Anybody packin?

[bdosborn]

And now for a little more pot stirring.....


CCW permit holders are the most law-abiding citizens:

"In Florida, where 315,000 permits have been issued, there are only five known instances of violent
gun crime by a person with a permit. This makes a permit-holding Floridian the cream of the crop of
law-abiding citizens, 840 times less likely to commit a violent firearm crime than a randomly
selected Floridian without a permit." (David Kopel – “More Permits Mean Less Crime...” Los
Angeles Times, Feb. 19, 1996, Monday, p. B-5
http://www.i2i.org/SuptDocs/Crime/More_ ... _Crime.htm )

“If the rest of the country behaved as Florida's permit holders did, the U.S. would have the lowest
homicide rate in the world.” http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgcon.html

“So far in Virginia, not a single Virginia permit holder has been involved in a violent crime. Similar
results have been observed in Kentucky, Nevada, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee and
other states for which detailed records are available" John R. Lott, Jr. License to Kill?
http://www.davekopel.org/2A/OpEds/Licen ... 20Kill.htm

“Dade County, Florida, kept meticulous records for six years, and of 21,000 permit holders, there
was no known incident of a permit holder injuring an innocent person. In addition, since Virginia
passed a right-to-carry law more than 50,000 permits have been issued, but not one permit holder has
been convicted of a crime and violent crime has dropped.” H. Sterling Burnett, No Smoking Guns
http://www.ncpa.org/oped/sterling/mar899.html

Bruce

[eaglesdare]

i watched a couple of those shows steven segal was doing (as a cop in new orleans). but there was one where he was shooting at a match. suppose to catch the match on fire. he was showing a younger new cop how its done. well he shot and took off the match head, did not catch it on fire. but to me, that was pretty darn good shooting.
i can shoot a can and knock it off the log, but to shoot at a particular spot on that can on purpose is another story.

[LDK]

And now for a little more pot stirring.....


CCW permit holders are the most law-abiding citizens:

"In Florida, where 315,000 permits have been issued, there are only five known instances of violent
gun crime by a person with a permit. This makes a permit-holding Floridian the cream of the crop of
law-abiding citizens, 840 times less likely to commit a violent firearm crime than a randomly
selected Floridian without a permit." (David Kopel – “More Permits Mean Less Crime...” Los
Angeles Times, Feb. 19, 1996, Monday, p. B-5
http://www.i2i.org/SuptDocs/Crime/More_ ... _Crime.htm )

“If the rest of the country behaved as Florida's permit holders did, the U.S. would have the lowest
homicide rate in the world.” http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgcon.html

“So far in Virginia, not a single Virginia permit holder has been involved in a violent crime. Similar
results have been observed in Kentucky, Nevada, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee and
other states for which detailed records are available" John R. Lott, Jr. License to Kill?
http://www.davekopel.org/2A/OpEds/Licen ... 20Kill.htm

“Dade County, Florida, kept meticulous records for six years, and of 21,000 permit holders, there
was no known incident of a permit holder injuring an innocent person. In addition, since Virginia
passed a right-to-carry law more than 50,000 permits have been issued, but not one permit holder has
been convicted of a crime and violent crime has dropped.” H. Sterling Burnett, No Smoking Guns
http://www.ncpa.org/oped/sterling/mar899.html

Bruce

Good job on the research Bruce!!

[sagebrush]

Good job on the research Bruce!! [/quote]

[Bear_Rider]

And now for a little more pot stirring.....


CCW permit holders are the most law-abiding citizens:

"In Florida, where 315,000 permits have been issued, there are only five known instances of violent
gun crime by a person with a permit. This makes a permit-holding Floridian the cream of the crop of
law-abiding citizens, 840 times less likely to commit a violent firearm crime than a randomly
selected Floridian without a permit." (David Kopel – “More Permits Mean Less Crime...” Los
Angeles Times, Feb. 19, 1996, Monday, p. B-5
http://www.i2i.org/SuptDocs/Crime/More_ ... _Crime.htm )

“If the rest of the country behaved as Florida's permit holders did, the U.S. would have the lowest
homicide rate in the world.” http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgcon.html

“So far in Virginia, not a single Virginia permit holder has been involved in a violent crime. Similar
results have been observed in Kentucky, Nevada, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee and
other states for which detailed records are available" John R. Lott, Jr. License to Kill?
http://www.davekopel.org/2A/OpEds/Licen ... 20Kill.htm

“Dade County, Florida, kept meticulous records for six years, and of 21,000 permit holders, there
was no known incident of a permit holder injuring an innocent person. In addition, since Virginia
passed a right-to-carry law more than 50,000 permits have been issued, but not one permit holder has
been convicted of a crime and violent crime has dropped.” H. Sterling Burnett, No Smoking Guns
http://www.ncpa.org/oped/sterling/mar899.html

Bruce

Texas had similar results. They have survey results going back 15 years:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/reports/convrates.htm

[angib]

And now for a little more pot stirring.....

Interesting stuff, Bruce.

It does look from this that gun-carrying is much more about countering fear than about countering actual risk.

“If the rest of the country behaved as Florida's permit holders did, the U.S. would have the lowest
homicide rate in the world.” http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgcon.html

But you know it's just the opposite, right? The US has way the highest homicide rate in the developed world, ten times that of Japan.

Is there a high homicide rate because there are guns or are there guns because the homicide rate is high?

[DrCrash]

A better question.

How many homicideds were from guns?

I've looked but it seems the statistics are skewed .
If a gun was present but not used it was firearms related.
If it was an accidental shooting it was counted..

I would like to see the real numbers not slanted one way or the other. how many were killed by firearms, not suicide or accidents.

[eamarquardt]

.........................Is there a high homicide rate because there are guns or are there guns because the homicide rate is high?

The old "which came first, the chicken or the egg question", eh?

Gus

[Wimperdink]

I've been watching this thread since its inception and getting a kick out of the drama as it unfolded. Now that the heat is off, I can join lol. I have two .22 long rifles, a 12 gauge, and a 380 handgun, and various pieces of archery equipment. As much as I love my guns, I've never felt compelled to carry them on me. There has been the occasion that I have kept one or the other loaded and within reach at home and would use one if I felt threatened but I tend to stay away from public areas that feel unsafe. I realize that any area can be unsafe under the right conditions, but after 37 years of "being lucky", I'll take my chances. Also if I lived in an area that was perpetually unsafe, I would find a way to move the hell out. My guns are for fun unless I need them otherwise so until then, they will stay locked up. If I get dead because I didn't have them on me, well.... we all die so I'll see ya on the other side when you get there and believe me, you WILL get there. That being said, I strongly support anybody's right to own and carry should they feel the need. Citizen carry doesn't create crime, it levels the playing field.

[Woodbutcher]

I would be more interested in, what is the ratio of those murdered with legal (registered) guns versus those killed with illegal (unregistered) guns? My guess is that more are killed with illegal guns. My next guess is that those expressing their opinions on this thread are probably not the threat we need to aware of.

People will always find a way to kill someone if they want. I don't know why that is or how you stop it. A few years ago we had a story in Chicago, of 2 long time friends having dinner. They got into a fight over who was going to eat that last meatball. The man who decided it was his meatball was stabbed in the heart and died by his long time friend. Over a meatball. I think we have bigger problems in society then who is carrying a weapon legally.

Oh, and never take the last meatball!!

[eamarquardt]

I would be more interested in, what is the ratio of those murdered with legal (registered) guns versus those killed with illegal (unregistered) guns? My guess is that more are killed with illegal guns. My next guess is that those expressing their opinions on this thread are probably not the threat we need to aware of.

People will always find a way to kill someone if they want. I don't know why that is or how you stop it. A few years ago we had a story in Chicago, of 2 long time friends having dinner. They got into a fight over who was going to eat that last meatball. The man who decided it was his meatball was stabbed in the heart and died by his long time friend. Over a meatball. I think we have bigger problems in society then who is carrying a weapon legally.

Oh, and never take the last meatball!!

There were at least three meatballs at the table.

Gus

[Hillmann]

Woodbutcher,

Just because a gun is unregistered doesn't mean they are illegal guns, that may be the case in Chicago and Illinois. But throughout most of the U.S. guns don't get registered unless you buy them from a gun dealer. In fact if you bought a gun through a private sale I don't think it is possible to register it, even if you wanted to(at least in Wisconsin).

[Bear_Rider]

And now for a little more pot stirring.....

Interesting stuff, Bruce.

It does look from this that gun-carrying is much more about countering fear than about countering actual risk.

“If the rest of the country behaved as Florida's permit holders did, the U.S. would have the lowest
homicide rate in the world.” http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgcon.html

But you know it's just the opposite, right? The US has way the highest homicide rate in the developed world, ten times that of Japan.

Is there a high homicide rate because there are guns or are there guns because the homicide rate is high?

Insofar as I know, ever state has had similar results. Those with concealed-carry permits are far more law-abiding than the general public. The vast majority of the crime in this country is found in inner-city sewers, all of them run by the same political party and many of which have opted for draconian gun-control laws in lieu of effective crime control. Of the criminal homicides, a large number of both slayers and slain have previous, often multiple, felony convictions.

Also, you need to be aware that "homicides" as reported counts both justified and unjustified homicides (legal and illegal), and IIRC suicides as well.
Thus a self-defense and a murder are tossed in the same bin, giving a skewed impression.

[DrCrash]

Thus a self-defense and a murder are tossed in the same bin, giving a skewed impression.

Agree'd .....

[jstrubberg]

I don't carry, mostly because I am a terrible shot!

I'm glad to know that those around me do carry, though. Keeps the criminals guessing and in every state I am aware of, the violent crime rate drops after CCW goes into effect.

Now if I could pack a longbow...