General Problem Solving ...

[GPW]

Here’s the problem ... I’ve got 5 cross-braces to span on the trailer and need a floor 78” wide X 144” Long ... Far as I can rekon’ that’s 3 sheets of plywood , and brave little scrap ... gotta be Heavy ! The Old Timers (Vintage plans section ^ ) used “board” floors quite successfully ... that and I’m trying to swear off plywood , but what the heck , I’ve already got plywood ribs ...

Ps. The floor on my little Steel Cargo trailer is made of boards , untreated, unpainted even , and are still in perfect shape ...

[ghcoe]

I do understand where you are coming from GPW. Old timers probably did not know about plywood so they made do with what they were already use to. Do I think modern stuff is good? not always. As with all things there is a compromise, whether it be cost, quality, durability, functionality, ect. I guess it comes down to what you are really willing to live with. If I was going to use planks then I would really lean towards tongue and groove planks because it would keep a nice surface, but now I am talking about more cost. If I decided to use standard planks then I would be looking at less cost, but now I will have to worry about cupping, warping, lifting. If I were to use plywood then I have to worry about keeping it dry. Plywood became popular because it took care of a lot of problems at a lower cost. You think the plywood is bad now, compare it to the early plywood. Oh, and they make good plywood now if you want to pay a premium price. Yes, plywood is heavy, structurally sound it is stronger than same species wood pound per pound, but not as resistant to water. Again it comes to what you want to live with. This stuff can drive you nuts... I know. I think about it constantly . I want a good product at a good price just like everyone else. It is like cheese at the store. Sure I could buy the generic cheese, but it tastes nasty compared to a main stream brand that I can buy for fifty cents more. Would I pay two dollars more? Probably not, I'd be eating nasty tasting cheese. That is one reason I like the foam idea. It takes away a lot of my worries about water intrusion and potential damage at a great cost.

So Here is a idea to roll around in your head. I believe you wanted real wood floor because of rot issues. What if you put a perimeter of real wood along the areas that have potential rot issues and use ply/OSB for the rest of the interior floor? Or maybe design the floor to have a easily replaced sacrificial wood structure?

[Wobbly Wheels]

Refresh my memory on why you excluded a SIP for the floor ?
It seems like an option that would meet your light weight relatively rot resistant needs.

[wagondude]

Glen,

To do your board floor, you have two options that can work for you. The first is to tongue and groove the boards and then edge glue them into your final sheet floor. This requires two router bits and a router table. Runs one side of each board through, then change bits and run the other side through. Lots of setup and trials with scraps to get it right.

The second (better i believe) option is to use the same router table setup with a biscuit slot cutter. Just run both sides through (same side up both times). Then insert a sieries of biscuits and glue like you would for T&G. Then you can cut to your final shape and size.

[KCStudly]

Or spline the boards like some people do for joining ply; one big long biscuit on each side of each board.

Even if the cedar decking is ugly, it is still relatively light and rot resistant. Maybe check back at the borg often to hand select acceptable specimens?

[ghcoe]

Now we are coming up with good ideas that could be thrifty.
One question though, how well will glue attach to cedar?

[KCStudly]

All of the floor sub-frame, wall sills, door surrounds and door frames on TPCE are select cedar, mostly biscuit joined and glued with TB2, some screws here and there. I have no indication that there was anything other than great bonding.

I am assuming that you have some concern about the wood resin preventing a good glue bond. Mine seemed to take the glue just fine.

[ghcoe]

I am assuming that you have some concern about the wood resin preventing a good glue bond. Mine seemed to take the glue just fine.

Yes, that is what I was assuming.

[GPW]

Maybe I’d better make my intentions more clear . This trailer , like all my other trailers will be used for Hurricane Evac ! Unlikely we’ll do any “camping” other than that purpose .... I know that’s disappointing to a group of “campers" , but we all have our own purpose for building these ... That’s mine , so am trying to keep the “bottom line “ to a minimum (Thrifty, being retired and on a fixed income ) ... And it has to be able to sit quietly in the driveway , awaiting intent , and must NOT require a lot of maintenance ... We’ve been the RV trailer route , where each year you’re required to pay a small fortune to a Greedy RV dealer for “required maintenance , which did little to keep the trailer from decomposing as it sat . Had the OSB floor disintegrate from minor leaks or spills .. and plywood floors delaminate ...even in my little foamie where I spilled a soft drink , the plywood lifted in a small spot (grrrr!!!!) Boards seem the logical alternative to me , and I don’t need anything fancy as that will be covered over with a 1/4” foam underlayment and a rug ... As I mentioned before , my tiny Cargo Trailer has a board floor , untreated , and even after these many years is still in perfect shape ... No T&G , no biscuits , just boards ... So like KC said , maybe best to just keep checking around for some good cedar boards and stockpile them for the project ...

[mezmo]

Hey GPW,

Emulate these:
http://singcore.com/index.html

These are a type of "honeycomb" panel, relatively light and very rigid,
plus it's automatically insulated. Hard points can be included, where needed,
by using wood blocks. Do a composite panel this way similar to linuxxxman's
panels, But here, use 1/4 ply or plastic laminate on the bottom [for puncture
resistance] and 3/8 ply on the top with a 1x perimeter frame and hard points,
if needed, and rip 1/4 in ply into strips-n-pieces to make the internal grid, say
based on a 6in square or whatever works to divide into the deck size needed
while maximizing yield from standard material panel sizes as well.

One of our fellow 'Foamlings' built their door that way and were very satisfied.
[Sorry, I can't recall who it was or their build thread at the moment !]

The solid boards as floor were 'old school', but not necessarily better. I think
it was more a matter of cost and availability. Plywood was initially expensive
and not widely available. Once it was more economical and available, its benefits
- strength and ease and speed of installation over individual boarding - made it
the first choice. Now-a-days, unless you live by a sawmill [know anyone with a
cypress sawmill ?] , Good wood, period, is hard to get and costly, especially
the boarding like you want. A composite panel/SIP, as mentioned, should solve
your problem. It would be a minimal amount of wood for it's benefits. Sealing/
encapsulating that well-enough against rot should be doable. If we do everything
"right" [Ha !] water damage shouldn't be a problem if water can't get to it.
[Famous last words !]

Just my view/recommendations, you decision may vary !

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo

P.S. If you really MUST have rot resistant real wood, I Googled "louisiana
cypress dealers/sawmills" and came up with a couple by random choice.
Tongue-and-groove 1x [3/4inch] boards/flooring should work as you want.
If you get good quality for what you'd pay, it'd be worth it for your peace
of mind - especially since that is what you REALLY WANT ! I see no reason
not to 'splurge' on this one item since it is what you REALLY WANT. Compared
to the cost of your RV TT, I'm sure there is no comparison.

http://www.jonesandjonescypress.com/cyp ... vices.html

http://www.dogtrot-lumber.com/lumber/cypress.htm

Can you say "Road Trip !" ?

P.P.S. We have cypress paneling in our den and the kitchen cabinets are
also made of 3/4in wider cypress boards. I remodeled the kitchen a few
years ago and reused the boards I had to take out to fit the new design.
They only had one coat of varnish on them [after 50 years from build date]
so I removed that with denatured alcohol. The resulting wood was a
gorgeous creamy lighter color and it had a unique pleasing scent when I
sawed it. I hated to have to paint over it to fit the new kitchen design
after installing my modifications made from it !

[GPW]

Norm , you’re Brilliant !!! One of my best friends has a cypress sawmill in Lafitte (small one ) and can probably get all the boards I need from him ... “sinker” too” ... Duh !!! Why didn’t I think of that ?

[mezmo]

There You Go !

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo

[GPW]

Just figuring whatever I went with would be thoroughly saturated with “the Mix" and black nasty stuff on the bottom side .... that should make for a good long term floor eh? ... But like you say , it’s a shame to cover up that pretty wood ... Love that butterscotch color of Cypress !!! If I can get that , may just have to be an exposed wood floor and a few throw rugs ... Nice rustic look ... Works for me !!!

While not being primarily a ”camper “ , we might have to live in it for a “while” ... For Katrina , we were gone 6 weeks ... Having a trailer would have made this experience much less “stressful” ... So a good floor is essential ... Everything else (skeleton) is built off the floor, it’s where the ribs tie in ...

[wagondude]

I would still consider the biscuit/spline idea. It will keep your floor surface true and close up points of potential water ingress. Although the cypress will make that less of an issue, the last thing you want is water coming up through your floor boards soaking into soft coverings.

[KCStudly]

GPW, you're getting serious now. That cypress looks like your solution even if it is a bit spendy. Remember big Mike's slogan and the reason you hate commercial RV's.

Don't forget, once the Foamstream is complete there really is no reason to keep the little trailer, so you can factor the sale of that into your build budget. Should fetch a decent figure from one of those southern gentleman hunters, plenty enough to justify the cypress, even if you can't get the buddy rate from your friend.

... and if I had your warm weather I just might be done building by now ... but probably not.