrd roll - I think I have about 5 yds left!

+1

I think this pictures shows what fiberglass tape can do. One thing fiberglass tape does not like is making 90* bends or corners (sure you can do it – but it takes more skill than the general hobbyist has time for). However of you allow for a small radius – you’ll get a smooth rounded edge with go air gaps in the tape

[StPatron]

Thanks, Scott. Like Cliff, I was convinced to use it based on your build documentation and advice.

I used 3" wide tape from the boat building suppliers, Chesapeake Light Craft.

http://www.clcboats.com/shop/products/boat-building-supplies-epoxy-fiberglass-plywood/marine-epoxy-fiberglass/3-inch-fiberglass-tape.html

I mix the epoxy in a cup, pour into a tray and then (w/gloved hands) drop the pre-cut length of tape into the epoxy in an overlapping fashion, back and forth, so that the tape is fully saturated. Mash it with my fingers a bit, then grab one end and pull it through two fingers (loosely) to rid it of excess epoxy. Then, apply by hand, then squeegee from ridge to edge with a Bondo spreader. I've used bias-cut cloth before and prefer tape hands down. Sanding the ridge (if a smooth cosmetic appearance is desired) is much more preferable to dealing with the frayed edges I think.

[Forrest747]

yes i did do a nice radius and that scared me when i was planning it, but once i got the depth of the router just right it went smooth. yeah mixing in a bag i am sure i wasted some epoxy but at the time it seemed to be the best option for me. I have three roof seams to go and then the front, that will be fun. there is a definiate spot where the edge of the tape is and i wonder do i sand or do i fill with epoxy filler i have and just smooth it out. not sure. still need to find a place around here that sells and knows epoxy.

[CliffinGA]

Scott learned alot from the green lantern build and will be using the Valspar tractor paint on mine also but doing the red instead (can't remember which one though). I used the high density foam rollers at "HD" and they worked great. Forrester look up Aeromarine epoxy, very reasonable in price and ships out quickly. I bought the 1 1/2 gallon kit and its worked great. I bought 6" tape becauseI wanted cover up some extra screw holes and I wanted a big overlap on it.

Cliff

[StPatron]

yeah mixing in a bag i am sure i wasted some epoxy but at the time it seemed to be the best option for me.

For those situations when I have more mixed epoxy than I really need... I use the left-overs somewhere unless it's cooking off. With a little planning, it doesn't go to waste. Might be just a place where I think an added coat might be of benefit, other times I'll coat an area that I normally wouldn't. Could be on the build, could be on something in my workshop. Great product, I just hate to waste it.

still need to find a place around here that sells and knows epoxy.

Other than in small "home project" tubes, most of us are out of luck. I turned OKC upside down looking for a local supplier and learned that the number of suppliers was very limited nation-wide. Those companies buy in bulk from one or two? mfrs. and then create their own "recipe" with additives. Maybe someday we'll see it readily available locally. Like Cliff, I use Aeromarine's product. No blush, good price, quick delivery, reasonable postage rates and top-notch advice over the phone.

I second the thanks to Scott for the excellent documentation and his answers to my PM's!

[Forrest747]

Ok another question. I am about out of the lay up epoxy enough maybe for two short strips on the front angle. the rest are either cured or curing. if i had to guess the fiberglass tape is not fully embedded with epoxy. the edges are stiff. I was thinking of using teh filler epoxy and smooth out the edges, kindof like i do when feathering drywall mud or do i need to have a bake sale and buy more epoxy and fill the tape in. I am leaning toward buying more CPES or equivilant because i still have the rear hatch and side doors to epoxy when i build those. i am leaning toward areo because they are cheaper. I have an emial into them and want to see what response i get. will the epoxy layer alright or will the new layer cause the old layer to soften or melt. when sanding teh ridge as stated in teh earlier post does the mean the edge of the tape. I just dont know.
Finding the closer i am to being done the more i have to do.

ps. Cliff thanks for letting me hijack this thread.

[Oldragbaggers]

Forrest I used a roller made for epoxy from west marine and it still put to much on it. I read about the foam rollers and wijjuse them.

Cliff

The cheap black foam will disintegrate in epoxy. The furry nap rollers will not give you a smooth finish. Get the white high density foam rollers. You can buy them at home depot and they work really great.

[Forrest747]

Becky I was looking at your build today and I can say wow I was impressed so much braver than I .

[CliffinGA]

Thanks Becky that is exactly what I am using now for mine! The roller from West Marine was a special low nap roller but still left way to much on there.

Forrest no prob bud, my 2 cents is too use the same product as before and don't change it up. Different products and consistence can cause problems later.

Cliff

[Forrest747]

Well i had 4 piece of glass tape to finish with and while at hd buying the paint i found som 3M fiberglass resin. so took some sandwich bags propped them up and mixed away. made 4 seperate batches and applied. it deffinatly is different from the layup epoxy from rot doctor. it has a 15 minute window of working time and it did set up quickly. i will have to see if the bags melt or not. i did two tablespoons to 14 drops. quess the wife is getting a new tablespoon or hope she doesnt miss it.

[Wobbly Wheels]

Forest, fiberglassing resin is worlds away from epoxy resin.
If you put in a clear MEKP catalyst in drops, then that's what you got.
Unfortunately, it will not set up where it's overlaying any epoxy resin.
It's also going to be a bit more brittle, won't stick to wood quite as well and may indeed melt the bags.
If you go back and look at the foam, you'll likely find a crater where the wet teaspoon is.
It's still a good material, just a bit of a difference in working with it.

BTW, re foam rollers:
I save all margarine-type containers for mixing resins in. That means I get quite a few orphaned lids as well.
If you cut the lip off a lid, you get a flat plastic disc that bends into a great scraper to squeeze that last bit out of the roller.
If you cut a flat side on it, it's a pretty fair squeegee too.
You can wind up throwing away quite a bit of resin in crusty rollers by the end of the job otherwise...

[Forrest747]

Thanks for the advice. i keep alot of margarine buckets, learned that from my dad.

Yeah it was 7 drops to a teaspoon and your right the foam did have a crater. good to know about the different epoxies. so frustrating sometimes doing new things and the info or the experience isnt there. i am trying to figure out the epoxy grout and have no clue on it, even though i am researching the heck out of it.

[Wobbly Wheels]

...good to know about the different epoxies...

I'm not nitpicking here, just trying to help you figure it all out.
What you mean there is "about the different resins"
The two main ones are epoxy (which you know) and the family of ester-basted resins, which is the 3M stuff you've got.

Generally speaking - if it says 'fiberglassing' on it, it's ester based.
If you want to look this stuff up further on Google, the standard 'fiberglassing' resin is called orthopthalic polyester resin. When you see labels like "general purpose", that's what you're getting (and most likely what you've got). If it's a marine-specific product, it'll probably be isopthalic polyester resin.
As the outer layer on a boat and the base for gelcoat, a vinylester resin is used. It's biggest plus is that it's almost waterproof, where the others aren't. There are other types (like phenolics) but you don't see them too often.

Epoxy resin is a premium product with a completely and utterly different chemistry, so if it's epoxy it will be well-labeled as such. In a glassing shop, you would not normally refer to an epoxy layup like most of us do as "fiberglassing" but in a non-industry forum like this one it's easier to lump it all together because most of us are using epoxy anyway.

As long as the two resins aren't in direct contact and the ester resin is going onto wood, you'll be fine. One big help though (if it's not too late) is to thin some resin 10% with acetone and brush it onto the bare wood. That's called a flood coat and it will allow the resin to penetrate the wood better, which ester resins aren't really good at. Time it so that you are doing the rest of your layup while that flood coat is still a bit tacky - that will give you a primary (chemical) bond between the layers, allowing them to link together and become a single unit that's soaked into the wood.

There can be a pretty hefty learning curve with this stuff because there's a lot of chemistry going on, so it can be a bit like trying to take a drink from a fire hydrant.

Epoxy grout ?

[Forrest747]

Bring on the knowledge. Well its has set up and sanded it was placed on wood with the exception for a couple inches touching other fiberglass tape that was laid down with the rot doctor epoxy. Ok let me ask you this then ok the tape is down what do you do to add a second layer of just epoxy and how far can you feather out from the tape?