7x16 Cargo Camper

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Hi Mark

do you have a link to the e bay sell of the heater ? Also they talk about 900 & 2000 watt output
Would I be correct to assume about thats 3,000 and 6,000 Btu per hour ? or do you know the Btu rating ?

does it smell like desiel or gas inside the trailer ?

Thanks Jerry

[Mark519]

Jerry,
The ebay seller I used was "truckandautoparts" at $835 total. Others sell these units a lot higher but this seller currently has none listed. So maybe he is out of stock? Look for Webasto Airtop 2000 ST with install kit. It includes a bunch of parts in the kit.

The unit puts out up to 2kW which is 7000 btu/hr according to the specs I see but I dont have the actual manual handy right now. There is no smell inside because it is a sealed unit. It is very safe when properly installed and maintained.

[Mark519]

I added a shelf on the left hand side and finished the counter top. There are still lots of finishing details like cabinet doors and ceiling but that will be done last. The gray water tank is on order so I will probably install it next. Or maybe I will start on the fold down table.

[roadinspector]

You are having entirely too much fun with your build! very nice!!
Who made your faucet and where did you get it? That type of unit is what I've been hunting for and can't find.

Earnest

[Mark519]

Earnest, Thanks! The faucet and sink came from Amazon for $108: "Moen 22245 Camelot Stainless Steel 20 Gauge Single Bowl Drop In Sink with Faucet, Stainless" http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001009VGS/

[my240z]

Wow such great work . keep the updates coming please.

[roadinspector]

Earnest, Thanks! The faucet and sink came from Amazon for $108: "Moen 22245 Camelot Stainless Steel 20 Gauge Single Bowl Drop In Sink with Faucet, Stainless" http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001009VGS/

Thank you Sir!!! That's a good deal Stainless sink and a Moen. I will check it out. Keep up the good work with pictures.

Earnest

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Hey Mark

How is my favorite NASA rocket scientist guy doing ??

.... I'm thinking to order a new trailer from Lark 8.5 x 18 model 2013 and to make some more mods
The current 7 x 16 model is good for 40 deg to 80 deg, but I'm looking for 20 deg to 100 deg version, without any landline connection.

Since I have the curved roof mine is harder to insulate & I now notice I have lots of interior condensation on the metal ribs, even though I am not cooking.
The good news is even down at 40 deg it stays around 50 inside without any extra heat, but now that we have 75-85% humidity I can see the condensation.
I'm thinking on the next model to spray the interior metal first with a rubber like under coating , then do wall foam like you did, then a second layer with more foam & final more plywood to make a complete box inside a box. My thinking is I should be able to keep unit warm 50+ without to much heat 30 deg, just from lights, tv & fridge etc.

How Is your insulation package working if I may ask ?? any and all details would be very helpful ??

I am trying to design a trailer package that will work from 20 deg - to 100 deg with a min of additional heating and cooling.
Im pretty sure that 6500 Btu a/c will do the trick for cooling as my 5000 works pretty good now.
I was thinking to try the electric floor heating mats and tiles under my 9" thick queen bed & see how that works?
its about 15 watts per sq ft of heating pad, will have to do some tests see how it works
On the next trailer I will have 1530 watts solar and somewhere between 800 - 1200 amp hour batteries.
I dont really like gas heating that much , for cooking and water heating its ok..
I am also finding that I am able to live in 50 deg temp with any problems. Its more the heat that I hate.

I'm thinking to move the water heater inside as I don't like when it gets wet on the exterior... I can always vent it to the exterior,
also it will use less water as it will only have 2- 3 ft to the shower and sink, right now it uses about 1.5 quarts to heat up I would say a 10 ft run

I'm thinking tandem 5200 torsion axels, 45 deg negative with disk breaks & at least 1 set of your electric jacks on the rear.
any tips on what you would do to improve on your model would be very helpful !!!

Thanks Jerry

[Mark519]

Hi Jerry,
I will do my best to answer your questions!! First, an update... I have installed the gray water tank, fold down table and Equal-i-zer hitch. I will have a real update with pictures on that later.

I took the trailer out last weekend and it got down to low 30's and not above 50 with around 50% interior humidity. The Webasto heater kept it at 70 degrees and only burned one gallon of diesel. Any place that was not insulated got some condensation. I still have some unfinished metal ribs that go through to the interior and they got wet but not dripping. I found that a fan circulating the air inside helped eliminate chill spots, and I may install a second vent for the heater more in the middle.

I don't think there was any condensation behind the plywood although I guess that is possible if conditions are extreme enough. I did my best to block air in/ex-filtration by sealing each layer of polyiso and wood. I guess the rubber spray could be beneficial for some small amount of insulation but condensation could still form on rubber. And then it runs down inside the walls and has nowhere to go? I think the ultimate is a layer of polyiso over the interior plyood. Then paneling goes over polyiso. I would have done that myself but needed every bit of interior width with my 7' wide trailer. But the walls felt warm to the touch so it does the job good enough.

The floor was rather cold but not unbearable. I have considered 2" polyiso under the floor. My concern there is trapping moisture against the plywood and causing rot. Your floor tiles will eat up a lot of battery power, and I would worry about them failing and maybe burning but that is just me.

Maybe you could put down polyiso inside on the floor followed by a layer of plywood to create the full box within a box. Some crush testing would be necessary to determine the thickness of polyiso and plywood. And there is additional weight.

My ceiling could be improved by putting a full sheet of polyiso over the ribs and not fitting it between the 1/2" plywood "furring strips".

When the trailer is not heated or cooled I want the temp and humidity to be the same inside and out to prevent storage mildew. I installed a very low power ventilation fan in the ceiling (a slow computer fan). As a side effect it creates a slight positive pressure so the trailer should not draw up air from underneath it (exhaust). I was also concerned about being inside it and running "out of air" and I can run it while we are in there without adversely affecting the heating and cooling. So it stays on all the time.

I do have a frost proof faucet on the washdown spigot, and have the freshwater tank inside for greater freeze resistance. I tried to design it to be fully drainable but there would be water left in some areas and there is no easy way to remove pex crimps. My gray tank is outside but it can be left open or use antifreeze.

I don't have any windows although I might put one in the door (double glazed sealed).

You might look into the diesel burning hydronic heaters like the Webasto TSL-17. I don't like propane either and one of these could do it all in theory.

Maybe you could save some power by putting 12v dc blower(s) on your air cond unit?

Make sure the trailer production manager knows EXACTLY what you want. Do not expect the sales girls to communicate special things correctly.

Mark

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Hi Jerry,

I took the trailer out last weekend and it got down to low 30's and not above 50 with around 50% interior humidity. The Webasto heater kept it at 70 degrees and only burned one gallon of diesel. Any place that was not insulated got some condensation. I still have some unfinished metal ribs that go through to the interior and they got wet but not dripping. I found that a fan circulating the air inside helped eliminate chill spots, and I may install a second vent for the heater more in the middle.

I was sort of wondering how warm it would be without the heater running at all, just generating heat from your body, TV, Frig etc ...

I don't think there was any condensation behind the plywood although I guess that is possible if conditions are extreme enough. I did my best to block air in/ex-filtration by sealing each layer of polyiso and wood. I guess the rubber spray could be beneficial for some small amount of insulation but condensation could still form on rubber. And then it runs down inside the walls and has nowhere to go? I think the ultimate is a layer of polyiso over the interior plyood. Then paneling goes over polyiso. I would have done that myself but needed every bit of interior width with my 7' wide trailer.

I had the same space problem with adding 2 layers of stuff, so I did it your way too. I did however do the floor on the underside...but the metal ribs just transfer way to much heat and cold really fast. Since I have the extra wood flooring its ok to walk on barefoot at 40 deg coldest I have been in. BUT REALLY , next time I will go with 1/2" plywood, then 1.5 to 2" foam and a second layer plywood to do the floor. So you really need 7 ft interior height.

The floor was rather cold but not unbearable. I have considered 2" polyiso under the floor. My concern there is trapping moisture against the plywood and causing rot. Your floor tiles will eat up a lot of battery power, and I would worry about them failing and maybe burning but that is just me.

Well it has a thermostat so you can make adjustments and experiment around a bit & chose how much elec you wanna burn...so time will tell if and how it works, but the principal of heating the bed from the bottom should work ok

Maybe you could put down polyiso inside on the floor followed by a layer of plywood to create the full box within a box. Some crush testing would be necessary to determine the thickness of polyiso and plywood. And there is additional weight.

I don't think the floor would get smashed down to much, the foam is pretty strong.

My ceiling could be improved by putting a full sheet of polyiso over the ribs and not fitting it between the 1/2" plywood "furring strips".

I am planning to put a second layer on my ceiling when I get around to it after some more foaming to the open ribs.

When the trailer is not heated or cooled I want the temp and humidity to be the same inside and out to prevent storage mildew. I installed a very low power ventilation fan in the ceiling (a slow computer fan). As a side effect it creates a slight positive pressure so the trailer should not draw up air from underneath it (exhaust). I was also concerned about being inside it and running "out of air" and I can run it while we are in there without adversely affecting the heating and cooling. So it stays on all the time.

Don't worry about running out of air, all those teardrop owners would be dead

I do have a frost proof faucet on the washdown spigot, and have the freshwater tank inside for greater freeze resistance. I tried to design it to be fully drainable but there would be water left in some areas and there is no easy way to remove pex crimps. My gray tank is outside but it can be left open or use antifreeze.

You could use one of those little Dremmel grinders to cut the PEX crimp bands. I will put the frost proof faucet on the list. Also I see some guys with the camping gas water heaters inside & I have lots of fans to move about 800 CFM

I don't have any windows although I might put one in the door (double glazed sealed).

I am not planning any windows as I have the 4 x DVR - 700 line infra red cameras and can see on my TV what is going on outside.
I have found some LED lights that are supper bright, can change to 20 colors including white & are dimable.

You might look into the diesel burning hydronic heaters like the Webasto TSL-17. I don't like propane either and one of these could do it all in theory.

My problems get even worse with the diesel stuff, I once was on a Diesel boat where the dumb ass captain drove into the wind & I almost dropped dead from sucking in all that nasty Diesel.... Anybody who does not believe sucking in to much Diesel won't make you sick, is beyond hope for me.

Make sure the trailer production manager knows EXACTLY what you want.

I only wanna ORDER the unit if I work with the right person directly, such as designer or Production manager, otherwise the whole project is a NO GO for me.
I already been there done that - with the 3 blind & dumb idiots down the line.

Thanks Jerry

Mark

[Mark519]

There is too much heat loss from air gaps and insulation faults for any "ambient heating" from body heat, tvs, etc. to make much difference in my trailer - maybe a few degrees at most. I think that ambient heating would only work in a small, very tight, very well insulated box. But if its too tight respiration humidity would build up depending on the body count. I have read about some teardrops that got too tight and the occupant woke up gasping (on too much CO2). I probably don't need a ventilation fan because cargo trailers have air gaps in the doors but it doesn't seem to make much difference. You might try an oil filled heater if fast heating isn't your goal. I am trying one right now to keep it warmer in the driveway. Don't know if a DC model is available.

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Hi Mark

I think I am picking up about 8-10 -12 deg from the "ambient heating" with 2 people 12+ deg which is pretty good since my Insulation is only about 50% done right.
I have tried & really like the oil filled radiators, it heats the trailer almost too good on the low setting # 4 on the 600 watt side only,
I never used the 900 or both sides...then I would cook my goose for sure. I like the invisible heating concept however
This is why I am thinking of the floor heating matts on tiles under the queen bed or on the floor a 20 sq ft mat would only burn 300 watt max ...
they have settings from 1-15 ...for example at setting #8 it would only use 160 watts per hour ....max as it is 50% on and 50% off

If I get 1,200 amp hour batteries & 1530 watts solar - I should have plenty extra juice to burn even in Alaska

Since our trailer is 6 x bigger then a tear drop i'm not worried about running out of air yet.

I will also try to get the side door insulated really well from the factory ...."my current 32" side door swelled as I used expanding foam"
In your current set up you have air gaps, side door not insulated & nothing on the floor - also I have more cabinets to take up space & help out

I think I will need to get and use a dehumidifier to keep the interior dry .....
anyway its fun experimenting around with the project...I'm doing mostly 75% driveway camping testing the life style
so if I ever hit the road full time ....I'm already in the groove

Jerry

[roadinspector]

I understand you are averted to propane heat due to the fumes. Have you considered an RV propane heater? There are no fumes in the trailer. They are exhausted outside. The fan runs on 12v and does not use that much power. If you have solar unit keeping the battery charged that solves any power loss problem. You have dry warm air circulating which will stop any condensation.

Earnest

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Hey Mark

long time no hear or post I have not had any luck hearing back from Lark after 10 days to my inquiry about building a new unit ?
I guess business is too good, to bother with someone who wants something special for only $10k

I have been doing lots research on all the trailer parts, I think I can find just about anything from side panels to frames & posts etc

I had a idea - lets see what you think ? Since I do not have any windows
I was thinking to install a hatch cover into the top of the fold down cargo door, the area above my bed.
like 36" wide x 24" high -- http://www.hatchlift.com/rv-hatch-gallery.aspx
On top of that I wanted to Install a rear solar panel- so it appears panel is attached to cargo door,
In real life however the solar panel can be tilted up & act as hidden tilt up window or rear excape hatch

I also researched Dexter Axels & talked to factory reps....
Best Axel with the smoothes ride is loaded 80-90% of max rating,
22.5 deg neg , Easy Lube, Never adjust Elec breaks
cost about $498 per axel + $150 shipping for both.
Its a little tricky to weld axels brackets to frames - everything is supposed to be within 1/8"
Local dealer wanted $1.8K for the axels & $840 labor to install at $105 per hour. INSANE

Still trying to decide if I should get new unit 8.5 x 18 or to rip the
current 7 x 16 apart and start from scratch - with Dexter Torsion & BETTER Insulation....
each plan has pros and cons
Saw a supper tricked out Cargomate today but only 8.5 x 16 - only $6300 in California - not bad price

On your electric trailer lifts , if the trailer sits 18" high - I guess you would get the 30" electric lift jacks ?
how are they working so far ? can you post some pictures of them jacking your trailer ? PRETTY PLEASE

Jerry

[Mark519]

Hi Jerry,
I have made progress, got the ceiling in, gray water tank in, fold down table built. I will post pics real soon now. I also got an equalizer hitch but have had some difficulty setting it up.

The guys in Douglass GA were very busy when I went down there, and ran a tight production line so I agree business must be too good to deal with much in the way of special requests like ours.

Those hatch doors may not be strong enough for solar panels. Why not fabricate mounts out of aluminum and rivets?

You have a great rig as it is... you'll discover new problems with a new one!

Whats wrong with your current axles?

On the jacks, they do not lift nearly as much when the ground is close (<14"). They get more leverage as they extend. 30" jacks might not have enough power to lift much at 18". But they would be fine for stabilizing- which is really what they are for. Lifting is very conditional. My jacks are working fine but they strain lifting the 900 lb front tongue so I am a little worried about that long term. I will have to get the trailer off my sloped driveway to do some pics on the lifting. Next road trip...