New Here - decision time

[meledward]

Howdie, all.

A brief intro, as our life experiences make us who we are.
I grew up tent camping with my parents when we would go on vacation to the lake to go watersking with out boat. When I was 8 we changed over to houseboats because my parents we tired of getting soaked in the rain with 4 boys. I have spent a week on a houseboat once a year most my life as my parents still own one. When in college I started backcountry packing in the Appalachian states. Once I had kids I started car camping with them a couple times a year and visiting the house boat once or twice a year due to distance. Car Camping doesnt cut it, to much hassle with the kids. Prep time, before going, going, etc. I considered getting a cargo trailer to organize and haul just tent gear. But then I started thinking an RV style would allow road trips, rest area breaks, multiple sites over days.

I must also point out, for the most part, I much much much prefer fall and winter camping. I am from the Mid-South so to me that means 30 degrees to 50 in general. Its not that I like cold. I love the no bugs, and personally I find the land more peaceful in the cold season.

So, that brings me to my decision. I am not asking for you to make my decision. I am typing out my current reasoning. I am asking those with more experience to point out the flaws in my thinking.

RV - a hybrid style. Tentish, already built .
Cargo Trailer - Camper - Custom, personalized, can be rigged with 12v. systems and be more like a house boat that I am accustomed to.
Custom built Teardrop like Trailer - I have a vision for a trailer. It would be a lower profile trailer with a 2' wide tall section down the middle. So not a true teardrop, but nothing near as tall for a 7' width that you would get out of a cargo.
Pop-up - no thanks. cant really pack it at home without setting it up. Cant use it while on the road. I LOVE the feel of one at the destination, and without kids I would be more inclined.

I also like the idea of more of a chuckwagon style kitchen. I just don't relish cooking in the camper.

Kids - I just feel worn out wrangling them, I dont need to wrangle a camper up and down all the time. If it wasn't for them, I would still probably just slap a backpack together, a small tent, and toss it in my truck and go.

And here lies part of my problem, is that I have never really RV-style camped. Even when car tent camping I never paid much attention to Trailer people. I didnt pay much attention to sites, locations , rules etc for them at all.

I have the skills to build a camper ground up. I may not have the time though as I have a house that is falling down (only half literally).

RV- ready to go, but doesn't seem very dry camping or winter camping wise.
Cargo Trailer, can be 12V, solar, and insulated piping to allow colder weather
Custom built - probably take to long to build, but the most cost effective what I *THINK*want in the end. (cost effective, not juts in build, but fuel efficiency, etc). (edit added think)

[nevadatear]

Not sure what you mean by a two foot tall section down the middle. Also, how old are the kids? Old enough to throw them out in their own tent or do they need to me inside with you?

[meledward]

Response to your first question, is that this
gallery/image.php?mode=medium&album_id=2215&image_id=37465
is similar to what I am talking about. I have seen several variations. But the point is if you have this center strip it leaves a walking isle, a stand up changing area, etc, but is a narrow area for drag compared to the full width. I just said 2' as an arbitrary initial assesment. As I have not actually designed the whole thing out. (For clarity , I am talking about a center raised ridge. The camper design may not be all that similar. What I am really thinking is more camper is 7x18 with a low 4.5' type profile and a raised ridge. But, there is nothing solid in the thought on design)


2nd Questions Ages:
3 and 6. They love camping. The love, the fire, the sleeping in close quarters to mom and dad, the nature, the adventure, etc. One of each sex, and the girl is a far bigger outdoorsman. We have 33 acres and she loves to go for walks in the dry creek bed, and up into the woods.

But I would trust neither of them outside a locked camper without me standing over them. They both love to explore, IE run away!...

[meledward]

And I suppose for those that want to know, I should mention, I have the two vehicle covered. 1Ton cummins, and a 1500 V8. That doesn't mean I want more drag than necessary. I could easily deal with a 5th'er, but I dont want anything that large. Though personally I would rather pull a 5th'er over a bumper any day.

[sherryk]

Based on your description, I don't think this will quite fit what you are dreaming of, but I'll point it out just in case. http://tinycamper.com/raindrop560ultra.htm, is the model that has bunk beds; so adults on the queen bed area, 2 kids on the bunks. The reason I don't think it fits what you are asking is there is no stand-up area at all--you'd have to go outside to stand up.

However... it would be a hybrid of RV vs. Tent. You could still wrangle that into a tenting spot, if you didn't want to hook up to electricity or water like an RV usually wants to do. And the kids are inside with you (and would have to literally step over you to sneak out for a night time adventure).

[pete42]

I would go with the converted cargo trailer you already know the pitfalls of tent camping
a hybrid would have some of the same pitfalls wet canvas if it rains, canvas ends same as a tent
cold in fall camping, but it could be loaded at home.
teardrop which I like but is really tent camping with a bed off the ground most have an awning of some sort.
4 people 2 that are still growing teardrop would soon become crowded.
a cargo trailer would be nice and warm if needed and cooled when needed; nice beds, cook inside if you are so inclined
or cook outside which is nice as well
some here have made ones with rear doors into a very nice self contained cooking area while others have inside cooking areas
some use the rear ramp door as a way to haul almost anything with wheels.
a roadside rest can be used for a nap or a meal, overnight in truck stops, walmart, cracker barrel ect.
easy to load and unload before and after your camping adventure, able to grow as the little ones grow.
No matter what you decide you already know camping as a family is one great memory being made.

pete

[nevadatear]

Ah ha, Doug's trolley top! Recognize that that does not make a stand up area, only more light and head room. You may want to look at Dan lott's trolley top design. We is building a large teardrop to fit two kids.

[meledward]

That one may not allow full standing, but is an inspiration for an idea (there are about three others in the photos).

I am not fully committed to a teardrop size (no way wife will bite) , but a full height 78" cargo is pushing the other end.

A custom built trailer with 4.5' or 5' side walls, with a 18" high by 18" or 2' (mockups would help get the minimum size max comfort) center ridge would reduce drag, allow for a central back door for standing room walkway, but all other areas would be sitting height only. Seems to me to split the middle. It reduces drag and the front profile. Though I suppose it is still a full profile for cross winds.

The real kicker is time.

The more I consider it the Cargo trailer seems more like the best solution. Looked at RVs again yesterday and they are nice, but more than I want. The smaller ones don't do anything well as they dedicate way to much interior space to cooking.

Though part of my problem is honestly I am not that familiar with, let's call it "trailer life". I am familiar with the more luxury style of same sight rented spot and the lowest of all forms (tongue in cheek) tent camping.

The middle ground... is the mystery, and planning for flexibility as the kids age.


(THANKS TO ALL FOR THEIR TIME)

[8ball_99]

Honestly with your tow vehicles its not going to matter... Only reason to stick to a very low trailer is if your pulling with a small car or suv like most people with tears do.. If your talking a 1/2 v8 truck and a 1 ton truck.. A cargo trailer is not going to make much difference.. I know cause thats exactly what I have is two trucks one being a v8 1/2 ton and the other is a diesel.. I get almost the exact same milage pulling my small fish and ski boat as I do pulling a 6x14 cargo trailer.. The cargo trailer even with a 6'6" ceiling only had about 1 foot of the top of the trailer in the wind.. I know this cause thats the only place that would get bugs on it during trips.. If your pulling with a full size truck its not going to matter much if your trailer is 4 foot tall or 7.. Also weight doesn't matter as much. You won't notice a difference in a few hundred pounds. IE you pull a trailer that weighs 2500 pounds and then pull one that weighs 3k all things equal but the weight It will pull the same with those trucks.. Gas milage won't change much if any either.. I've noticed with my gasser that once you put over a couple thousand pounds on it the milage doesn't really change much after that. Kinda of like you might loose 3 mpg with a 2500 pound load but if you pull 6thousand pounds you might loose 4 mpgs instead of 3.. My diesel is about the same way.. Just sticking it in tow mode with no trailer cost me 1-2mpgs.. Pull a 8k trailer and it cost me 4mpgs total... No much difference from no load in tow mode to pretty decent load. I'm sure the difference between 2k trailer and a 4k trailer is almost nothing in real world..

I also agree with pete.. I would not want a pop up style camper.. They have the same issues as tents.. Leaks, poor insulation, noisy, and if you every close the thing up witht he fabric wet at all you will have mold and mildew..

[Techguy]

It might be a good idea to see if you can rent a travel trailer to see what it's like. You may need to invest in a trailer brake system if the truck doesn't already have one.

I have been a pop up camper for the past decade or so and they are nice when you get there, and they store most of you camp gear year round but you cannot use then at all unless you set it 100% up. No quick lunch stops on the road using the PUP.

Trailer camping is different than tent camping as you spend more time indoors in a "building" but they are nice during rain. This would include 5thers also. On the road meals are simple, pull over, get out of the truck and go into the rig.

I have not camped with a teardrop but it would allow for quick meal stops but most are impractical for more than two people, especially in the rain. You would likely need a tent for the kids. You could place the tent directly against one side and make it like a side room to the TD. If placed close enough, kids would need to exit through the TD. Sleep with the door open and it's like they are in the TD, but not.

[meledward]

Techguy, I think you spotlight my issues succinctly.

A pop-up while I really like the feel, when at the site, has travel woes, and setup woes, that with 2 children are aggravating at best. Getting everything setup and ready when kids are holy terrors (no not mine) is a PITA. I also don't feel comfortable with the pop-up roof. I would rather be in a tent, too much sway.

Also, if do longer trips, having the convenience of eating, prepping indoors would be excellent. Hard sided in winter would be great. I do like the tent camping in general. But I think the family is pushing me away from it, in terms of I can only handle so much chaos at one time.

I think the Cargo Trailer is most likely my best bet, if I can find a way to make it work. the biggest downside to it, is the Box Feeling and that is the hardest sell with the wife.

I also won't be happy if it drags the 1500 around with wind when passing semi's and such. I am determined to get down to 1 vehicle. The 1500 is more convenient but that 3500 is a tank and I love that about it, it also costs a heck of a lot more to repair.

So the dilemma transverses multiple aspects, and I do appreciate the logic applied by others with experiences as it helps further my insights. Even when you have some experiences to draw upon sometimes we have problems remembering previous conclusions.(Ever said "you know the last time I did this I said never again?")

Well, thanks. I think the front runner is figuring a cargo design that will work for me.

[8ball_99]

What exactly is your 1/2 ton.. I know you said 1500. But is it extended cab? Crew cab? 5.3Lmotor? Bigger the truck the better. If yours is a newer crew cab then I dont' think you will have much problem with a small cargo trailer on the interstate. Something like a 7x14.. My Tundra is an 08 Crew cab with a short bed and It pulls my 7x26 foot cargo trailer very well, but you know its there.. When I had a 6x14 cargo it was almost like it wasnt' there.. The only time I really felt it was going up hills. Wind and semi's didn't bother it at all.. With my larger trailer I added a equalizer hitch and that helped a ton.. I'm sure if you keep the width and height down invest in a decent brake controller and weight distribution hitch you should be good to go..

As far as the boxed in feeling goes. Just be sure to add a couple windows and a roof vent.. The natural light makes a big difference during the day.. Honestly we do not spend hardly any time inside our trailer. I had the factory put an awning on our cargo trailer. When we are at the trailer we are almost always outside under the awning.. Ofcourse if the weather is bad, its nice to have the trailer to hang out in. Its mostly just a place to sleep/shower and store our supplies though. One of the biggest pluses to me over tent camping is the packing and unpacking.. We leave all our camping stuff in the trailer all the time. I even leave food, soap, bottled water, some cloths, ect, ect in there.. When we decide to go camping all we do is hook up the trailer and go.. It doesn't take hours to load the truck with all the supplies out of the garage, kitchen ect.. Its all already in the trailer and ready to go.. We still have a few friends that tent camp and looking in their vehicles and watching them "setup camp" reminds me exactly how much I don't miss it.. Tent for this, easy up for that, tarp for this.. We pull up drop the jacks and pull the awning out, set out the lawn chairs.. Done....

[Irmo Atomics]

Have you considered restoring a vintage camper, like an older Shasta, Scotty etc.? They're bigger than a teardrop but still easy to tow and set up. You can customize it to fit your needs, they can still be found relatively cheap, and they are a lot more fun than an RV.

[pete42]

Let me add I started out with a tent, then pop-up, then a truck Van, then travel trailer I have owned several of each type.
I loved the tent packed in the trunk you looked just like anyother car on the road.
the pop-up man this is one nice way to camp if it rains same as a tent but boy the beds.
truck van sorta stealth mode nice big bed easy on the gas but forget something in town and you have to break camp.
travel trailer best so far big bed, big fridge, big bathroom, big couch, big televisions, big gas bill ok somethings aren't the best.

I would look in cargo trailer portion of this site look up "gadget man's" conversion show it to the wife and she may want to know when are you starting.

pete why the wine because he has a wine cabinet the man knows how to live.

[rowerwet]

my 0.02 cents

I have four kids and this is what I have planned for our future cross country trip to see as much of the US as we can before the kids move out. the center room is two bunks with a slide out for the foot of the bunk which would be a plywood box, and the only thing needed to set up for sleeping. the trolley top is for sit up head room in the bunks and air. I know it is way to long to be a teardrop, but I like the easy set up and and easy towing of a tear. I plan on an easy set up changing tent for each door

just another option...