StandUpGuy's trailer ride

[48Rob]

From your photo; the trailer is pretty close to level.
Placing the nose of the trailer below level won't help, and may create new instability issues.
You could gain an inch of additional height by changing the spring shackles for longer ones.
Drop hitches come in two inch increments, so changing to a straight bar may put you too low.
In the end, an inch too high or too low should not cause instability.
If it is already on the edge, it might help, but correcting the real problem is a better direction to take.

If it is still unstable, I would bet money that the axle is too far forward.
Adding weight to the front may still help, but if not, adding length to the tongue will, in effect, push the axle further back.

We are all talking about adding weight to the front, which is good, but is there weight behind the axle that can be removed?

Rob

[StandUpGuy]

From your photo; the trailer is pretty close to level.
Placing the nose of the trailer below level won't help, and may create new instability issues.
You could gain an inch of additional height by changing the spring shackles for longer ones.
Drop hitches come in two inch increments, so changing to a straight bar may put you too low.
In the end, an inch too high or too low should not cause instability.
If it is already on the edge, it might help, but correcting the real problem is a better direction to take.

If it is still unstable, I would bet money that the axle is too far forward.
Adding weight to the front may still help, but if not, adding length to the tongue will, in effect, push the axle further back.

We are all talking about adding weight to the front, which is good, but is there weight behind the axle that can be removed?

Rob

Really my biggest killer was the toilet. I had planned on the tolet being on the axle side of hte bathroom for a couple of reasons. The main plumbing is on that side and would have been much easeier to plumb than putting the toilet all the way in the rear as I did. I knew that I was putting a heavy item all the way to the back and that was not my plan. But as I had it the trailer from would not have allowed for a drop down shower pan facing that way so I reversered it. I also obtained a toilet from Craigslist great deal but it is a top of the line porcelean toilet and very heavy. So that is strike two. everything else of any weight is directly over the axel or in front of it. Those items being a mini fridge in a cabinet built in and a microwave not very heavy and actually right over the axel as is the fridge. The AC unit I removed and placed all the way in the nose to bring weight forward.

I went from 72 lbs tongue weight yesterday to 145 lbs today with added items in the nose. The ride was greatly improved of course. At higher speeds there is no bucking on modest bumps. I have not hit anything significant at higher speeds yet. I only have seen the bucking at all if I am going 20-30 and hit big dips. Really it seems to me like it is riding pretty well now. I think my nose is up very slightly and perhaps if I drop it a little and add a little more weight forward perhaps it will ride even better. I have a 4" rise for my hitch currently and perhaps I should get a 3" to drop it down but I am really interested in your larger shackles bit for a little extra ground clearance. Would they have these at an auto parts store? Same as a car?

[S. Heisley]

Reading this thread made me have an epiphany of sorts. My trailer was great when it was empty and worked well the last time I towed it to the campground. But, on the way home, I detected a slight sway if I went past 60 MPH. Of course, driving in California, I'm not supposed to go over 55 anyway; but, it bothered me. After reading this post, I realized what caused it. I am keeping my food and drinking water under the sink in the front. When I was on the way home, the drinking water bottles were empty and most the food was gone! How the trailer is packed can have a major effect!

[StandUpGuy]

Reading this thread made me have an epiphany of sorts. My trailer was great when it was empty and worked well the last time I towed it to the campground. But, on the way home, I detected a slight sway if I went past 60 MPH. Of course, driving in California, I'm not supposed to go over 55 anyway; but, it bothered me. After reading this post, I realized what caused it. I am keeping my food and drinking water under the sink in the front. When I was on the way home, the drinking water bottles were empty and most the food was gone! How the trailer is packed can have a major effect!

Probably you can use even more weight in front than even the food and water add. You are probably right on the edge of a good balance with the full departure load. It was surprising to me that when I took my very tiny window AC unit from its position on the floor all of the way forward in the dinnette area and picked it up and placed it on the seat in the nose, it added over 20 lbs of weight to the tongue.

so you are probably right just a little more weight like your water can make the difference.

[48Rob]

Here is a link to some online;
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... id=1314217



I've never tried an auto parts store, I buy them from a local trailer dealer, or for my last set, I just made them from some bar stock.

This bucking you are describing, is it up and down, or side to side?
If it is bucking up and down, tire pressure and spring rate can be considered.
The best way I know of to test your final layout is to get on the highway and let traffic pass you.
If the rig is very unstable, a car or van passing you at 30-40mph will be very noticeable.
If it can handle that, get up to 50 or so and let the big trucks pass.
It is important to do these tests to be sure your setup is safe.
All can feel okay at low speeds, but if you get out on the highway and have a big truck pass you at 80mph, you need to know that you will be able to control your rig, and not kill someone.

Rob

[kirkman]

I like your idea with the shackles. Why not lengthen the tongue while you are at it? A longer tongue will add weight (more steel weight in the tongue it self) It will make it a lot easier to back up. It will give you room to ad a tongue box for things you don't really want in the camper. I know it will tow better. I think if you just do those two things you will be very, very happy!

Here is a pic of mine before and after. I also lengthened my axle and painted.

[48Rob]

Kirk,

What did you use for the textured finish?

Rob

[StandUpGuy]

Here is a link to some online;
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... id=1314217



I've never tried an auto parts store, I buy them from a local trailer dealer, or for my last set, I just made them from some bar stock.

This bucking you are describing, is it up and down, or side to side?
If it is bucking up and down, tire pressure and spring rate can be considered.
The best way I know of to test your final layout is to get on the highway and let traffic pass you.
If the rig is very unstable, a car or van passing you at 30-40mph will be very noticeable.
If it can handle that, get up to 50 or so and let the big trucks pass.
It is important to do these tests to be sure your setup is safe.
All can feel okay at low speeds, but if you get out on the highway and have a big truck pass you at 80mph, you need to know that you will be able to control your rig, and not kill someone.

Rob

The bucking is up and down. The tires are filled at exactly the max pressure.

I will do as you say and do some graduated tests on the hiway.

About the shackles, I am not quite sure on my trailer where and how the shackles would raise the trailer. Its the arbor Freight trailer here is the detail of the spring assembly.

[High Desert]

Yeah, shackles won't apply to this application. The HF trailers use what's called a slipper spring suspension, where the rear of the spring rides or "slips" on a plate. One thing that could be done to raise ride height would be add a spacer block between the top of the axle and the bottom of the spring pack. May require longer U bolts depending on the height of the block, but it's an option.

[angib]

Adding weight to the front may still help, but if not, adding length to the tongue will, in effect, push the axle further back.

That feels like it must be true, but it isn't. What matters is the position of the centre of gravity compared to the position of the axle and lengthening the tongue doesn't affect that.

Repacking the trailer to move the centre of gravity forward does affect it, which is why that works.

[StandUpGuy]

Adding weight to the front may still help, but if not, adding length to the tongue will, in effect, push the axle further back.

That feels like it must be true, but it isn't. What matters is the position of the centre of gravity compared to the position of the axle and lengthening the tongue doesn't affect that.

Repacking the trailer to move the centre of gravity forward does affect it, which is why that works.

I am guessing the heavy weight of the porcelean toilet positioned at the absolute back has a lot of momentum on that side of the sea-saw. Obviously the toilet is stationary so is it fair enough just to load enough weight forward on the other side of the seesaw plus the extra 10-15%? I am at 142lbs tongue weight but am not sure yet of total trailer weight. My guess is about 1,000 lbs.

[kirkman]

Kirk,

What did you use for the textured finish?

Rob

Rob.... I used Duraback truck bed liner. If I do another one I think I would use something Like it but not that something like Herculiner or one like it that I could buy at a local auto supply shop or wallmart. It is holding up great My tear lives out side that is one reason I used it, the other is because I drive down a lot of dirt/gravel roads and I thought it would be my best option. It's working GREAT! 5 or 6 years outside and no leaks no problems at all!

[StandUpGuy]

Adding weight to the front may still help, but if not, adding length to the tongue will, in effect, push the axle further back.

That feels like it must be true, but it isn't. What matters is the position of the centre of gravity compared to the position of the axle and lengthening the tongue doesn't affect that.

Repacking the trailer to move the centre of gravity forward does affect it, which is why that works.

That makes sense because increasing the length of the tongue is increasing the lengths of the lever basically. That lever can then lift up more weight on the opposite side with less force, so I would imagine the weight of the tongue would actually decrease. Now of course more weight could be shifted forward to compensate and also of course there is some weight added by the extra metal of the tongue extension. Clearly the extended tongue has benefits to the pulling characteristics of the trailer in general.

[48Rob]

That feels like it must be true, but it isn't. What matters is the position of the centre of gravity compared to the position of the axle and lengthening the tongue doesn't affect that.

Repacking the trailer to move the centre of gravity forward does affect it, which is why that works.

Hi Andrew,

I sort of understand...

If you add length to the tongue, that increases the length of the body (body tongue combo) which places the axle further away from the ball/pivot point.
If I move weight forward inside the trailer, tongue extension or not, the weight is still in the same place.
So if moving weight forward to the front of the trailer changes the center of gravity, doesn't it also change when a tongue extension is installed?

Or does it only work when weight is placed on the new tongue extension, further forward than it could have been before?

Rob

[48Rob]

The bucking is up and down. The tires are filled at exactly the max pressure.

Is the bucking an action like a see-saw, where the tongue pushes down, then rises and repeats?
Or is it just the axle/wheels bouncing up and down, like happens on a very rough road?

Tires filled to the max, it they are designed to support 3000 pounds at max pressure will bounce like a childs rubber ball if they are only carrying a load of 1000 pounds.

Rob