OverTheTopCargoTrailer 7 x 16

[bdosborn]

Everything works but fine , while sucking all that free juice the 63 amp din rail breaker -
Which limits the output from the outback 80 amp charge controller to the battery
Kicks off OUCH
It was only pulling 660 watts on the charge controller

I dunno, we need more info. What is the 63 amp breaker protecting? Can you sketch a wiring diagram or something?

Bruce

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Hey Mtdon

Are you sure your not reading the NEC upside down a little

The Outback 80 has A 200 page Manuel - everybody hates it.

MAYBE I'm reading it upside down, I found your section you talked about
Their own diagram has 80 amps in coming & 80 mps out breakers

I have 4 x 255 watt = 1020 total connected to a 15 amp incoming dc breaker.
It's 9 amps incoming at 133 volts dc.
Don't ask me why the outgoing for Outback 80 is a 63 amp breaker
It flipped off while running 670 watts after an hour or two
That's just the way it is. So you really can't ever get 1250 watts - full power per my actual experience so far
My older 4 x 210 panels also pulled 670 watts once.
Maybe at 24 volts or 48 volts it's different ??

They don't really make, sell or recommend a 80 amp din rail outgoing dc breaker
Now I saw they have a double din rail 80 amp - but that is brand new & has 2 switches ??


This is why we need Bruce ......

Only I can challenge his mind

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Bruce

The outgoing 63 dc amp breaker - limits what can go from charge controller to the battery



http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/controller%20pdf%20folder/OutBackFlexMax80.pdf




http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/controller%20pdf%20folder/flexmax60_manual.pdf

For those who like to read a lot

[bdosborn]

I can't figure out why there would be a 63 amp CB on the output, it's supposed to be good for 80 amps at 12V, with no deration. Can you post some pictures of the Outback and the CB that tripped? How about a wiring diagram for your whole system?

Bruce

[MtnDon]

The manual is 112 pages. I have two plus a PDF. Daunting, yes; but much more complete than what some others offer.
I have an FM80 and an FM60, a bunch of panels, batteries, etc. I am not a newb when it comes to solar PV, but I am not an engineer either.

The outgoing breaker does not have to be a 63 amp as you just said.

Don't ask me why the outgoing for Outback 80 is a 63 amp breaker

There are 80 amp breakers by Midnight Solar available, for example. I don't know what you have for a box/panel so can not say if it will fit. I have Airpax breakers, but I also have home crafted and non NEC, non UL approved enclosures. But I also have no inspections where I am located.


I don't know why your breaker tripped; was just trying to help as I have installed a few systems that work.

You are right in that 24, 36 and 48 volt systems are different; they can accept much larger wattage from the PV array.. It's one of the advantages of higher voltage battery banks. Maybe higher DC voltages are not the first thing someone might choose in a vehicle or trailer. But inverters, etc are readily available in 24 and 48 VDC and there are DC to DC voltage converters so we can have 12 VDC for things like lights, whatever.
FM80 FM60
12V 1250W 800W
24V 2500W 1600W
36V 3750W 2400W
48V 5000W 3200W
60V 6250W 4000W

It's 9 amps incoming at 133 volts dc.

9x133 = 1197 watts; within the specs.
But if the CC was putting out 14.5 volts that would be 82 amps, not accounting for CC losses.
A 63 amp breaker would like that much.
~~~~~~

Is the breaker in a hot enclosed space? If your breaker is a thermal-magnetic type they are sensitive to high temperatures. The amp rating goes down as the temperature exceeds STC.

~~~~~~

Just trying to help.
If you would rather I don't, say so.

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Hi Mtndon

Your 100% right , you got me busted coming & going

It was putting out 14.4 volts when the 63 kicked off. I keep forgetting all those
Stupid little calculations as I mostly do AC - & consider most 12 volt at 12 volt ...
Not the actual which may be up to 16 volts.
I'm looking at a Manuel that is 100 pages long - not 200 as I falsely claimed busted again.

I'll try to post some pictures here latter today to get you onto the same page....
So glad to hear that you have both a outback 60 & 80 flexmax.
I have some more pictures already on my blog as its easier to post there

http://overthetopcargotrailer.blogspot.com/

Many here offer well meant advice, but it is sometimes the blind leading the blind
Even 90% of the solar guys are in the dark - leading the blind

So now you & Bruce are tied for #1 on my project.
It's hard to find a nut case like me who has 2000 watts solar on a trailer
I hope your trailer won't get out of control like mine is.

Thanks Jerry

[MtnDon]

Hi Mtndon

It's hard to find a nut case like me who has 2000 watts solar on a trailer
I hope your trailer won't get out of control like mine is.

Thanks Jerry

2000 watts was more than I started with on our cabin. But that grew quickly.

We are planning a bare bones trailer. Trying to keep it simple.
That is the plan; we'll see how it executes.
Maybe 200 or so watts worth of PV.
Couple GC-2's for batteries unless I spring for AGM's
But I'm not that far along yet.
I've given myself till Feb or so to find something used before I go for a new one.

The hard part with PV on a roof is how to raise it a few inches for air circulation and be able to drop it for road travel. I would like to figure that out in a simple way. Sure love the pole mount type for stationary because of the open air and cooling for the panels.

[bdosborn]

That still doesn't add up, you said it was at 660 watts output, that's only 47 amps or so at 14.4v....
Bruce

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Hi Mtndon

so here is the link to my breaker / breakers..

http://www.ecodirect.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MNEPV63&gclid=CPPHqYzOw7kCFQ9dQgodeXYA2Q

e panel 8.JPG (111.59 KiB) Viewed 1969 times

1. left side 15 is AC breaker for my incoming shore power,
2. is a 15 amp DC breaker for the incoming 4 x 255 LG solar panels.
3. is the 63 amp DC - from the Outback to battery bank
4. is a 30 amp DC breaker to my trailer sub panel.

when I made this box 2 years ago I could not find a 80 amp DC ... only 63 amp DC

more to follow next posts coming

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Hey Bruce

All I can say is the the 63 amp breaker flipped off.... maybe something spiked for a second or so

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Hi Mtndon

Here are a few pictures of my panel, don't laugh I built this when I did not know diddle squat about solar
& when my system was only 840 watts 4 x 210 koycera panels

e panel 1.jpg (51.77 KiB) Viewed 1964 times

Here is the outside view for my cabinet.

e panel 2.jpg (62.07 KiB) Viewed 1964 times

Day time view of the cabinet , combines everything a/c and all d/c in one cabinet.

e panel 3.JPG (120.7 KiB) Viewed 1964 times

Night time view of the cabinet

on the very bottom left you can see my "black" negative bus bar >>>>>> right side is the "red" positive bus bar
on the top left side there is the Ground bas bar "Green"

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Here is my 300 watt PSW it also has its own disconnect
also its on a switch to shut it completely off.

e panel 4.JPG (128.74 KiB) Viewed 1962 times

the bottom red & black wire allow the inverter to be switched on / off
the yellow & white wire supply the 300 watts a/c power - connected by a 5 amp fuse.

e panel 5.JPG (98.93 KiB) Viewed 1962 times

Closer view of my DC bus bars & the Inverter disconnect

e panel 7.JPG (117.16 KiB) Viewed 1962 times

Closer view of my ac outlets & the green ground bus bar
and some dc breaker panel,
the blue box is for the florescent dc blue tube lights

Romantic night time lighting

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Hi Mtndon



We are planning a bare bones trailer. Trying to keep it simple.
That is the plan; we'll see how it executes.
Maybe 200 or so watts worth of PV.
Couple GC-2's for batteries unless I spring for AGM's
But I'm not that far along yet.
I've given myself till Feb or so to find something used before I go for a new one.

The hard part with PV on a roof is how to raise it a few inches for air circulation and be able to drop it for road travel. I would like to figure that out in a simple way. Sure love the pole mount type for stationary because of the open air and cooling for the panels.

Reference your new trailer : if you wanna know A-Z about trailers then read my rantings here &

http://overthetopcargotrailer.blogspot.com/

that mostly covers the almost bible on trailer building & what does not work
Lots of guys built equally GREAT teardrops - but thats in a different section
Mark519 and Gadget man are also must read on big 7 x 16 CT's
there are others But I forget ?
Generally with cargo trailers its better to buy new - then someones old stuff,
trailer quality goes from $2000 el cheap built in GA to DELUX $10,000 and even stackers up to $100k by Featherlite

Raising panels - YEA where were you ? when I need you.
its a problem because if less then 3" - 4" high they get super super hot even on a white roof.
I ordered some shocks - maybe raising them 4-6" on one side will works ok ?
What "old goat like me" wants to climb on the roof to manually raise panels ?
in my case mostly to keep trailer from turning into a sauna
so throw out your ideas on that subject

Cheers Jerry

P.S I still need to hook up my other 5 panels, but wanna split them into 3 solar systems,
and try out some different configurations, gotta run out to Post office now.
I don't like the idea of one monster system - with mega stuff & more sh** to go wrong.
catch you latter

I also need help to equalize batteries & put 2 charge controllers on one system so my a/c will run

[MtnDon]

Quick note, then after I get some odds n ends done I'll be back

The specs on that Midnight Solar breaker state that it operates independent of temperature. So I believe that means it is not an overheating situation that is causing it to trip. That leaves two choices; it is actually being overcurrented (probably not a real word but can be a real cause). Or there is a chance the breaker is defective or wearing out. Breakers are designed to fail by tripping early rather than not tripping at all.

My bet is overcurrent. If the system operates close to the maximum current output it would only take a small nudge to cause a trip. The trick may be finding a larger (80 amp) breaker that will fit the same space. Midnight still does not have an 80 in that series breaker.

Back later...

EDIT: there is also a small chance that the breaker can trip if the terminals are not torqued to specs. That can cause extra resistance in the circuit and lead to issues.

[bdosborn]

Silly question but, are your sure its an 80 and not a 60? Also, the Outback has a fan for cooling, did you run it with the cabinet door closed? Maybe it got too hot in there.
Bruce