side wall insulation

[numumzu]

But Im torn whether or not to insulate my side walls. If I do I will be sandwiching a sheet of blue insulation b/w an outside fiberglass sheet and an inside sheet of 1/8" plywood.


It would be MUCH easier to not insulate the sides and just use a regular sheet of plywood for the sides.

I will be insulating the floor and roof. My main goal is to be comfortable in summer (with AC). But I will use it in the winter, perhaps down to 20F.


Thoughts???

thanks!

[KCStudly]

This topic is a revolving door that comes around like clockwork.

If you are going to camp in very cold climates (such as below freezing) on a regular basis many people advise insulating the whole cabin for comfort. Others who camp in crowded parks say to insulate your walls for the simple fact that it makes it quieter to sleep inside. The people (like myself) who are pioneering methods of light weight (...or semi-light weight ) construction are using the insulation as a part of composite construction (as a structural aspect).

On the flip side you have people that question why you would bother to insulate your floor when you are going to put a foam mattress down (and those that have had condensation collect under their mattress because they did not insulate).

Some people are happy to snuggle into a subzero bag and rough it with no insulation. Some people will tell you that they seldom ever camp in really cold weather, or the temps are just low overnight (mountain camping) so it doesn't really bother them that much; wool cap, extra blanket, sleep with the dog, etc.

Some folks in warmer climates want insulation to help with cooling and A/C, while others have no problem with their A/C and plywood walls.

Plywood is fast, easy, and probably less expensive.

Insulated stick walls have the potential to be lighter, quieter, and more comfortable.

I'm with the foamies: 1-1/2 thk foam with minimal cedar framing; 5 mm Okoume marine ply inner skins; and, when I get to that stage, canvas, glue and paint outer skins. No trim, full canvas wrap.

[DMcCam]

We haven't camped without insulation in our walls so I can only give you our experience. Our cabin is very quiet even with the windows cracked open. We don't get interior condensation on the walls only on the windows. We've camped in 28 degree weather and were very warm (I had to take the comforter off for a while). In the summer heat the interior was barely warmer than ambient temp and cooled down quickly with our Fantastic fan. Our walls are 3/4" skeletonized plywood with rigid insulation sandwiched between two 1/8" Baltic birch layers for a 1" wall. The walls took about 30 hours to make plus waiting for glue to dry. Was it worth it? For us it was.

Happy building,

Dave

[kayakdlk]

One of the reasons I insulated my floor, walls and roof is it is quieter inside. Just a solid plywood box had a very "tinny box" sound to it. You can skip insulation, build a solid plywood wall and use carpet or other material (hull liner etc.) on the sides and reduce the effect, but I liked the wood look inside, so I went with the stress panel design of 1x2 and 1x3 pine frame, 3/4 insulation in voids and skinned inside an out with 1/8 Baltic Birch plywood. I may put carpet on the insides for the first 18" from floor bottom but I am waiting until I use it some before deciding. No one right or wrong way just go with what you feel works best for you.

Dan

[numumzu]

This topic is a revolving door that comes around like clockwork.

I'm a New-B

The people (like myself) who are pioneering methods of light weight (...or semi-light weight ) construction are using the insulation as a part of composite construction (as a structural aspect).

Plywood is fast, easy, and probably less expensive.
Insulated stick walls have the potential to be lighter, quieter, and more comfortable.

This is exactly where I am. The trade off vs. ease of construction.....

I'm with the foamies: 1-1/2 thk foam with minimal cedar framing; 5 mm Okoume marine ply inner skins; and, when I get to that stage, canvas, glue and paint outer skins. No trim, full canvas wrap.

So great!!! now I have a 3rd option.

dammit!

:-)

thanks for your "help". No answer, but I am on the right track.

[numumzu]

Our walls are 3/4" skeletonized plywood with rigid insulation sandwiched between two 1/8" Baltic birch layers for a 1" wall. The walls took about 30 hours to make plus waiting for glue to dry. Was it worth it? For us it was.

Happy building,

Dave

This is another thought I have had.....

options, options, options....



Thanks all.

[KCStudly]

Sorry numumzu. There is seldom going to be one easy answer to a question, and it wouldn't be right for me to be so presumptuous to make the decision for you. I have tried to give you a few more details and opinions that I have read, that maybe you have not, so that you can make a more informed decision for yourself.

I understand your frustration at this stage of the game and will take your comments in stride, hopefully in the good humored manner that it was intended(?). Sorry about the noob comment.

I had my original traditional design about 80/ct detailed in a computer model when I learned about the foamie way, and did nearly a complete redesign in order to "take advantage" of what I felt were worthy attributes. Grand total was about a year lurking and designing to get the now foamie hybrid model done enough (back to 80/ct). Then I started building and posting. Here I am 21 months after starting, slogging it out and putting in time on the build almost everyday (certainly many more days than not).

I'm sure that is not typical, but it is all part of the decisions that we each make. I am trying to do the best job that I can to create a high quality camper with a rich wood finished interior.

If you want fast building go with plywood and leave your options open to add foam board on the inside later.

I wanted to make sure that my wife, who self proclaims to not like camping because of the lack of amenities and tends to "run cold", will at least have a shot at being warm inside, so I am using lots of insulation everywhere. Time will tell.

[bdosborn]

Where do you plan on camping? California builders often skip the insulation, Colorado builders often insulate.

Bruce

[S. Heisley]

Where do you plan on camping? California builders often skip the insulation, Colorado builders often insulate.

Bruce

Ahhh, make that mostly Southern California builders. If you camp up where I am and want to enjoy the mountains and beaches, it gets chilly (30's) at night and doesn't warm all that quickly in the morning. It takes a little more time to insulate; but, I doubt you'll be sorry. It helps with noisy camp neighbors, too. And, don't just think of the cold. Insulation helps fight the heat, as well.

[bdosborn]

I guess I was trying to say that the OP needs to do an assessment of camping temperatures. It definitely takes some effort to insulate the walls, easily doubling the amount of work required. Is it worth it for one or two cold nights a year? Maybe, maybe not. Additional blankets (or dogs) might be easier for a couple nights a year. I know a lot of builders that build wonderful trailers without insulation in the walls, but they typically live in temperate climates. Condensation from your breath during cold nights is something that you'll have to deal with if you don't insulate, you'll probably have frost on the inside of your walls when it gets below freezing. Keep in mind that they everyone usually recommends to insulate the roof.

We looked at where we camp and we often have nights at or below freezing in the spring and fall. I liked the performance of the insulated teardrop so much that I doubled the thickness of the insulation in the walls for the second trailer. Every builder has to weigh the effort of the build against how they expect at the camper to perform when it's done.

That being said, I can't remember anyone saying they wished they hadn't insulated. I have seen a few posts where people wished they had.

Bruce

[DMcCam]

You know, I forgot to mention that we didn't insulate our deck. Ours is made of 1 1/8" tongue and grove plywood. With our 5" of foam mattress on top we sleep very warmly. If we were to camp in very sub zero climates I would have insulated. I'd guess we would be fine in weather down to the teens though.

All the Best,

Dave

[numumzu]

Sorry numumzu. There is seldom going to be one easy answer to a question, and it wouldn't be right for me to be so presumptuous to make the decision for you. I have tried to give you a few more details and opinions that I have read, that maybe you have not, so that you can make a more informed decision for yourself.

I understand your frustration at this stage of the game and will take your comments in stride, hopefully in the good humored manner that it was intended(?). Sorry about the noob comment.

No problem.

I have my HF trailer built. I have spent the past 2 months in mental deliberations....

Now I am thinking the skeleton system may be the best for me. Easier than a sandwich.... but still have insulation. Also it alleviates my concern for support for the doors, windows and cabinets...



Thanks for the help.

This is the first trailer I am building. I am sure that after this one I will have learned much.... and will decide to build another.

[2bits]

I think your comment of: "perhaps down to 20' " tells me what range you are willing to camp in. So if the LOW range is in the 20's, that is the same as me and I live in Texas. A teardrop with solid 3/4" plywood walls and the very smallest, tiniest $15 wally world heater they sell will keep you more than toasty very nicely in 20 degree weather, and speaking from experience I kept my 4x7 teardrop on low in sub freezing temps. Just buy a spare heater please, because if your heater goes out, regardless of insulation it is going to be extremely uncomfortable, (that was me last weekend when I was nice and toasty until my heater went out in 20' weather)...

To be honest, even a drafty teardrop made out of cardboard and duct tape will still be nicely heated with a tiny heater due to the small area that you are heating (or cooling). It is just my opinion but all the other conversation is academic IF you have a heater. This assumes you will be camping at a state park or otherwise location that supplies power for a heater, if that is not the case, then my assertions do not apply at all and the academic approach is extremely relevant, at which time I would still support the solid plywood walls. Many of the responses are from experienced teardroppers who dry camp (no power) and their suggestions hold much more weight then mine in those cases, so take where you will be camping into account and let the conversation continue, I just wanted to level set to highlight YOUR camping preference which should help dictate your construction method. If I were to do a frame method, I really like the skeleton method of taking a piece of plywood and removing the non-structural sections and replacing with insulation!

I hope that helps!

[numumzu]

I think your comment of: "perhaps down to 20' " tells me what range you are willing to camp in. So if the LOW range is in the 20's, that is the same as me and I live in Texas.

Yes, I am in Central Texas and hit the Hill Country.

To be honest, even a drafty teardrop made out of cardboard and duct tape will still be nicely heated with a tiny heater due to the small area that you are heating (or cooling). It is just my opinion but all the other conversation is academic IF you have a heater. This assumes you will be camping at a state park or otherwise location that supplies power for a heater, if that is not the case, then my assertions do not apply at all and the academic approach is extremely relevant, at which time I would still support the solid plywood walls.

Most or all of my camping will be with "shore" power.

If I were to do a frame method, I really like the skeleton method of taking a piece of plywood and removing the non-structural sections and replacing with insulation!

I hope that helps!

This is the way that I am leaning..... If for nothing other than the weight reduction.

[rowerwet]

Insulation is like a second door, I can't say I've seen people wish they hadn't done either, and many wishing they had.
My walls are foam and ply sandwich, the foam makes the whole trailer quieter, my roof isn't insulated, rain is VERY loud. I built my tear in a bit over a month from a bare frame to sleepable, stick built and fully glued construction (no screws, nails or staples). Wall and roof insulation is worth it, next time I will make a foamie.