Harbor freight trailer will break and crack over time. ?????

[parnold]

the most appropriate to bring back into service would be the manure spreader...............

[/quote]

[CJflyer]

Isn't there a maximum length to threads, or should I say depth?

[Arne]

If you have 48" of tongue sticking out, as many do, running the tongue back under the trailer just 20-24" is just not enough.... 48 in front should have 48 in back to the 3rd x member, not 24 to the 2nd x member..

My current t/d has a 26" tongue in front of the frame and is A shaped tongue.. the 2 pieces of the tongue run back 40" to the sides of the trailer which is much more rigid than running it down the middle to an x member... The sides of the trailer become part of the tongue support..

I consider this A tongue to be far superior to the traditional straight tongue even if triangulated, as it is really 2 full length tongues and much stronger.

[boxcar]

Never called anyone an idiot!!!!!! Safe driving habits equates to safe trailers. Your not a safe driver if your equipment is not as safe as it can possibly beeeeeeee.
Look Stoping distance is everything. So here is a challenge for everyone / Load your trailer and tow rig as you normaly do for an average trip. Now go find an empty parking lot (a large one)
Disconect your trailer from your rig. Now do a braking test run your car or truck up to 30mph and then stop as fast as you can. Mark the distance.
Do this same test with your trailer hooked up. You will be surprized.... I challenge you all, This could be fun , But be honest . Post your data on this site on a new thread.
Some states (ODOT) and a fuew others have started using stoping distance as a requirement for brakes on trailers.
This basicly takes all the loop holes out of the equasion. Trust me the way our government is going this may becomb the case in all states.
To me if I'm going to go to all the trouble to build a trailer, teardrop or tandem. I'm going to build it so that it will pass all requiremenst for all 50 states. Lets face it if you build to TxDOTs requirements don't leave the state. According to TxDOT standards (as quoted) you can tow a 4000lb trailer witha Yougo and be leagle (NOT TRUE) The requirements listed are guidelines only The BASIC RULE still aplies in all 50 states. (IF YOU ARE OVERLOADED YOU ARE NOT LEAGLE)
I'm not a perfectionest or a preacher (although it may seem that way)
I AM A master fabricator with a degree in engineering.And a parrent. So safty is not something I will budge on. I am in the buisness of building the verry things we on this website all love.( TOYS) I have bin for better than 30 years. And most importantly I am not trying to sell you anything.
If you have read this entire thread. I at no time have sed that the H/F trailer is a bad unit for it's designed use. In fact I have owned one (as I mentioned in my first or second response) but at 1700lb max load it may be a little light for most t/ds loaded. Especialy if your tow rig weighs less than 3800lbs because it can not be equiped with brakes as deliverd...
And at 1/3rd the weight of your tow rig you can not safly stop it . Simple math ... If you would like to prove me wrong go do the aformentioned test and prove me wrong.....Boxcar...ps: Larwyn don't get so upset.
I would have spoken up to annyone whos idea of good advice is to NOT air on the side of caution. I just don't get your point man...I'v looked arround Very fuew if any RV trailer manufacturers share your view on brakes, Yes even the T/D manufacturers...seem to like to equip there trailers with brakes if they are rated over 1500lbs. I'm sory you had a bad expierience whith the "safty guy" at one of your places of employment
It seems to have efected you for life. [img]:cry:[/img] NOW IF WE ARE DONE BEING NASTY TO ONE AND OTHER CAN WE GET BACK TO THE ISSUE WITH OUT ALL THE INUENDO AND POOP TALK???????http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-trailer-weight-tt.shtml[img]This%20is%20a%20great%20site%20.%20it%20will%20actualy%20do%20all%20the%20math%20for%20you...[/img]

[artwebb]

Vintage is a good word .Can I use that from now on? [img]:thinking:[/img]

Feel free, but you can't use Mr. Vintage! I earned that nickname fair and square so it's mine!

[artwebb]

Never called anyone an idiot!!!!!! Safe driving habits equates to safe trailers. Your not a safe driver if your equipment is not as safe as it can possibly beeeeeeee.
Look Stoping distance is everything. So here is a challenge for everyone / Load your trailer and tow rig as you normaly do for an average trip. Now go find an empty parking lot (a large one)
Disconect your trailer from your rig. Now do a braking test run your car or truck up to 30mph and then stop as fast as you can. Mark the distance.
Do this same test with your trailer hooked up. You will be surprized.... I challenge you all, This could be fun , But be honest . Post your data on this site on a new thread.
Some states (ODOT) and a fuew others have started using stoping distance as a requirement for brakes on trailers.
This basicly takes all the loop holes out of the equasion. Trust me the way our government is going this may becomb the case in all states.
To me if I'm going to go to all the trouble to build a trailer, teardrop or tandem. I'm going to build it so that it will pass all requiremenst for all 50 states. Lets face it if you build to TEXDOTS requirements don't leave the state. According to TEXDOT standards (as quoted) you can tow a 4000lb trailer witha Yougo and be leagle (NOT TRUE) The requirements listed are guidelines only The BASIC RULE still aplies in all 50 states.
I'm not a perfectionest or a preacher (although it may seem that way)
I AM A master fabricator with a degree in engineering.And a parrent. I am in the buisness of building the verry things we on this website all love. I have bin for better than 30 years. And most importantly I am not trying to sell you anything.
If you have read this entire thread. I at no time have sed that the H/F trailer is a bad unit for it's designed use. In fact I have owned one (as I mentioned in my first or second response) but at 1700lb max load it may be a little light for most t/ds loaded. Especialy if your tow rig weighs less than 3800lbs because it can not be equiped with brakes as deliverd...
And at 1/3rd the weight of your tow rig you can not safly stop it . Simple math ... If you would like to prove me wrong go do the aformentioned test and prove me wrong.....Boxcar

Well, I've towed a car hauler with a full size car on it with a Chevy Big Ten pickup. I know the car and trailer outweighed the truck, and I was definitely over loaded but had no option of a trailer brake on the rented trailer.
I ran twenty under in the slow lane with the flashers going, but honestly the truck barely noticed the load, I just slowed down because I felt more comfortable with my stopping distance that way, and started braking much sooner than I would have otherwise.
I would have preferred having trailer brakes but I was not as unsafe as some I see on the highway doing 90 with their big fancy rigs. Slower, more carefull driving is safer than acting like you have a sports car because you have more safety equipment.
I didn't do any instrumented tests, but I know I could've stopped that trailer from 40 faster than the same load with trailer brakes from the 70 to 80 that everyone else was traveling on that road (hence the emergency flashers) so I believe I was probably the safest vehicle on that road that day

[boxcar]

Yea sounds like you probly were.....boxcar [img]:lol:[/img]

[madjack]

...after reading thru all these posts, I'll say a word or two.............
a properly assembled HF trailer is far superior to a poorly constructed custom frame.....
the weakest part (IMO) of a HF trailer is the axle/wheel/tire combo...tall tires rock and short ones su.....errrrrrrr, well ya know what I mean........
a properly built TD forms a torsion box and as such needs very little actual frame under it...in the case of a HF trailer with a TD...especially a TD with the side walls covering and connected to the frame...it will never break(the trailer rails) unless something truly catastrophic occurs and then you have other additional problems.........
SITUATIONAL AWARENESS is the single most important component of driving/towing/living safely...as my ol' daddy told me a million times, "the roads are full of damn fool idiots...don't you be one as well!!!!"
the above is just the start and very general in nature.....................
madjack

[2bits]

All Harbor Freight stuff is cheap so you don't want to ever push the envelope on them, and you must maintain them.

Teardrops don't typically push the envelope on them except for bearings and modifications.

Repack your wheel bearings, and run the tongue back to the axle if you decide to extend it, and yes the frames are thin chinese C channel, but alot of people like to go trippin out just because it isn't the Tim Taylor Binford brand ruff ruff tough strong stuff that you don't need anyway. Harbor freight frames are cheap and pretty flimsy, but at the same time they WORK as long as you work within their operating limits... I will build my next teardrop using angle instead of square tube for this same reason. The original Cubs were made this way and lasted until TODAY!

I custom built my frame because I have a custom designed frame and wanted a torsion axle and I have a friend who welded it for me for free

[boxcar]

Mad jack I agree a properly assembled H/F trailer is supireor to a "poorly built custom. I have seen this comparrison before. You are asuming that we are talking about POORLY built custom trailers. The same could be sed for a poorly assembled H/F or Teardrop for that matter. We should be comparing apples to apples here. Don't you think? And I don't nesisairaly agree whith you on the weekest point on the trailer. 8" wheels are a no brainer . I realy dont see alot of issues whith the 12s. Bearings I will give you....and the axle is scetchy. I have more distrust with the non graded bolts suplyed wiith the kit.
and the fact that the trailer is all stamped channel. I have owned one of these trailers and found it to be EXTREAMLY flexable.But it was a good little hauler for light loads.
To rely on the cab to do the frames work is not a bad idea if it is truly designed to do that job.
By the way I think your looking for the phrase BOX BEAM not tortion box , a tortion box allows a certain ammount of tortional movement (twist)
not good for wooden boxes...
The idea of a full frame trailer isn't nesisairaly only to haul the load but also to suport the entire load eavenly.
( no saggy floors) And by using a stronger trailer you may lighten the cab
1/4" ply and foam rather than 1/2 or 3/4" ply . It just makes moor sence to me to build a strong foundation and a lighter coach (low center of gravity) Than to compinsate for a week frame with the coach. Having sed all this
I can see the beuty of having an easy to assemble pre maid trailer to start a build with. Lets face it not everyone owns the equipment to fab up a trailer from scratch. and for most on road teardrops the H/F trailer is surly a desent starting point. I still recomend brakes on the trailer though and at $365 for the trailer and then $250 more for a proper axle with brakes. Then a set of fenders that wont fall off.And if you fallow posted advice , new bearings and possibly stiffen the toungue and maybe add gas shocks. You end up very close to the price of having a custom trailer built by a pro with brakes That is designed to cary the cab....and is built entirely from box tube. As you have undoubtibly seen I am rather a safty freak ( its the engineer in me) and I do tend to over build my chassis. But my coach empty weighs in at 200lbs my chassis goes 600 for a dry weight of 800. Loaded for the trail it goes anywhere from 1200-1500 depending on the trip. By the way my chassis is a very good example of a tortion box.....The cab actualy floats on cushoned mounts. I hope you guys can figure out my crudy spelling I guess I should get a spell checker [img]:?[/img]Boxcar...


By the way I just saw your trike . Very very nice. And I must say an unusual tow rig. [img]:applause:[/img]

[starleen2]

Nice conversion you got there Boxcar BYTW - what size brakes are ya' running there? Didn't see any on the build thread.

[Larwyn]

Boxcar,

In common everyday woodworking speak, a torsion box is a component made up of two skins separated by a framework. It is lightweight, rigid and resistant to twisting, sagging and bowing.

This picture represents a the components of a workbench employing what woodworkers call torsion box construction. I could not find any other definitions for torsion box on the web.



While a box beam is a defined as a hollow beam made of of boards;



The insulated floor of my teardrop is a torsion box. The insulated roof/ceiling of my teardrop is also a torsion box. Should I mention that the walls are also a torsion boxes? The roof, walls and floor combine to make up a torsion box. So with an insulated teardrop, I have a torsion box made up of torsion boxes. There is not a box beam in the mix as far as I can see.

By the way, I never said that it was legal to tow a trailer that exceeds the towing weight limits of the tow vehicle. You and another poster both made a blanket statement that it is illegal to tow a trailer over 1500 pounds without trailer brakes. That is true for California, but most of us on this forum do not live in California. If posting legal weight limits to prove your point is so great, then why is it irrelevant for me to post the limits for the other 49 states?

Since you were compelled to mention your engineering degree, I cannot help but mention that those of us who have been marking up engineer's drawings for the last 40 years are not impressed by the mere existence of a degree. That degree indicates that you have been presented with the training and hopefully retained some knowledge, it in no way indicates a superior level of intelligence or infallibility. This is not meant in a derogatory manner.

To set the record straight on this matter. I have no problem with putting together a safe camping rig. I use a half ton pickup with an approximately 1000 pound trailer (no trailer brakes). My issue was with the use of misinformation to promote a worth while cause (or any cause for that matter). Personally I do not care if you put air brakes on your lawn chair. For all I know California might require them........

[boxcar]

Yes larwyn That is a tortion box!!! Now add walls and a roof and it is no longer a tortion box But a box beam. Your doors and rear hatch would not continue to operate if it was a tortion box. You do understand wat the word tortion meens . The walls and roof take all the tortion out of the equasion.eaven if they are also tortion boxes. 1+1=2 not 1 you are taking tortion boxes and creating something entirely diferent by fastening them together. Guess I did remember something.....
Look if you want to atack my profesion. Fine, But you better get to know me personaly before you atack me through insinuation. I at no time found fault with your list of state dot standards . You seem to think that theay are the Law. On the contrairy, You will find them in no law books, they are guide lines , Minimum requirements . Some states seem to think everyone is driving a one ton truck. We all know that is not the case.
And personaly I prefur top exceed all minimum requirements when building anything.
Generaly speaking when someone resorts to mud slinging to bolster an argument ( your comments on engineers) it's because thay don't have a good argument in the first place.
I deal with this with my kid all the time . Didn't expect it here though.
If you feel the need to continue this discusion Larwyn lets start a new thread so others won't have to put up with us , and I'd be more than hapy to continue this discusion with you.....Boxcar

[Larwyn]

Yes larwyn That is a tortion box!!! Now add walls and a roof and it is no longer a tortion box But a box beam.Your doors and rear hatch would not continue to operate if it was tortional. The walls and roof take all the tortion out of the equasion. Guess I did remember something.....
Look if you want to atack my profesion. Fine, But you better get to know me personaly before you atack me through insinuation.
Generaly speaking when someone resorts to mud slinging to bolster an argument it's because thay don't have a good argument in the first place.
I deal with this with my kid all the time . Didn't expect it here though.
If you feel the need to continue this discusion Larwyn lets start a new thread so others won't have to put up with us , and I'd be more than hapy to continue this discusion with you.....Boxcar

No need to continue, you have been quite successful in proving my point many times over.

[boxcar]

Re read my post .... I wasent through. Add some curves to your box beam drawing and walla its a cutaway of your tear.Thanks for the help.....Boxcar [img]:thumbsup:[/img]
And in responce to an earlyer p/o i'm running 7" brakes due to the total weight of the projected load. I may opt for tens in the future havevnt desided yet.The axle in showing in the build thread is my builder axle, I use it to keep the unit light and low while constructing the trailer It Is AN H/F axle, The last remnant of my H/F trailer .Thanks for the nice words .....