The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

[KCStudly]

Not sure about that but it handled my little trim router just fine, and Karl was using it with a DA sander, too.

[OP827]

Not sure about that but it handled my little trim router just fine, and Karl was using it with a DA sander, too.

All hand tools and small shop tools will be fine with this setup as they require much smaller current than table saws or planers. If you try this with a 110V 1.5HP+ table saw you'll know what I mean.

[Atomic77]

Not sure about that but it handled my little trim router just fine, and Karl was using it with a DA sander, too.

All hand tools and small shop tools will be fine with this setup as they require much smaller current than table saws or planers. If you try this with a 110V 1.5HP+ table saw you'll know what I mean.

Yep...once in a while it will throw a breaker if the table saw pinches...

[Fred Trout]

Will that not overload the curcuit with 12A of Vacuum and then 1.5HP table saw?

A couple of reviews mentioned issues with larger motors. The plug is rated for 15 amps max -- so depends on the table saw & vacuum device total amp draw. Home-shop style tools and many shop vacs should work fine but it would be pretty easy to exceed the rated Amperage - it's a $33 device. When you see the packing / duct tape used to hook a vac hose to a hand tool, a professional setup does not come to mind

One would expect professional tools to work with professional dust collection solutions with professional prices to match - more like this base vacuum station:

http://www.amazon.com/SHOP-FOX-W1727-Du ... hi&ie=UTF8

[tony.latham]

I e got my Dewalt sliding bevel saw and small shop vac hooked to one of those and have never had it pop a breaker. Works well.

[OP827]

KC,
Are you using two linear actuators for the hatch lift? Did you think of syncronizing them? Reason I am asking is that I need to figure out how to make my 2-4 actuators work in sync, cause if they don't, it could be potentially a self-destructive lifting action. It is the first time I am considering linear actuators, no experince there. In your design case too, if one actuator fails to move when other does move, there might be some potential self-damage.. Did you think of it? I looked up some current controllers, but could not yet find what I think I need.

[KCStudly]

KC, Are you using two linear actuators for the hatch lift? Did you think of (synchronizing) them?

Great question! Yes, I am using two, and synchronizing them has been a big question in my mind. I am very concerned that a failure or dissimilar action could quite realistically do significant damage.

So it is with great interest that I welcome you to share any information that you may come across; and feel free to post what you learn or a link to it here!

I appreciate you mentioning it, as it may just prompt me to ask the electrical technician at my day job how he would approach the situation. It shouldn't be hard to find him, as he and I share an office!

The only thing I did toward the build tonight was to haul all of my build supplies, the ones I did not want to freeze, back up to the loft; a big tote bag, a 2x2 box full, and a gallon of poly.

The rest of the late afternoon/early evening was spent shuffling around doing a couple of family household tasks (one at my mom's and one at my place). I was very grateful to have Karl's assistance with both as they were what I will refer to as, "much easier with two man jobs".

[OP827]

Funny you mentioned electrical in your office. My daugther and her boyfriend are electronics engineering students so I will use that connection to find solution .
Maybe I will source something ready to use, but if not, then I am thinking of a simple logical circuit combined with power mosfet. It is basically a amperage measuring circuit that feeds a 4 channel (actuators number) "AND" Gate chip that will produce "1" if all 4 actuators have current presence and in case of all or any of the actuator curcuits are lacking current then the gate will go to "0" . The 4 channel AN Gate controls a power mosfet(s) to cut the power for all actuators and LED indicator/alarm will go "on" to show which actuator channel did not have the current feed so it can be checked. Just an idea so far. There could be some sort of starters or other electrical relay devices that fulfill such similar function to cut power for all channels in case sof the channels/curcuit has current failure, there must be something like that out there..
This siimple safeguard principle should take care of major danger of gross difference in actuators action. as far as difference in individual speed concerned, I do not think it would be an issue. Would appreciate if you could discuss the idea with your electical engineer and advise. When I discuss the idea with my connection, i'll repoprt as well. Cheers

[KCStudly]

Unfortunately the source for my actuators is no longer in the business, so there will be no ready made solution, unless another mfg's device is compatible. (The OEM solutions that I looked at last night specify that their synchronizing device must be used with their specific actuators, but I wonder if that is just for plug-and-play compatibility with their particular wire connectors, or if there is something more specific... like compatibility with a specific encoder or current target range.) To my advantage, giving another option, I believe mine are equipped with position indication (extra pigtails indicate); so in theory I could monitor real time position and match throws, in lieu of the less accurate current monitoring. I had not thought ahead enough to run extra wires for a control loop and it was already a real pain getting the fat power leads thru the too small wire ways. (They were originally spec'd for a valve throttling application.)

Another feature I would like to have, or incorporate is the ability to push the rocker switch once (momentary) and have the hatch go all the way to open or closed without having to stand there and hold the switch. It appears that some of the OEM boxes will do that.

More to come on the subject.

[OP827]

My actuators do not have built-in potentiometer of other type of sensor for positioning feedback, but they have built-in end switches which means that I can just flip the normal rocker reversable switch in on position w/o any controller and they will stop once the full length is extended or retracted.

Did you try your actuators just with a battery connected, do they stop automatically when extended fully? if they do, then your actuators also have the built-in end switches. I that case you do not really need the kind of controller you mentioned, end switches and normal reversable switch would do the job.

But as I said before, some controller to make sure they all extending at the same time is a must to avoid damages.

In your case you probably can control the position by the feedback feature just by a slide or turn potentiometer. I say that because I came across some youtube video where Arduino controller would position an actuator exactly where such control potentiometer is positioned. But that was for a sinlge actuator, not a pair. Schematics for actuator pair would have the same idea, but be different in detail. In this application, close to equal or equal speed (if possible) is important to avoid damage.

More to come on the subject.

[KCStudly]

Mine do seem to stop driving at the limits, so I assume built in limit stop switches.

My chunker buddies include a math software expert who has been fiddling with Arduino as a hobby for a couple of years now, and at least one master of EE (Hi Dave!). I suppose there is an outside chance that I could get one or both of them interested in helping move us toward a home brewed solution. Not sure if that is an effective use of anybodies time, but it would certainly exercise my gray cells to dig into this.

[OP827]

Mine do seem to stop driving at the limits, so I assume built in limit stop switches.

- to make sure you could do a check, by a very simple method, that there are no little sparks after you disconnect and connect the battery again after it stopped, but without changing the polarity. That is a "sparky" method while a tester is not around. BTW I would be surprised if not all 12V linear actuators have built-in end switches, simply from the vendor's warranty protection perspective.

My chunker buddies include a math software expert who has been fiddling with Arduino as a hobby for a couple of years now, and at least one master of EE (Hi Dave!). I suppose there is an outside chance that I could get one or both of them interested in helping move us toward a home brewed solution. Not sure if that is an effective use of anybodies time, but it would certainly exercise my gray cells to dig into this.

- Looks like you have more than enough brain capacity at hand, I will be eagerly waiting for more information

[KCStudly]

It looks like this is the same spec sheet that was formerly available from Spal, for my 10 inch throw actuators, probably contract label from the OEM for their brand, and now offered by Creative Werks.

This robotics website appears to have a ready made controller that will do what I want (…and is probably the same unit found on other branded sites).

Here is the instruction pamphlet with diagram. Unfortunately the control pod is not weather proof, but it looks like I can use my marine rocker switch as the optional control input.

Others may be interested in LearnRobotGeek.com Arduino DIY controller for single actuator, but that won't work for my app. I'm sure there must also be synchronizer versions out there, but I didn't bother to continue looking.

In other news it seems that I have not been very productive lately, and I would like to kick it into gear and get going like the “good old days”.

Take this evening for example. I worked later than usual at the day job; did my usual after punch out wind down checking in on the forum; got to Mecca at about 5:30pm; gabbed with Karl for maybe 45 min; worked for another hour trying to dry fit the middle foam panel (first layer) on the hatch using tape (failed tape 101 miserably… the blue tape doesn’t hold the load and, with no dispenser, I fumbled around with the packing tape) intermingled with about 15min helping Karl maneuver a twin axle dump truck into the shop for some fab work.

Also, I picked up a mount for the camera and have been experimenting with my new 256GB HD SD card, taking action vids from the Ford (learning the ins and outs so that I can document the trip on the Magruder) and trying out some construction scenes so I am ready when the grand lowering happens. Nothing worthy yet, just diddling. Here is the mount I got from Best Buy.



The flex stem and clamp have the std. 1/4-20 thread, and a Go Pro adapter was included (the 1/4-20 female to 3-wing hinge like dealie-o). When I mentioned that my camera was not a Go Pro the sales rep at the store pulled the last piece (2-wing to male 1/4-20 with thumb wheel lock) from a drawer at their kiosk and said it was gratis. Apparently the Go Pro mounts use this proprietary mount with a special bolt that acts like a hinge and clamps the leaves of the hinge (the wings) all in one. Turns out to be a standard 5mm metric thread, so I grabbed a 5mm socket head cylindrical cap screw, trimmed it to length and added the little press-on thumb wheel adapter, providing another 2 degrees of freedom (tilt and pan).


Not having much luck with the tape, I pinned the bottom of the middle panel to the top of the lower panels using bamboo skewers.



By comparison, the tape at the top was marginal at best.


Because the skewers were at such an acute angle I was able to lay the stretcher down over them without drama. However, for some reason I had a hard time getting the clamps to toe onto the small lip of the bumper, as before. Decided I needed to get a couple more 2x3’s to use as a temporary cleat under the bumper. Hit the HW store on the way home so I won’t forget them tomorrow.

As Sheddie suggested, the idea of side clearance lights, and even fender marker lights is growing on me, and I am formulating a scheme that will allow me to add the wire ways (hopefully) with little drama, good serviceability, and relative ease of fairing so that they don’t end up projecting thru the outer canvas skin.

[OP827]

KC,

I could be missing something about this LA controler, but I could not find in these documents that this controller will work for your applicaiton as to syncronize two actuators to avoid damage.
The installation instruction says:
"This unit features 3 user programmable presets that are easily accessed via the
push-button display to precisely control 1 or 2 actuators individually or in sequence.
Linear acturators can be used to open trunks, hoods, etc. "
It has programable features, but do you really need to set end points for the hatch?

You are making progress on the build, good work there.

[KCStudly]

I had that impression at first, too, but if you look at how the .pdf pages are labelled, for a stapled folded pamphlet, and carefully read the section for single/dual operation, I think it is covered. True, they don't explicitly state synchronized operation, so I would for sure confirm that when I speak to a human before ordering. As well as working out what I need for the harnesses (only one actuator and one controller harness is included).

Also, it does not state it, but I don't think that you need to set any of the presets, I believe those are an optional feature and it will just default to the internal stops without these (again, will inquire). If not, it would be easy enough to set it up with one preset for closed and another for open. I'll try to call tomorrow after work and will post what I find out.

Thanks again for prompting me to look into this whole aspect of my build in more detail. It is true what they say, we don't know what we don't know!