Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

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Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

Postby Martinjmpr » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:10 am

Hi, I’ve come here hoping to get some insights and maybe some guidance on our teardrop “bubbles.”

Looking around it seems like there are two kinds of teardroppers, those who buy a pre-made trailer and those who build their own. We fall into the middle – we have a home-built trailer that was built by someone else. As a result, we’ve come to find that there are things we need to do to make the trailer more useful and more comfortable for us.

Here is “Bubbles” as we bought her. She sits on a 5 x 8 (approximately) utility trailer frame, quite a heavy one. Not sure of the weight (getting her weighed is on m ‘to do’ list.) Construction is (according to the builder/seller) Marine Grade plywood, 3/4 sides and 1/4 top, all wood. She had a coat of some kind of marine varnish that we found totally inadequate to protect the wood so we are in the process of coating her with successive layers of polyurethane spar varnish.

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A couple of things ought to jump out at you right away: First off, she sits very high. Not sure why she was built this way, except I think the builder might have had ideas of taking her off-road. Nevertheless, the galley counter is chest high on me and so high as to be darn near unusable for my wife. The excessive height also puts it in a distinctly canted-down stance, which is not good for handling or wind resistance (though this is helped a little bit by using a 3 1/2” drop hitch, reversed.)

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The second thing that should hit you right away is that the axle is a mobile home axle, sometimes called a “Dayton” axle. It uses a hubless 14.5” wheel. I’ve been cautioned that the “wedges” that hold the wheel to the hub can loosen unexpectedly, so I check them every time I get ready to roll. No problems so far, but it’s not something I like to have to do.

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I’m interested in either converting the axle to a more conventional hub that can mount a “real” wheel, or swapping the axle out entirely for a conventional trailer axle. At this point, a full axle swap seems to be the best way to go, because it would solve 3 problems:

1. Where the old axle is a “spring over” axle setup (which raises the trailer) the new one would be a “spring under” which would lower the trailer.

2. As you can see from the pics, the mobile home axle is MASSIVE and the hubs are large, cast-iron looking things with brakes in them (brakes that aren’t hooked up.) Removing this oversized axle would help me reduce weight, and of course

3. Going to a conventional axle would give me a conventional (brakeless) hub that I can mount “normal” trailer wheels/tires on (which will reduce the weight and make it possible to mount a spare to the frame.)

You can see the "spring over" design here as well as the massive thickness of the Dayton axle:

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The final point in favor of a full axle swap vs. a hub conversion is that it looks like I can get an axle for ~$150 while all the parts necessary to swap the hubs would cost me at least $100 altogether, so there’s not much of a money advantage to keeping the Dayton axle (especially when considering all the other negatives of the Dayton.)

We also have some other ideas such as putting on more stylish fenders and revising the electrical system (right now it’s just a 120v plug on the left side that runs to a power strip in the galley.)

So, with that as preamble, my questions are as follows:

1. How difficult is an axle swap with a spring-under change? I’ve never put a trailer together so I don’t know. My thinking is that if I can unbolt the old axle it will just drop free, then if the hubs on the new axle are small enough to slip over the existing leaf springs, I may not even have to remove the leafs. If I do remove the leafs, I would think they’d be easy to put back together. Then the new axle would go in the same position as the old one, except that the axle would be on top of the springs and of course the U-bolts would be a different size (smaller) and would face downward instead of upward.

Is there anything else I need to consider with an axle swap? Is ‘true-ing’ the axle (that is, making sure that it is not angled to the left or right) difficult?

As far as weight capacity, I’m thinking a 1500lb capacity axle should be plenty and offer a nice margin of safety. I know I can get one of those new for about $150 and if I find a used one I can probably get it for less. It would be nice if I could get one with a bolt pattern that matches my tow vehicle (2007 Toyota 4runner) but that’s not really necessary. I think I would prefer a bigger (15”) wheel to a small 13” or 14” trailer wheel, though, but it will really depend on what is available on the axle.

2. With regards to the wood, as I said, we are in the process of putting spar varnish on it now. We have one coat and will probably put a few more coats on before next year. Is there anything else we need to do to protect the wood?

3. One thing the trailer could really use is better ventilation. Can someone recommend a good vent that we can install on the side? We don’t want to put one of those big rectangular skylight- type vents on the top (the ones that tilt up when they open) because it will ruin the looks of the trailer and also because the entire roof surface is curved and we would be worried about sealing it watertight. I’m thinking a couple of small, round, possibly shrouded vents on the sides near the very top, maybe 3” in diameter, would work. Does anybody know of such a vent or how we could find or make one?

Thanks in advance! I will of course post our progress as it goes along!
Martin and Liz and our new T@B Clamshell "Livia"

Our old Teardrop "bubbles"
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Re: Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

Postby Greg M » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:57 am

Welcome, you've come to the right place :)
Swapping the axle is a piece of cake and sounds like the right thing to do if the original seems unsafe. Putting it on top of the springs was really easy when I did it. There was an alignment pin that went through the leaves and socketed into the plate on the axle that kept everything in place. You might also look into the flex ride or Dexter torsion axles for their ability to adjust ride height.

Good luck

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Re: Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

Postby Forrest747 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:28 pm

I intially did the same thing with the springs on top of the axle. switched it to the inside it was cake and just took a couple extra saddles to weld on. Looks like an offroad setup and if you lower it maybe a smaller tire get the galley to sit just right. Try merrill axle in Lakewood. they will have it or point you in the right direction
9680996808 First attempt didnt like how high the back was
50878So i switched it to the inside. just added an extra saddle so one on top one on the bottom
66650
Last edited by Forrest747 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

Postby jeff0520 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:01 pm

With the style of mount that axle has, I believe you could flip the existing axle and just bolt it up the same way, with the axle on top of the springs as a test to see how it does. First loosen the lugs, Then put the trailer on 4 sturdy jackstands with the wheels just off the ground. Support the axle in the center on a jack. Pull off the wheels. Unbolt the springs from the front hangers, and let the the jack down. Unbolt the U bolts, and move the axle to the top of the springs. The axle will be upside down from where it was so the aligning pins will fit the holes in the springs and tie plates. Tighten the ubolts up in the new position. Jack the axle back into place, and bolt the springs back up. Put the wheels back on, take her off the stands, and see how it rides. :)
As for the Dayton wheels, I have been a trucker for 20 years, and I'm a certified tire and wheel mechanic.. I have never had a problem with Daytons on the trucks that have run them. Most of the bad reputation Dayton wheels have gotten is from the multipiece rims that are usually put on Dayton hubs. Pull a wheel off, and look at the rim. If it has a removable lock ring at one of the tire beads, it's a multipiece rim. If the wheel rim is one piece on both sides, it's a drop center wheel. Those are no more dangerous than a car tire. If you can flip the axle, and the wheels are not the lock ring style, I wouldn't bother with an axle swap myself.
As for the wedges coming loose, with reasonable care taken during tire service, that isn't going to happen. If you worry about it, stop by the auto parts store, and ask for some LIGHT HOLD locktite thread locker to use on the lug studs. Use light hold, not the more serious stuff because you want to be able to get it off when tire change time comes.
If it is a multipiece, there's an up side, and a down side. The up side is that one guy, with 2 tire irons and a lug wrench can mount and dismount the tire on the rim, in the dark, on the side of the road. Pretty handy, and way cheaper than road service. That's why Dayton wheels had such a long life in the trucking business. The down side, is that if you fail to seat the lock ring properly, and it pops off during inflation, it will LITERALLY rip your head smooth off your shoulders when it blows apart. :frightened:
Here is a picture of a multipiece split ring rim being disasembled so you'll know it if you see it. http://www.4wdonline.com/Wheels/PiCs37/Split04.jpg
That's my wisdom on the topic of Dayton rims...That and a dollar will most likely get you a small coffee . :D
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Re: Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

Postby Shadow Catcher » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:02 am

Mobile home axles are built for one shot use and are not suitable for extended use, and yes there a folks that do. One problem is that some use 14.5 wheels and tires that are very difficult to find. Do a search on using "using mobile home axles" and I think that will cinch the decision to change.
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Re: Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

Postby Martinjmpr » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:07 am

Jeff: Thank you for the input on the Daytons. We do have the one-piece rims, so that's good to know. And I'm sure it would probably be safe to continue running them but there are other issues that have me thinking of replacing the axle: First off, the axle and the hubs are way, way too heavy and massive for the trailer. Rugged, yes, but also a lot of unsprung weight that I'd rather not haul around. Not sure why the builder chose a mobile home axle, but I think maybe he was considering building an 'off road' capable trailer. Since that's not my intention, I don't need the ruggedness and I certainly don't need the ~100lbs of extra weight (estimated) over a more conventional trailer axle.

Another issue is the odd hub-less wheels. That makes it virtually impossible for me to mount a spare (right now I carry the spare on the roof of my 4runner tow vehicle but that's not a long-term solution.) With a more conventional wheel with a hub, I could bolt a bracket onto the frame to carry the spare. A more conventional wheel would also be smaller and lighter, again, reducing unsprung weight.

Also, as Shadow Catcher said, finding a replacement wheel/tire will be easier with a more conventional setup.

The more I look at Bubbles the more I realize that the guy who built it (who was a master craftsman, no doubt!) nevertheless did a lot of things that were probably not a great idea and I wouldn't be surprised if he sold the trailer because he would rather start from scratch with a new one rather than try to 'fix' what needs fixing on this one. Still, it's been a fun project for the wife and I, and so far we've really been enjoying it.
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Re: Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

Postby CarlLaFong » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:10 am

I would loose that axle for no other reason than it is dumb and way too huge and heavy for a small trailer. It's like putting a Peterbilt rear end in your Smart car.

"The down side, is that if you fail to seat the lock ring properly, and it pops off during inflation, it will LITERALLY rip your head smooth off your shoulders when it blows apart."


I do not doubt the dangers of improperly mounted lock rings. I read these dire warnings on many different sites that I follow and post on. My question is, "Why does it seem that an improperly seated lock ring always, 100% of the time, removes the poor unsuspecting tire guys head? Does it ever miss, fly off and land, harmlessly, in a field? Does it ever slice off a hand or arm? Does it ever just graze the guy and leave him with a scratch? If all of the stories are to be believed, lock rings have removed more noggins than the entire French Revolution. Just another of my, substandard, thoughts. :?
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Re: Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

Postby jeff0520 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:19 am

Shadow Catcher wrote:Mobile home axles are built for one shot use and are not suitable for extended use, and yes there a folks that do. One problem is that some use 14.5 wheels and tires that are very difficult to find. Do a search on using "using mobile home axles" and I think that will cinch the decision to change.


You are mostly right about that, BUT the mobile home axle is meant to haul a LOT more weight than you will ever see from use in a teardrop. Even an econo type mobile home axle will last quite a while with the weight of a teardrop on it as opposed to a giant mobile home. Tire availibility is the factor I had not considered, and may be the biggest issue. I'd say check price and availibility of quality tires in that size, and see if that adjusts the economics of the issue.
Just don't let the Dayton wheels worry you excessively. Just make sure you torque them up properly using a star pattern when you mount a wheel, and they will be fine.
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Re: Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

Postby jeff0520 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:33 am

CarlLaFong wrote:I would loose that axle for no other reason than it is dumb and way too huge and heavy for a small trailer. It's like putting a Peterbilt rear end in your Smart car.

"The down side, is that if you fail to seat the lock ring properly, and it pops off during inflation, it will LITERALLY rip your head smooth off your shoulders when it blows apart."


I do not doubt the dangers of improperly mounted lock rings. I read these dire warnings on many different sites that I follow and post on. My question is, "Why does it seem that an improperly seated lock ring always, 100% of the time, removes the poor unsuspecting tire guys head? Does it ever miss, fly off and land, harmlessly, in a field? Does it ever slice off a hand or arm? Does it ever just graze the guy and leave him with a scratch? If all of the stories are to be believed, lock rings have removed more noggins than the entire French Revolution. Just another of my, substandard, thoughts. :?

:lol: Yes, they sometimes do miss the guy's head. If the tire tech is smart, and inflatres the split ring rim inside a tire restraining cage, aside from the "change my shorts" effect from the sudden explosion, there's likely to be no injury or damage other than to the tire and wheel. Most of the time when a head gets removed, the idiot who formerly owned the head had the tire on the ground, and was leaning over it to press the air chuck to the valve. The natural position for that job puts the head in the direct line of fire.
Compressed air is a dangerous animal. A friend of mine, and former co-worker was nearly removed from this world by a wheel barrow tire believe it or not. He misread the PSI requirement on the side of a scuffed up wheel barrow tire. He thought it said "inflate to 60 PSI" when it actually said "inflate to 6 PSI" :frightened:
The tire exploded, flew up off the workbench, hit him in the head (of course) and tossed him across the shop to the top of an 8 foot high stack of tires. He had a fractured skull, and a closed head injury requiring a hole to be drilled in his skull. The docs were actually surprised he still had all his marbles when he regained conscousness. A big part of why he survived was the shop was literally 100 yards from the emergency room. We didn't call an ambulance. We just pulled him down, and ran him to the ER within a minute or two of the bang.
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Re: Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

Postby eamarquardt » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:32 am

CarlLaFong wrote: "Why does it seem that an improperly seated lock ring always, 100% of the time, removes the poor unsuspecting tire guys head?


Simply because his head is there. If his head were elsewhere he'd lose the arm, hand, leg, or other part of his anatomy.

Hope this clears it up.

Cheers,

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Re: Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

Postby CarlLaFong » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:00 pm

He thought it said "inflate to 60 PSI" when it actually said "inflate to 6 PSI"

6 PSI???? that isn't enough to make a flat tire round, much less carry a wheelbarrow full of dirt or rocks :thinking:

CarlLaFong wrote: "Why does it seem that an improperly seated lock ring always, 100% of the time, removes the poor unsuspecting tire guys head?
Simply because his head is there.


Edmund Hillary busted tires, for a living, before he assaulted Everest?? :)
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Re: Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

Postby 48Rob » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:17 pm

Where did you guys get on the idea that mobile home axles use split rims? :thinking:

I've been dealing with these things for 35 years and have never come across a modern mobile home axle that has, or takes a split rim...

A few 1940's and 50's trailers came with them, but this is 2012
I agree that mobile home axles are very heavy weight wise, and heavy duty and are not a great choice for a very lightweight teardrop, but they sure don't break often, and tires are actually very easy to come by.

The locking spacers they use aren't anything to be concerned with, tighten evenly as with any wheel and they will be fine.
While they may be built for "limited" use, a one shot use is not accurate as they are recycled many, many times for use on the next new trailer coming off the line.

Flipping the axle is pretty easy to do, but you will need to install a new spring perch to hold the spring in the correct position.
If you don't connect the brakes you might get by with just the "U" bolts, but it will be safer to install new spring perches to hold the axle in the correct position.


Rob
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Re: Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

Postby jeff0520 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:41 pm

48Rob wrote:Where did you guys get on the idea that mobile home axles use split rims? :thinking:


Honestly, I've never worked on a mobile home axle, so I didn't know if they used splits or drop centers. All my experiance is in either gerneral freight or flatbed. Since there was a Dayton hub in play, I figured it was better to go over splits rather than let someone find out the hard way :frightened:


48Rob wrote:Flipping the axle is pretty easy to do, but you will need to install a new spring perch to hold the spring in the correct position.
If you don't connect the brakes you might get by with just the "U" bolts, but it will be safer to install new spring perches to hold the axle in the correct position.


Maybe I'm looking at the picture wrong, but it looks like they just have the spring santwiched between two tie plates. I assume (hope) there's at least a locater pin in that stack to keep it all lined up. I didn't see a welded spring perch in there. Of course, pictures can be decieving. :thinking:
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Re: Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

Postby 48Rob » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:46 am

Maybe I'm looking at the picture wrong, but it looks like they just have the spring santwiched between two tie plates. I assume (hope) there's at least a locater pin in that stack to keep it all lined up. I didn't see a welded spring perch in there. Of course, pictures can be decieving. :thinking:


Jeff,

No, you are right, I missed that.
I was looking at the picture Forrest posted... :oops:

I suppose on such a light trailer, you could get by with that setup, but having a proper spring perch to locate and hold the axle would be better...they only cost about $5.00

Mobile homes (coaches/old, old trailers) in the 40's, and a scant few into the 50's used split rims.

Rob
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Re: Looking for some ideas on our Teardrop!

Postby rowerwet » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:27 pm

CarlLaFong wrote:I do not doubt the dangers of improperly mounted lock rings. I read these dire warnings on many different sites that I follow and post on. My question is, "Why does it seem that an improperly seated lock ring always, 100% of the time, removes the poor unsuspecting tire guys head? Does it ever miss, fly off and land, harmlessly, in a field? Does it ever slice off a hand or arm? Does it ever just graze the guy and leave him with a scratch? If all of the stories are to be believed, lock rings have removed more noggins than the entire French Revolution. Just another of my, substandard, thoughts. :?

airplane wheels are two piece, with the split in the exact middle, the only thing holding them together off the air craft axle is anywhere from three (very small aircraft)to ten or even more and thicker bolts as the plane gets bigger. more than one story, with pictures, has gone around about guys who didn't know how to use a back-seating regulator (in is higher pressure, opposite of a water faucet) and blew the tire apart. one pilot I was servicing tires for on a hawker jet told me he was glad I was keeping to the side, away from the direct path the wheel half would take if it exploded and took the axle nut with it, he had been waiting to launch years before and watched a guy blow the tire apart, the wheel half took off half of his head, he stood up, said "uhoh" and dropped dead.
we had a not so bright mechanic at work unbolt a much lower pressure tire (50psi) at work, WITHOUT DEFLATING IT, when that last thread on the last bolt let go, the wheel half shot out, crushing one bone in his hand, bruising a few more, tearing a big gash up his thumb, and shooting a few feet to CLANG off a work stand. Another mechanic working at his tool box 30 or more feet away had the guys socket land right next to him. and that was only 50 psi in a tube inside a 13" tall tire, but much fatter than a car or trailer tire. big jets have tire pressures in the hundreds...
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