Is 2x2 angle strong enough for a 5x8?

[kludge]

I have a 7x8 "landscape" trailer (think snowmobile trailer with 14" side walls) and a rear ramp.

The trailer was a homebuilt on a boat trailer frame. The builder used 2x2 angle iron for the floor rails and top rails, 2x tongue and groove lumber for the floor, then skinned it will aluminum diamond tread on the sides 14" high.

I'm been thinking for a 2-3 years about how to put a removable TTT on top, but the height of 7x8 floor (to get it out over the small boat wheels) prohibits me from getting any useable height on the TTT and still fit it in the garage.

There's enough material, I think, to rebuild the trailer into a 5x8 and put a better 2000# axle underneath. Most of the existing material I have to work with on the trailer 2x2 angle iron. Could I use that for the box perimeter and still have adequate strength?

The tongue is 2x3 box steel, and I would reuse that also. The "boat trailer" part of the frame is still there and I think it's 2x3 C channel steel, but I really don't think it's long enough for the 8' side rails.

TIA.

[KCStudly]

Post some pic's and I am sure you will get plenty of advice.

[rowerwet]

kind of a pain, but you could take the wheels off and roll it in and out of the door on the hubs to get some extra height.

[bobhenry]

Placing the trailer frame level what is the deck height?

My hybrid HF home built frame was 17" and is fine to get in and out of.

I simply laid the 3/4 floor down and hung the 2x4 perimeter nailer under the floor decking









The 1x4 you see at the bottom of my wall sheathing is were I gained the longitudinal strength. It carries the weight of the wall and absorbs the impact loads.

[kludge]

Placing the trailer frame level what is the deck height?

The top of the boat frame/bottom of the deck is 21.5"-22".

I also made several other measurements, I'll see if I can get a sketch up shortly...

The tongue is 2x3 box tube 1/8" thick and is just shy of 5ft long.
The sides of the boat frame are 2x3 C-channel and are ~43" side to side.
Axle is ~54" wide WMS-WMS.
The rails of the boat frame don't extend to the rear, and the trailer extends approx a foot and a half behind the end of the c-channel.
The deck is ~2" thick and the side of the trailer, skinned with aluminum tread plate are 16" high, not the 14" I thought, that's about what I have left above the deck on the inside.
The tops of the tires are about 4-4.5" below the bottom of the deck, spings are slipper springs, over the axles with ~3" lift blocks to get the deck high enough to clear the tires. The srpings are directly under the boat frame rails.
The axle is located pretty much dead center of the 8' long deck.

By my measuremets I could get 4ft to 4.5ft of covered height on the back of the trailer and still get out of the garage... but for my TTT I was hoping to get 5ft.

60+18=78 and I can eaily clear the garage door. 80" and I would have to push the gargage door up while pulling the trailer out... but I don't want to tempt fate, so I'd like an 18" deck height.

Also my driveway has a fairly good slope, so the rear will kick up... and with the trailer as is the only good way in and out is a rear entry into the TTT, should I build on the trailer as is.

Keeping the "landscape" part of the trailer would be nice if I can somhow figure a way to put a TTT on the back... I have a large family and owning a pickup to haul junk around is out of the question -- the trailer is my pickup. I'm also not really needing a ton of creature comforts, as I'm a sesaonsed camper (year round with the scouts, on the ground, in the snow, you name it, but I've almost resigned myself to the thought that a dual purpose trailer probably isn't going to work out... hence my thoughts to rebuild it and use the avaialble 2x2 angle iron.

[bobhenry]

I still use the "Barn" as my cargo trailer..........

Pull out the removable bed/couch and I have a moving van for my daughters moving day



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It will hold 9' sheets of osb sheathing for my caboose build.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And still make a damn fine and comfortable camper.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

even Sadie thinks so ...

[kludge]

...

[kludge]

So this is what I have to work with.

Is it worth trying to salvage the material and rebuild it? Or should I start from scratch?

I left out the decking, springs and rear ramp so you could better see the structure. It's not 100% accurate but it's very close.

[KCStudly]

Re: dual purpose vs. dedicated camper.

Not too long ago I upgraded from a small beater p/u to a nearly new SUV. Not much of a decision since it was an inheritance and a big big improvement in luxury. However, the utility of an old beat up p/u with a plastic bed liner is no comparison to a nice, new, carpeted, and, frankly, less practical SUV. The only thing the cargo hold on the SUV has going for it is that it is out of the weather. With the p/u there was never a concern about scratching anything or getting anything dirty, greasy, oily, etc. Heck, the ability to just toss something in the bed and go, without even having to open a hatch, or avoid scratching the pristine plastic side panels is a precious commodity.

So when I started looking at building a camper, I too naturally thought that a dual purpose convertible would be a good solution. What I found in my research was that there were many people that had the same thought, but that found it to be impractical in practice. The convenience of a utility trailer is already a compromise over a truck or SUV. You have to plan ahead, hook-up and tow to use.

Now if you load your "utility trailer" up with a camper, bolt it down, connect electrical wiring, not to mention other potential camper features like dropped floors, storage boxes, fenders mounted to side walls, tail lights mounted to rear hatch, and on and on, the thought of a dual purpose trailer starts to really restrict the design elements of the camper, or makes the feasibility of easily divorcing the cabin and trailer less and less practical.

Sure it is doable, but even if you start with a bone stock utility and build a rear entry "slide in" style self contained unit with lift legs mounted way outboard, you will still have to unbolt/unstrap/unlatch and crank, crank, crank, crank to have the convenience of hooking up to tow your ute. AND (big and) your camper will not have a traditional look or character.

The bottom line for me was that it was just not as practical as it sounded at first. The things I wanted in a camper conflicted with the 'not quite as practical as I would like it to be' ute. I made the decision that when I just could not get by any further without a utility trailer, that I would either get one of those hitch mount grated platforms, or cruise CL for a small ute to add to the collection of trailers.

p.s. The guy I sold my old p/u to for $500 ($100 less than I paid for it after about 60k miles and only $1200 in self made repairs...it owed me nothing) bought it expressly as a beater only for making dump runs. I'm not even sure he intend to register it.

If that doesn't sway your opinion, then you may want to take a look at the WAZAT. It is an aluminum framed camper/utility trailer styled after the weekender (IIRC). Small, super low and light weight.

[kludge]

OK then, setting aside for now the hybrid use...

Would you use this platform and available 2x2 angle steel and build a 5x8 trailer for a tear or TTT? Would it have the strength needed using 2x2 angle for the side rails and crossmembers? Or would you ditch it and start fresh.

Such a plan would also entails getting a wider axle and lowering the deck to ~18".

[48Rob]

It sounds like you really want a lower deck height, and a wider platform?

If so, consider a drop axle.
As shown, your trailers axle is way too far forward anyway, so you'll need to mount new spring hanger hardware.
If you are going to go that far in customizing, then yes, you should consider starting from scratch.
Doing so will give you exactly what you want, with no compromises or "I wish I had done..." thoughts later.
The frame isn't long enough, or wide enough and you already question its strength.

Something heard here often after someone modifies an old frame is "I should have just built a custom frame", as it would have cost no more, and been less effort.
It can be done either way with usually good results, but designing a frame for your trailer, as opposed to designing your trailer to fit an old frame, is often a better choice.

I agree also with KC.
While dual purpose is a nice thought, in reality, it is a pain to implement.

Rob

[kludge]

It's a simple question really... it seems like everyone here is overthinking it... is 2x2 angle strong enough?... all the other decisions hinge on that.

Actually, the trailer is 7x8 and I'm thinking of making it a 5x8, so I would be going narrower, and getting a wider axle (from ~54" to ~66") so I can take out the 3" lift blocks and get it down to ~18" deck height. I don't think I'd need a drop axle for that. Since the axle would be replaced, relocating it is not an issue.

The boat frame/tongue as is is plenty strong for a tear, I just need to know if 2x2 angle is strong enough for the perimenter that the walls will rest on. If I rebuild the frame it will be customized for whatever goes on top, so I won't be doing the shoulda woulda coulda thing.

The advantage of rebilding is Cost (already have the material in the trailer, and I have a welder friend) and Registration (it's already registered as a home built trailer with a VIN).

I'll be back maybe tonight or tomorrow with a sketch of what I'm thinking so you all can comment on that rather than comment on what I'm starting with.

[KCStudly]

Do your research. There are limits on how much wider the axle can be from the main frame rail spring mounting locations due to the leverage that this puts on the spring mounting point of the axle. This will vary depending on he axle rating and maker's spec's.

The question about the angle stock depends. If you were going with a slide in and keeping the double rail side ladder frame, then it seems to me (TLAR method) that the side rails would be more than okay for a reasonably light weight build. The side rails are not so much of a concern because the cabin walls make the sides of the trailer incredibly strong due to the depth of section.

The bigger concern is the large cantilever from the main frame to outside floor rail and the rear overhanging section. If the front and rear walls were both bearing down on the main rails, then they could be built stout enough to carry the loads from the side walls back to the main frame. The walls themselves take care of the long direction. The fact that you are considering going narrower helps reduce the span of the xmbr's which is good. The area that concerns me the most is the big rear overhang. Think about extending the main rails with box tubing and adding a more substantial rear xmbr under your rear wall and/or bulkhead.

If you decide to build your own trailer from scratch, make sure to research the inspection requirements in your state. There may be some extra hoops to jump through that should be considered.

[kludge]

Here's the concept...

I took some more measurements and spent some time getting a few more things right, and then started hacking and welding... virtually, of course.

The cental frame is 2x3x1/8 C-channel. The rest is 2x2x1/8 angle.

Moving the springs further apart to be under the outboard rails is certainly an option. No axle or wheels this time, just the frame.

[M C Toyer]

Since you're still in the virtual world -

If you still have a need for the trailer as is, i.e., a utility transport, I would think it more cost effective to start with another trailer and save the cost of a new axle, hardware, and the time and material to cut and re-weld. If you don't need it sell or trade toward another trailer.

You can pick up used boat trailers suitable for a 5 x 8 for a couple of hundred bucks. I saw one on Craigslist in your area for $200 with a double bottom aluminum boat included - probably a hundred bucks worth of scrap metal there.

If the crossmembers are bowed simply add a straight one on top. You could even cut a 2 x 6 or 2 x 8 board to match the bow and make that part of your floor framing. If too long take it off the tongue - the axle will probably be well rear of center already where it needs to be.

M C