soldering iron

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soldering iron

Postby hmikey » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:15 pm

I know there are some connections in my wiring that must be soldered. What should I look for when shopping for a soldering iron / kit? I'd like to solder as many connections as I can. Mike. Its not a very complicated wiring job.
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Re: soldering iron

Postby bobhenry » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:37 pm

You can do it with good electrical rosin solder and a big red hot bolt but it ain't too convenient.

I have a Weller dual watt soldier gun I have had since 1965 ( I graduated high school in 68 )
It still serves me to this day. The case is cracked and broken from drops and being knocked off the work bench. The work illuminating lights are long gone and I have burnt out the replacable tip 4 or 5 times but its still going.
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Re: soldering iron

Postby eamarquardt » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:41 pm

Actually I think you're better off using solderless connectors and buying a GOOD crimper (not one of the ones that are just glorified wire strippers). It's been my experience that when you solder the wires they get less flexible and sometimes fail at the connection due to movement and vibration. Crimped connections retain more flexibility at the connection and are less prone to failure. You can buy ring terminals, spade terminals, splices, and male and female spade connectors.

Hope this helps.

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Re: soldering iron

Postby hmikey » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:00 pm

Great feedback, I'll probably use a combinstion of both responces. Appreciate the help- thanks Mike
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Re: soldering iron

Postby Shadow Catcher » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:12 pm

Since the vast majority of my soldering is large gauge 10 or larger I am using a micro torch. It is in my tear tool kit.

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Re: soldering iron

Postby GerryS » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:18 pm

Great tool. Keep one in mine as well....

There's another option...I think seller makes it....it's a little larger than a pen...about as thick as a thumb. Good solder iron and a small torch...
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Re: soldering iron

Postby Bogo » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:06 pm

eamarquardt wrote:Actually I think you're better off using solderless connectors and buying a GOOD crimper (not one of the ones that are just glorified wire strippers). It's been my experience that when you solder the wires they get less flexible and sometimes fail at the connection due to movement and vibration. Crimped connections retain more flexibility at the connection and are less prone to failure. You can buy ring terminals, spade terminals, splices, and male and female spade connectors.

X10 on crimping.

Soldering also has the issue of the left over flux. It is corrosive and will slowly eat away at the wire.

The type of crimper to get depends on the crimps too. The store found crimpers are good for a few hundred crimps, then should be replaced. They are also the right type for the crimps with plastic shells. The main problem is under or over crimping. The fancy crimpers make it easy to hit the right spot. I don't worry much. I'll take a slightly over crimped connection and use the cheaper and more generic crimper. I crimp the joint, and then test pull and wiggle the wire. Properly crimped there will be no motion. It will stay put and not pull out. My preference is to use non insulated terminals, then use heat shrink as needed to waterproof them. You can get waterproof terminals with heatshrink, (http://www.waytekwire.com/products/41/Terminals/), but they cost allot. The thing is you need to get the non insulated terminals online rather than at the store. I've been getting them in bags of 100 from Waytek Wire, $4 to $12 per 100 terminals, not $2 to $6 for 3 to 10 terminals like at the store. Terminals: (http://www.waytekwire.com/products/1422/Terminals---Connectors/) and Heat Shrink Tubing: (http://www.waytekwire.com/products/1381/Tubing/). Waytek has all the right tools in their tool pages, but you will blanch at the prices. I just use a GB one that looks almost identical to this one: http://www.waytekwire.com/item/466/ALL-IN-ONE-CRIMPER/ I got mine from Menards or HomeDespot for about 3X the price. The color coded spots on it will do the plastic shelled terminals, and the half moon ones work for the plain shell less terminals. For a heat gun to shrink the heat shrink tubing, any one will do. I use one made for shrinking the coverings for RC model aircraft. It's a real cheapie that MonoKote still sells 30 years later.

Crimping tool. Not the one I have, but similar: http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-Solderless- ... mping+tool My handle grips look different.
Image
On this tool, the color coded crimping spots are opposite the hinge joint from the handle and are marked with dots of paint. They color code to the colors of the terminals in the kit. On the handle side of the hinge point there are three crimping spots that have a half circle on one side, and a point that presses into the middle of them on the other. Those are the ones I use for the non-insulated terminals. The terminal kit would be good for throwing in for emergency repairs on the road. Dump the terminals into a heavy weight zip-lock bag to get rid of the space taken up by the plastic box. I prefer terminals made by 3M or MOLEX. They are both engineered well, and not cheap ripoffs.

Wire stripping. Get one like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-11063 ... 873&sr=1-5
Image
I have two from RadioShack and one from GB. The GB one is better and has needed less readjustment over the years. I don't think I spent over $25 on any of them.

If you need to crimp battery wires, then a crimper like this is the cheap way: http://www.amazon.com/Forney-57637-Lug- ... mping+tool You use a hammer to provide the crushing force. I usually use a few strikes and work my way up to tightly crimped. A proper large wire crimper can easily be 20 to 30 times as expensive.

Heat shrink tubing. I use two types, Polyolefin plain, and Polyolefin adhesive lined. I use the adhesive lined stuff for most connections to waterproof them. The plain I use for insulating shields for female quick connect terminals and for connections that may be pulled apart later. I also usually get the highest shrink ratio available. (http://www.waytekwire.com/products/1381/Tubing/&Material=Polyolefin&Length=48--Stick).

Waytek isn't the cheapest, and has a minimum order size, but with a few different crimp sizes and types, a crimper, some heat shrink sticks, and possibly some wire you may be over the minimum order size.

On crimp terminal style. My absolute favorite are the style with the ears that are folded in by the crimper. They look like this: Image They do require a proper crimp tool for use. Also they are the style used in most multi pole connectors. If you want to use multi pole connectors, get the right terminals and crimper for the type you use. For TD/TTT I don't see much use for them, except for Anderson Power Pole connectors. I've been using waterproof Delphi Metri-pack connectors for farm machinery use. Some trailer lights have connectors for terminals to connect right up to them. They should tell you which series of terminals connect to the terminals on their lights.
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Re: soldering iron

Postby Dale M. » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:35 pm

Crimp is the only way.... DO NOT GET one of those $4.99 ones at local auto parts or hardware store.... Spend $30-50 and get quality unit that has interchangeable dies and will crimp insulated and un-insulated connectors of all popular sizes...

These are pretty much junk.. They are cause for crimp connections having such a bad name...

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These are what you want.... Ratcheting type with changeable dies...

Image

Good application of dielectric grease to wire before inserting it into connector and crimping will make a more reliable connection and less suitable to corrosion ( keeps the oxygen out) ...

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And as mentioned above the quality of the connector makes big difference in its reliability...

I try to stay away from auto parts connectors (most made in china) and go with more commercial level connectors like CAROL brand or those found at places like Del City or Waytek...

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Re: soldering iron

Postby Vindi_andy » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:18 am

Dale M. wrote:These are pretty much junk.. They are cause for crimp connections having such a bad name...

Image

Dale


As dale says please :worship: do not use this style of crimp tool. They are reliant on the operators grip strength to make the crimp and as we all know this varies from person to person but also how long you have been using the tool that day. Operator fatigue plays a big part in the quality of the crimp.

With the ratchet style the quality of the crimp is repeatable as when you start to close the handles the ratchet engages and wont release until the crimp is fully made and it is the same every time.

I work for a manufacturer of industrial connection products and one of the issures we regularly get on the technical desk is failing crimps. My first question is "what tool are you using" the second is "when was it last checked?" and third question is "what crimps are you using?" These three factors have a major impact on the quality of the connection.

It just so happens that I have access to the samples cupboard so guess where my tools and crimps will be coming from :lol:
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Re: soldering iron

Postby hmikey » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:33 am

Hi: Thank you everyone. I feel much better armed to deal with my wiring. Good advise all around. I appreciate it. Time for me to go shopping.
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Re: soldering iron

Postby Dale M. » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:23 am

Vindi_andy wrote:
Dale M. wrote:These are pretty much junk.. They are cause for crimp connections having such a bad name...

Image

Dale


As dale says please :worship: do not use this style of crimp tool. They are reliant on the operators grip strength to make the crimp and as we all know this varies from person to person but also how long you have been using the tool that day. Operator fatigue plays a big part in the quality of the crimp.

With the ratchet style the quality of the crimp is repeatable as when you start to close the handles the ratchet engages and wont release until the crimp is fully made and it is the same every time.

I work for a manufacturer of industrial connection products and one of the issures we regularly get on the technical desk is failing crimps. My first question is "what tool are you using" the second is "when was it last checked?" and third question is "what crimps are you using?" These three factors have a major impact on the quality of the connection.

It just so happens that I have access to the samples cupboard so guess where my tools and crimps will be coming from :lol:


Vindy_andy...

Like car avatar in your profile... Is it a variant off Lotus 7 design....

Image

I have fun car too.....

Image

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Re: soldering iron

Postby Vindi_andy » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:41 am

Dale that looks like a jiminy buggy

Yes mine is a 7 variant however its a 4 seater and there are only 3 that I am aware of that are legally and with the combination of the boot and the topbox you see in the avatar we can get enough stuff in it to camp in relative comfort.

Visit my website for more info

https://sites.google.com/site/lawsvindicatorfamily/

Sorry for the thread Hijack
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How true :)
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Re: soldering iron

Postby H.A. » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:38 am

hmikey wrote:I know there are some connections in my wiring that must be soldered. What should I look for when shopping for a soldering iron / kit? I'd like to solder as many connections as I can. Mike. Its not a very complicated wiring job.


One option thats handy is a 12 volt soldering iron. Several manufacturers there are, Mostly in the 30watt range.
The couple I have are about 150 watt, Dont remember the brand name, but they are a professional heavyduty model.
Originally part of a Army toolkit.
I keep one in the trailer as its handy for roadside repairs and such.

The other handy option is one of the butane soldering irons from Weller or others.
In general I dont solder anything unless its some kind of repair, or I need to make a low profile splice what must be slid back down a hole or such.
Most everything else gets connected by 'euro style terminals or onto DIN-rail terminals.
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Re: soldering iron

Postby CarlLaFong » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:58 pm

Everything that has been written about crimping is true. Having said that, I have been soldering all my connections on many, many bikes and cars for 50 years. I've never had an issue with a soldered connection. Maybe God protects the ignorant, I dunno??? :worship:
I use the regular insulated crimp connectors because they are easier to come by. I heat the plastic insulator with the gun and slip it off. I then crimp it on the wire and solder it. A bit of shrink tube and Bob's yer uncle. If the harness is supported, vibration and movement shouldn't be a problem. I guess my aversion to crimp connectors was caused by exactly what was stated in previous posts. I have 3 or 4 pairs of those cheepy pliers and I use parts store connectors.I always had problems with the wire pulling out or a poor connection. I have always bought the best tool that I could afford, so I don't know why I tolerate those crummy pliers
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Re: soldering iron

Postby bobhenry » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:25 pm

Being a belt and suspenders kinda guy I am in your camp Carl but I tin the stranded wires 1st then add an uninsulated crimp and over solder. If there are several in a small area I will slide on some shrink tube before making the connection then slide it into place and hit it with a heat gun.

Overkill I am sure but each connection take about 45 seconds and should out live me.
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