How important is moving wheels back?

[les45]

I've read a lot about people moving their wheels back on the DIY trailers, but I've left mine stock on my 5X8 Northern Tool rig with my weekender project. I know it has to do with tongue weight and towability. My reluctance to moving the wheels has to do with drilling more holes in the frame and possibly weakening it. I am estimating that my rig currently weighs about 800 lbs and I have a tongue weight of 80 lbs. I still have to install 50 lbs of manufactured doors forward of the wheels and a battery box on the tongue. When loading for a trip, I can place all my accessories on top of the mattress near the forward wall. That will include a fairly heavy six foot folding table, folding chairs, canopy, and misc. stuff in Rubbermaid containers. Only ice chests and camp stove will be stored in the galley area. I will be looking for a tongue weight of about 10% of my estimated GVW when fully loaded. Does anyone have any experience with leaving their wheels in the stock location and balancing the load like I've described above?

[bobhenry]

I think it is recommended simply because the galley in the rear contains a great deal of concentrated weight. Pots pans food stuffs coolers ect and an extremely light tongue will cause any trailer to dance at highway speeds. Stock cargo trailers are very close to being balanced 50 / 50 with the wheels centered. By adjusting the loads as you have described you may be just fine. I have found all the stock tongues on most of the light duty cargo type trailers to be a bit weak and have not only beefed them up but also extended them a bit ( generally 18 to 24 inches) This seem to much improve their road manners and makes backing up so much easier. My last build was only 525 pounds and I can not get the tongue off of the ground it is heavy heavy heavy but the wheels are placed 65 / 35 and there is no galley (it's just a sleeper)! But I have to say it tows and backs up like a dream.

[absolutsnwbrdr]

I built both of my teardrops with the axle in the stock location and load it just as you have described. So, personally I don't think moving the axle is important, as long as you pay attention to how you load it.

[Alfred]

If I'm not mistaken the Northern Tool trailers have the wheels a little farther back already, when compared to other trailers. I left mine stock, no problems.

AL

[eamarquardt]

Slow makes some good points.

IMHO, and I frequently question WTF do I know, the further back your axle, without exceeding the tongue weight for your hitch/tow vehicle and the strength limits of your trailer's tongue, the better.

As Slow pointed out it's gonna tow better, back better, and be a bit more stable when stopped w/o any levelers.

I can't think of good reason not to put the axle as far back as possible if you have the opportunity and means.

Cheers,

Gus

[KCStudly]

The only thing I can think of is forward maneuverability.

With the wheels set way at the back of the frame (to exaggerate the effect) the trailer will cut a corner more and take more room to maneuver around obstacles.

You will either cut the corner off more with the trailer or have to swing wider with the TV. I would think that in 95% of the situations a typical TD’er will encounter this is probably a moot point. But for hardcore off roaders (or maybe even mild ones) having the axle a little more towards center would help the trailer track around corners using less real-estate. If straight line stability is not compromised, and the overall length is such that backing is still manageable, then maybe there would be a compromise argument for someone looking for ultimate maneuvering.

Me? Even though TPCE has a bit of an off road theme, I still just used the std. recommended formula, cited by Big Mike here.

[48Rob]

having the axle a little more towards center would help the trailer track around corners using less real-estate

KC,
You're right, though the counter point is that you now have to deal with tail swing.

As you pointed out, the average TD'er won't be bothered one way or another.
I'm not an off roader, so have never had to deal with a trailer staying within my tracks, but I have had occasion to be concerned with tail swing (the rear part of the trailer, during a sharp turn, swinging/projecting out past the wheel track).

I'm not trying to argue, just tossing another bit into the pot.

My trailer has the wheels set very far back, and like slow, have a very stable trailer.

In the end, it won't matter a lot, unless the axle ends up too close to the center, then it is very important to move it back, or you will have a very unstable trailer, tracking or tailswing aside.

Rob

[KCStudly]

I'm not trying to argue, just tossing another bit into the pot.

+1, me too.

It's all good. Just sharing the thoughts as they come into my brain. It's all part of the creative engineering process. Better to consider all of the ramifications and issues then weigh them according to the end use and design priorities.

Funny, the thing that just popped into my head was those gypsy sheep herder wagons with the turning live front axles and the rear axle set all the way back; but that's a whole other topic that's has gone before.

[bdosborn]

I wouldn't move the axle back unless your weight distribution leaves your tongue too light, IMHO. There's a very nice spreadsheet by Angib for figuring out weight distribution that takes the guess work where your axle should be. Work through that and I bet you'll find your axle works fine where its at.

Bruce

[Boodro]

It also has to do with door placement & how big your fenders are. Some TD's have very large style fenders & need the room . So look at where your doors & fenders are going to fall. It could save you a big headache down the road( so to speak)

[NateDogg]

Where can I find a great description site or thread on how to do this? I've got basic mechanical skills but great framing, and looking to build my first TTT. I'd like some more information on how to do this if possible, I'm looking to buy the HF 5x8 trailer to build on.

[len19070]

I was told years ago in RV school (RVIA) that the proper equation is 66% forward and 33% behind the wheel. Then again I heard it 60/40????

Moving the axle back to within these perimeters will defiantly give you a better ride at the expense of a little more hitch weight. And as it has been already pointed out, with a tear it really doesn't matter. The length and weight is so small that the percentages vs. weight aren't anything substantial.

For-get about it!

But I think the best reason for moving it back is for looks.

Happy Trails

Len

[StandUpGuy]

Ok heard from two about having a tongue weight so heavy it could not be picked up. I am guessing with a big truck it is no a big problem. With a smaller TV could this be a problem?

[wagondude]

My Subaru is limited to a tongue weight of 200#. If I were to build a trailer that came in there loaded, I probably would think twice about lifting it. More than likely I would shift the load to get it to 150# for headroom on the rating.I would still get assistance if I needed to lift that. My point, however is that the difference between being able to lift the tongue and not is only a few pounds and could still be well under the ratings of most smaller cars. Besides, that is why they invented tongue jacks.

Bill