Camera traffic tickets

[wagondude]

I still don't understand how these things still haven't been declared unconstitutional. Keep fighting the good fight. We are all pulling for you.

[mustangcats]

I believe in being a careful driver and following the laws, but the camera enforcement does not set well with me. The camera cannot substitute the eyes of a police officer who actually witnessed what happened and why it happened. For example: The tall vehicle in front of me blocked the light and I didn't see it was changing until it was too late. Or...I heard emergency sirens and was trying to get out of the way.

I read that the problem with right turns on red is that people make the stop too late (going over the stop line). Usually if you stop at or before the line, you can't see the traffic coming from the left because the vehicles to the left are blocking the vision...and that is why most people stop too late and trip the camera. It might be a good idea to check that intersection to see if it has a stop line and if so, where it is placed in relation to the intersection.

Those cameras are owned by companies whose only motive is to make money. And unfortunately they find cities that are willing to play along with their scheme. The good news is that many cities are finding the cameras aren't making them the money they were promised and that, combined with public backlash, is causing them to get rid of them. I read that a city had them turned off before the expiration of the contract and the company that owned the cameras threatened to sue the city for breach of contract and loss of income. Proof that the only motive for them is greed. I'm surprised people haven't used the cameras for target practice.

[jeff0520]

As the economy has slowed, people habe cut back, and real estate values have fallen. State and local governments have gotten into a cash squeeze causedby shrinking sales tax and property tax revenues. Many of them have tried to close the gap with BS traffic ticket fines. I drive a truck, and I can attest, they are out shaking people down for money everywhere.
Bravo on fighting them. If more people did that it would grind the courts to a halt, and make it unprofitable for the government, and make them knock it off

[S. Heisley]

As the economy has slowed, people habe cut back, and real estate values have fallen. State and local governments have gotten into a cash squeeze causedby shrinking sales tax and property tax revenues. Many of them have tried to close the gap with BS traffic ticket fines. I drive a truck, and I can attest, they are out shaking people down for money everywhere.
Bravo on fighting them. If more people did that it would grind the courts to a halt, and make it unprofitable for the government, and make them knock it off

The courts are already overburdened. They would just raise the court fees (or start charging, if they don't already)....yet another way to make money!
Still, it's good to fight for what is right, even if you have to sit on a hard bench for a couple business days or so, waiting your turn.

[eamarquardt]

Still, it's good to fight for what is right, even if you have to sit on a hard bench for a couple business days or so, waiting your turn.

I don't do well sitting and not keeping busy as I'm not distracting myself enough to keep the pain I experience at bay. Also this BS is stressful and stress aggravates chronic pain. So, plan "A" is to write a letter to the judge explaining my wife wasn't the driver, explain my calculations and why the "evidence" in the photographs, recorded speed, and elapsed time all support my contention that I stopped, and have my physics and calculations verified by a professional engineer (PhD in Mechanical Engineering and college instructor) and a second professional engineer (electrical engineer) with their official PE stamps on my calculations.

I'll also state I'm disabled, driving is difficult at times, and it would be very difficult for me to write them a check (I think I'd be so mad my hand would be shaking and make the check illegible, ha) and the whole thing is a mistake because the system is defective by design.

More to follow.

Cheers,

Gus

[pete42]

Gus said "I'll also state I'm disabled, driving is difficult at times, and it would be very difficult for me to write them a check (I think I'd be so mad my hand would be shaking and make the check illegible, ha) and the whole thing is a mistake because the system is defective by design."
I'm not sure I would tell them I'm too disabled to write a check but I'm ok to drive.
seems counter intuitive to me.
ps I too am disabled but drive and sign checks .

good luck Don Quixote tried too.

pete

[jeff0520]

As the economy has slowed, people habe cut back, and real estate values have fallen. State and local governments have gotten into a cash squeeze causedby shrinking sales tax and property tax revenues. Many of them have tried to close the gap with BS traffic ticket fines. I drive a truck, and I can attest, they are out shaking people down for money everywhere.
Bravo on fighting them. If more people did that it would grind the courts to a halt, and make it unprofitable for the government, and make them knock it off

The courts are already overburdened. They would just raise the court fees (or start charging, if they don't already)....yet another way to make money!
Still, it's good to fight for what is right, even if you have to sit on a hard bench for a couple business days or so, waiting your turn.

The key to it is to REFUSE to sign the little waiver they try to slip in that waives your right to a "speedy trial." They slip that one in on you, and most people sign it thinking they will get off easier if they cooperate. If they can't provide you with a speedy trial, they have to dismiss the case

[jeff0520]

Still, it's good to fight for what is right, even if you have to sit on a hard bench for a couple business days or so, waiting your turn.

I don't do well sitting and not keeping busy as I'm not distracting myself enough to keep the pain I experience at bay. Also this BS is stressful and stress aggravates chronic pain. So, plan "A" is to write a letter to the judge explaining my wife wasn't the driver, explain my calculations and why the "evidence" in the photographs, recorded speed, and elapsed time all support my contention that I stopped, and have my physics and calculations verified by a professional engineer (PhD in Mechanical Engineering and college instructor) and a second professional engineer (electrical engineer) with their official PE stamps on my calculations.

I'll also state I'm disabled, driving is difficult at times, and it would be very difficult for me to write them a check (I think I'd be so mad my hand would be shaking and make the check illegible, ha) and the whole thing is a mistake because the system is defective by design.

More to follow.

Cheers,

Gus

Keep it simple. They charged your wife with the offence of running a red light. She was not triving the truck that day, therefore she is not guilty. I wouldn't worry about the rest until they charge YOU with running the red light.

[eamarquardt]

To get my wife out of the ticket we have to say who was driving the vehicle. Gus

[eamarquardt]

After many hours on the telephone I finally learned that the Sheriff's Department issued the ticket. So, I called the Sheriff's Department and, on the first call (a major miracle) got the phone number for the officer that issued the ticket!!!!!!! I called the number and today is a frigging holiday so he's not in. However the officer that answered the phone said I should talk to his supervisor and patched me through to his voicemail. I left a nice and detailed message.

I'm making progress.

More to follow.

Gus

[rebapuck]

And if you go to court, win or lose, you pay court costs.

[jstrubberg]

That is 100% up to the judge. Court costs can be dismissed just like fines.

[campmaster-k]

Gus- try this if your plans fails. It will not cost you a dime and will give you some traction.

Make an appointment with the City Manager or equal counterpart if you live in the county. Make sure that you request the City Attorney be present at the meeting. Bring all your stuff and also request that a member of the city council or County Supervisor be there. Call a news reporter (they love this stuff) and bring the reporter to the meeting. I guarantee this will freak them all out. I know I am a councilman and have had this happen to me.

What will happen next is the City Attorney will present this case ( they have to) to the City Council in its next closed session meeting as potential litigation. By now the City or County will have already spent more than the ticket will bring in. Most likely they will worm out of the mess before it cost them more money and grief. If they dont drop the ticket go to the next city council meeting and bring the reporter. Talk a lot about your disability and you will be on the front page of the newspaper. Be sure to invite everyone you know and all of your relatives. If you end up having to pay at least you will get to have some fun for your money.

Potential Litigation are the most dirty words in politics. Citizens have big power one on one with councilmembers.

[eamarquardt]

Gus- try this if your plans fails. It will not cost you a dime and will give you some traction.

Make an appointment with the City Manager or equal counterpart if you live in the county. Make sure that you request the City Attorney be present at the meeting. Bring all your stuff and also request that a member of the city council or County Supervisor be there. Call a news reporter (they love this stuff) and bring the reporter to the meeting. I guarantee this will freak them all out. I know I am a councilman and have had this happen to me.

What will happen next is the City Attorney will present this case ( they have to) to the City Council in its next closed session meeting as potential litigation. By now the City or County will have already spent more than the ticket will bring in. Most likely they will worm out of the mess before it cost them more money and grief. If they dont drop the ticket go to the next city council meeting and bring the reporter. Talk a lot about your disability and you will be on the front page of the newspaper. Be sure to invite everyone you know and all of your relatives. If you end up having to pay at least you will get to have some fun for your money.

Potential Litigation are the most dirty words in politics. Citizens have big power one on one with councilmembers.

Kirk, I like your approach of screwing with them. That said, this is LOS ANGELES and they are too big to care about the "little people" (they took lessons from Leona Helmsly, aka "The Queen of Mean"). After a considerable number of phone calls, mis-steps, and drama I finally go to the officer that signed the ticket (without even looking at the photograph and seeing that the driver was obviously a male (ME) versus a female (wife) and issued the ticket to my wife). See, our government employees are too busy to even look at a photograph before they issue a citation. I learned that the ticket is not for not stopping at the red light but for making a right turn against red light when the intersection is posted no right turn on red. I drove the whole length of this road as it crosses the San Fernando Valley (about 8 or 9 miles) and this is the only intersection with no right turn on red! Apparently its' because there is a bus pavilion there with people getting on and off buses. But remember this is Los Angeles and the buses run, for the most part, empty sp there weren't an inordinate number of people around! So, there are two signs at the intersection. One on the right as you approach the intersection. I probably missed that sign be because I was focused on the light changing from green, to yellow, to red. Once you stop behind the line, you can't see this sign as it is behind you. The other sign is high in the air in the middle of the intersection. I probably missed that sign as I was focused on the right side signals, making sure the crosswalk, was clear, and down the road at road level to the left to make sure there were no oncoming cars. I was NOT focused on the light and only visible sign high in the middle of the intersection because I was getting my "green/red light" information on the signal on the right corner in front of me. Make sense? That's my story and I'm sticking to it (learned that line from my friend "The Convict" who spent (unfairly) some time at "Club Fed". Anyway the ticket, as far as I can figure, indicates that mine was the 11th violation. I'd have to think that they reset the counter each day. It was 1600 on a typical day. So, even if you discount the number of violations a day down to ten that is 3,650 people a year that are making the same mistake I did. Something ain't right here! Of course 3,650 X $500 = $1,825,000 in income. $1,825,000, $1,825,000 there and pretty soon you're talking "real money". The general feeling of the populace here in California is that traffic fines are no longer representative of trying to get people to behave and be safer drivers but REVENUE. I think one could argue that it's a "set up". Yeah they've probably met their "standards" for sign placement but clearly, to one who has gotten a $500 ticket, "it just ain't right". So, my plan is to go before the judge, plead "guilty with an explanation", have pictures, explain why I think it's a set up (deliberate or not), too many people are making a simple mistake (due to poorly placed signs) and getting hammered. I will then "suggest" that he can dismiss the ticket and that I be permitted to raise hell with the city, get the signage changed, and provide him a summary of my activities to that end.

That's my plan but I'm open to suggestions. In a big city like this I'm not entirely convinced that the city council will give a rats. I'm gonna run it past an attorney though to see what he thinks.

Thanks for the thought, it's a good one, and I do think that I'll look up the city council members and send them a fax or EMail to see what they have to say about my assessment of the situation.

I have plenty of time as they have to change the ticket from my wife to me and that, I'm told, will probably take till after the first of the year. Remember we're dealing with government bureaucracy here and they move at their own pace.

I'm open to any further input.

Thanks,

Gus

[wagondude]

So what happens to your right to a speedy trial through this process?