Suggestions for free trailer frame

[couponjnp]

Hi all,

After lurking here for more than a year, I finally would like to roll the ball for first ever TD building. I got a free trailer when I bought my house (more than 2 years ago). The trailer was previously used as a utility triler with wooden box built onto it. I removed the wooden structures from the trailer to get close to the trailer frame. I am completely new with any trailer or TD related stuff. So, I wanted some expert opinion on this trailer frame I have. I have uploaded as many pictures as I can to have better understanding for the experts. So, here goes the pictures:

Trailer:


Wheel#1:



Wheel#2:



Trailer from back:


Actual trailer dimensions (actual measurement is 2x the number shown in pic):


Blurrey close-up of c-channel:


More extra features (1 on each corner):


Tongue:



That's it from trailer part. My requirements for the trailer is:
1. Build fomie with 6x9 floor area with torsion box floor (for more strength and lower weight).
2. Estimated loaded weight is less than 1000 lbs.

Now, I have already purchased wire cups, wheels and sanding discs for my drill and started to remove rust from some parts of the trailer. I have read here that many people used POR-15 for their frame and I would like to go with that route for my trailer as well. I would like to have suggestions on whether the frame in its existing condition will serve my purpose or not. And also what modifications/improvements I should do to make this frame usable for my future build.

Also, I have uploaded pictures of different level of cleaning using the wire cups. I would like to know what level of cleanliness is required to go with the POR-15 route. The images below show cleaned and not cleaned spots at different places on the frame. Here are the pictures:

Cleaned with wire cup:




Not cleaned:




Any suggestions are appreciated and thanks in advance to all.

Cheers,

JNP

[les45]

Looks like a good sturdy starting point for a build. I've seen people on the forum start with far less trailer and end up with a really nice job. You might need some extra cross bracing at the quarter points to support your floor but they could be made of wood. Check all your welds after you clean it up, especially where the tongue is fastened to the frame.
You can't beat the price. Good luck on your build.

[couponjnp]

Looks like a good sturdy starting point for a build. I've seen people on the forum start with far less trailer and end up with a really nice job. You might need some extra cross bracing at the quarter points to support your floor but they could be made of wood. Check all your welds after you clean it up, especially where the tongue is fastened to the frame.
You can't beat the price. Good luck on your build.

Thanks Larry,

Crossbars added to the modification/to do list.

JNP

[KCStudly]

That level of cleaning with the wire brush is fine. just be sure to wipe the whole thing down with solvent (lacquer thinner) and a rag to remove all of the dust particles. Any exposed portions of the POR15 should get their UV resistant top coat, and it is not at all a bad idea to top coat the whole thing.

I would go thru the bearings and seals so you know what you have and perhaps rebuild the spring packs (lots of info right here in this forum).

Check the tires for dry rot/age and load rating molded in the side.

I couldn't open/enlarge your pics directly (new box at work and haven't switched to Firefox yet); what are the perimeter dimensions?

Inspect your safety chains and coupler well to be sure that they are in good working order and not worn or damaged.

Welcome to the forum! You are off to a great start. Don't be afraid to ask anything, we all have different levels of knowledge in different fields and that is the beauty of the forum: collaboration.

[couponjnp]

Hi KC,

I highly appreciate your and others time and help for every newone here. I am following this forum especially fomies for more than a year now and highly respect everyone's help with lot of new ideas and suggestions they provide to new comer here. Being a big supporter of open source and freely sharing a knowledge to serve humanity, I really appreciate this forum. Anyway, back to the trailer stuff.

I have uploaded all the images in my gallery where you can view them larger. If not let me know, I will somehow manage to send them to you or anyone who might have same problem.

I will keep in mind about cleaning prior to POR-15 coating and UV protection after it.

Regarding bearings and axle, I don't know the rating or any thing about it as I got it sitting in my backyard when I bought my house. And also, I noticed, the axle is 1.5" square tube and not sure whether that will be strong enough or not.

For the wheel, I am definitely going to replace them as these seems like 8" or 9" tires (only 15" over-all diameter as seen in pics). I am thinking between 12" to 14" (extreme) as my usage will not be for off-road. The rating and other details for leaf springs are also not known so not sure whether they are better to replace with new one or rebuilding as discussed in some threads here.

The coupler looks like little bit twisted and welded onto 2.5" x 2.5" square tube tongue. May be worth cutting and replacing with new coupler and safety chains. Also after reading some threads here, I think I should also extend the tongue somewhat.

Hmm...can't think of any other details that might be helpful right now.

Thanks again.

JNP

[atahoekid]

KC did a real good job of covering the things you'll want to check before putting the trailer to use, but from what I see, the frame itself is in good shape. Some time spent scraping and painting will be a very good investment. I built mine from an old pop up frame and my C-channel isn't as beefy as yours and does fine. You're c-channel will be plenty sturdy.

Welcome to the club

[couponjnp]

Thanks Mel for your feedback. I appreciate it. I followed your build and unfortunate incidents as well. I wish you good luck for camping this season.

JNP

[KCStudly]

e-trailer.com may be able to help determine the axle rating based on your dimensions. These things are fairly standard.

Look closely at the markings molded into the side walls of your tires. They appear to be original. There should be some indication of the load rating (per tire). Barring any other labels or tags on the axle (most likely long gone) the tires will provide the best indication of the original load rating. Sometimes you can find a stamped load rating in the back sides of the rims, but these will usually be slightly higher than the tires, if you can find them at all. If the tires are marked "Not For Highway Use" or similar, I would upgrade.

Of course, if they are dry and cracked, cupped, worn, etc. they need to be replaced anyway.

The 4 lug small rims are limited in their load ratings, and that alone can give you an idea if you look at new equivalents (I don't remember what it is for the little stuff off the top of my head).

[couponjnp]

Thanks again KC. Off to e trailer.com for more details.

JNP

[couponjnp]

Hi all,

Small update and couple questions. I separated axle and springs from the frame. Also spearated tires, hub, whatever leftover bearing parts. I had to cut pretty much all the bolts present in this process (except spindle nuts) and will replace with new ones when assembling back together. I will post pictures after I will get home today. Also cleaned the frame with wirebrush and bought POR-15 starter kit. Now, I have couple quick questions:

1. What is your suggestion on adding reinforcing to the existing tongue from both corners of the front cross-member? Also, whether 1x3 C-channel reinforcing is sufficient or I need 2.5"x2.5" square tube same as the existing?
2. My curvature of the cabin and tongue box will extend ~ 24" from the front cross-member. Shall I extend the existing tongue which is 40" long right now? If I do, then, will 12" extension be enough? or any sugguestions??

Are the questions clear to understand??

Thanks,

JNP

[Vedette]

Sorry Jas
I rarely check out this part of the Forum, but got here from your B.C. post.
Hate to rain on your parade (it is raining here on our Canada Day Parade as I type this) But! As I am in the Restoration Business and have been restoring cars for 46 years. I have a couple of suggestions for you!
Take back all of the sanding discs, cups, wire wheels etc. you bought for your drill and get your money back!
Don't waste your time cleaning your own frame!!!!
Sandblasting is the ONLY way to go. BEST MONEY YOU WILL SPEND! Not only is it BETTER It is also CHEAPER in the long run. A reputable Sandblaster will have your chassis to what we call a "White Blast" in about 30 to 35 minutes. At between $100.00 to $140/hr. $75.00 is a reasonable amount to pay for this job.
Big Commercial blasters are the way to go!
As for POR-15? Again don't waste your money! Cloverdale Paints make a brilliant product that you can spray directly on your Sandblasted chassis called "Clovaguard"
It is not expensive and a child can spray it. It is a two part epoxy that you purchase as a kit (I can tell you how to mix it for the best results) Again money saved in the long run and superior finish.
I also noted from your pictures the small wheels and tires......Go larger if you intend to tow long distances and at any kind of speed. 15" is ideal and a nice 55 0r 65 series radial tire will give you peace of mind so that you can enjoy your trip. 55's are readily available because so many people are restoring VW bugs.
Personally I would also spend the $243.00 and get a Dexter Rubber Ride (Torsion) axle with 5 on 4 1/2 bolt pattern.
Wish I lived closer and could help you out more.
Good Luck
and Good Roads
Brian & Sandi
PS
Knowledge is a powerful thing! And nobody can be an expert at "Everything".

[couponjnp]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your suggestions and guidance.

I should have posted it earlier to BC section and to group email. My bad . Because I already spent few days in cleaning and finished cleaning my frame. Also, I didn't know sandblasting could be that cheap . Well, another problem might be the towing as well because my old dying car doesn't have hitch and can barely tow anything . Anyway, I also started with 'marine clean' and the other liquid in POR starter kit.

Regarding the other axle parts, I have already finished POR 15 treatment on axle rod (1.5" x 1.5" square rod with 1" spindle). Disassembled the springs and currently in 'apple cider vinegar' for rust removal. I haven't tried removing tires from hub yet. Once I will do that, I will decide whether I should replace the hubs (4 on 4) or just the bearings, races, seals, spindle nuts and caps. Also, I was considering 12" tires with rim. I thought about replacing the whole axle with dexter torsion but cost of them are not affordable for me right now.

So, here are my questions:

1. Can the Cloverdale paint you mentioned, used now instead of the POR 15? Or shall finish POR treatment and then use the Cloverdale paint? So far, I only bought wire wheels, couple sandpapers and POR15 starter kit which is <40 $ dent so not too bad. However, time and quality might be a consideration. I certainly would like to hear from you about the paint scenario as I described all my current situation.

2. Regarding, the tire, hub and axle, which is the best type of bolt pattern to use in terms of cheaper and better tires? Similarly, you mentioned 15" tires, won't they look too big or overkill for my trailer because I think the axle capacity I have right now is 1250 lbs (just guessing from the matching parts available for it). Any suggestion as I am confused now.

3. Can I use the paint you suggested directly on my cleaned spring leaves before I assemble them again?

Any more suggestions are highly appreciated.

JNP

[debo0126]

Just posting to keep track of this trailer info.

[48Rob]

JNP,

As you asked for suggestions...

You have an old rusty frame, it has an old axle, rating unknown, with wheels too small, and a bent tongue that you want longer.
The frame needs reinforcement, and it needs expensive anti rust treatments.

Logical thinking would suggest that a new/custom frame would give you what you want, with less effort and quite possibly less expense?

I like re using old things to save money, and sometimes just to save them, but often the economy isn't there.
I realize you are deep into it already, and I'm not trying to be rude, just offering my thoughts.

I look forward to seeing how your build comes together!

Rob

PS. When deciding on larger tires/wheels, remember that what you have now will fit under the trailer bed, larger ones may require a wheel well/cutout of the floor.

[working on it]

If you're going to re-configure your tongue, consider extra welds/material for strength. After reading a thread about a tongue breaking on the road, I had a friend weld (I'm just a newbie welder; I wanted a pro) in a new 3" x 3" x .1875" (72" long total, 45" from cabin to ball center) tongue to three crossmembers on my trailer. I also had him weld in extra 2" x 3" x .125" tubing from front to rear, as an overlying spine and stiffener (also serves as a flooring support). Most people rely on the torsional box of the cabin to carry/spread the loads, even if the tongue is weak or connected to insufficient cross beams, but since I was at a point to do so, I decided on going very strong, since it was to be a single draw-bar tongue. I built too heavy, it seems (at least to meet my goal of <1000lbs, now at 1760lbs), but I don't worry about the tongue at all.

tongue strength overkill.jpg (85.01 KiB) Viewed 1418 times

To do it over, I would've had a longer tongue (60-66" instead of 45"), and welded on a tongue box platform, instead of creating one later with bolted-on angle stock. Now's the perfect time to add structure.