Foamie weekender/nano/sunhopper mod newbie needs help

[chimpta]

Newbie - inexperienced builder. Help. I just ordered a Northern Tool 5x8 trailer. My wife said she is stocking up on herbal anti-depressants for me. Help me save face and prove her wrong. I am hoping that a modest designed foamie build will be do-able for me. I will need a lot of help. I have spent days reading various threads. I need some specific advice on what I want to do. At this point I am very flexible on the design. I made this simple diagram to try to give you an idea of what I am thinking.



I want it to be light, easier to build that the ones that take 3 years (I would rather be camping), not too expensive, done in stages so at some point I can go camping and continue to work on it as time allows, canvas skin, probably wood floor and reasonable fuel economy. This diagram is far from accurate but I hope it will help us share ideas. What I think I want:
1. Something like a foamie weekender (4x8 body) but with a vertical back galley. Maybe it will slope down a bit on the roof at the back. That is what I tried to draw. Please ignore those flapping triangles. They really don't exist just a way I could draw this. I have to get better at some, drawing software. Will a little slope in the back help with aerodynamics or should I just skip it? I am not concerned about aesthetics here just fuel economy. The nose more like the nano-weekender but it may not slope at the bottom if I have a cargo box shaped to handle the air flow.
2. A simple galley with a vertical door, which I hope will be easier to build and less likely to leak. I would like a section of the galley to be open to the cabin like I think is in the sunhopper, which I love, BTW.
3. A flat roof, maybe? I don't know why the weekender and nano have a bend in the roof. Is that really important or is it fine to just be flat?
4. Spend more time cutting foam with a kitchen knife than making sawdust. But really not much wood. I really need your help here on where wood makes sense and is needed for safety reasons. Like what wood is really needed in the roof, the cabin, the galley? I know that is a big question but I have to start somewhere.
5. At this point I am thinking to get prefab doors and windows (not sure I need windows yet) to save my sanity. I would love to save money and make my own but I think in the long run I will be happier with the prefab ones. That being said any suggestions on putting those in a foamie? Wood framing? Wood thickness? etc.?

I could write a book here but I think this is a good start, at least I feel much better now that I started something. I really appreciate all suggestions and support.

Glad to be part of the community.
Mark

[GPW]

That all sounds easily doable !!!

[lthomas987]

Sounds eminently doable. I am about to embark on the same adventure! I look forward to watching your progress.

[chimpta]

Thanks GPW and It. Possibly my biggest expense will be the doors. Frank Bear's doors can come to fit different width walls. If my walls are going to be the 2" foam and the trim rings can be for sizes that wide, what size ring thickness do you suggest I order and how do you suggest I prepare the foam cutout for the door? Maybe a 2"x2" wood framing? I hope to speak to Frank tomorrow.
Mark

[atahoekid]

Welcome to the Foamie side, Let me try to answer some of your questions from my point of view. I built my Road Foamie with vertical galley doors also. I think the hatch hinge is just a leak looking for a place to happen. Even if you hinge from vertical, I think the hinge area is an issue. I built mine with doors hinged at the side and the roof comes over the doors. No leaks for me... As far as doors and windows, I bought my windows at an RV salvage yard and glad I did. I framed the window opening in wood for a bit of added strength (a door or window opening ruins a perfectly good solid wall). I built my doors and also frame them in wood for a bit of added strength also. I ended making my doors twice because I screwed up and cut them down too far. I added some wood at the hinges and at the door latch for added strength. As far as the use of wood, I used more than most since I have cabinets in my bulkheads. Otherwise, the bulkheads could be a simple sheet of plywood. If I were building without cabinets, I probably would consider doing something like GPW with his arches in the foamstream. I also put reinforcing wooden spars in my roof. Remember though, I am almost 7 foot wide and overall cabin length pushes 14 feet. Hope that helps you some. You've come to the right place to ask your questions. Looking forward to seeing your build in progress. We LUV Feel free to ask any questions that you come up with

[jss06]

Welcome and good luck on the build.

On the topic of windows, you need some way to ventilate the trailer. If you buy doors make sure they have a window that will open to get air inside. I don't think extra windows are necassary. If you build your own doors then put opening windows in them.

What you are looking at is easily doable. Once the basic shell is completed you can use it for camping and complete the build as you have time. I am doing this myself. I finally finished the galley and am about to start on the interior of mine.

As for the verticle rear. I built mine that way and it tows good. Yes there is more drag but I don't think it is that big of an impact. Maybee a MPG. The trade off is there is a lot more storage room inside.

[chimpta]

Thanks Mel and jss06,

Very helpful. There is so much info here to research and your build experience is greatly appreciated. Mel I love the idea of the roof coming over the doors. I will revisit your build.

Mark

[kudzu]

While I can't tell you why others do designs with a slanted roof but my reasons are improved aerodynamics & encourage water runoff. I'll also note that aerodynamically, mine will also slope down toward the rear of the vehicle, similar to the weekender. If it's a smaller trailer with a correspondingly small area of flat roof then I'm not sure how much difference it will make. Then again, I'm a newbie also. My knowledge of aerodynamics is minimal.

[chimpta]

Hi kudzu,

I was also thinking about the water runoff. I want this to be a 4 season camper. Living in Colorado I could wake up in the morning with plenty of snow on the roof. I think I would be glad to have a slanted roof at that time or even during a normal rain. We also get quite a bit of wind here. It can push 18 wheelers off the road. I was thinking about that after my first post (it is quite windy today) and wondering if, besides better gas mileage, if good aerodynamics might help the TD to track better in a big wind?

Mark

[rowerwet]

not sure about your overall roof height, but a galley hatch that hinges at the top may become a head knocker. part of the reason for a curved lid and the hinge being so far up the curve is to keep the spars and hatch well above head height. figure 6 feet if you are an average person, then figure some extra for those less than level campsites, especially if you use jacks to level and end up raising the nose, the tail comes down and you could end up crouching to use the galley. Side hinged doors would get rid of that, but then you need an awning to work under for rain, sun, or camping under trees that drop needles/leaves when the wind blows. (or passing birds)
according to people who have put a teardrop in a wind tunnel, the back curve doesn't mean much for aerodynamics, the front curve is the important one, airflow separates just after the tallest part of the roof at highway speeds. Rain and snow melt are more of a reason for not having a dead flat roof.
Also, remember air, just like water doesn't like sharp corners. that long flat slope on the front will help move air up, but that sharp bend at the top will create a big "bump" in the air and actually cause resistance. If you don't want to curve foam/wood to make a bend there, I would consider adding a few "facets" going all the way across, there to make a more rounded flow to the joint. (I always look at a weekender and think how much nicer it would look with each of the three flat panels on the front instead made with two or three panels, each softening the hard angles of the front, of course that does mean more work)

[rowerwet]

wood makes sense for the door frame and galley. I used the forward and aft posts of the door frame on my tear as roof supports. I always planned on hauling boats on the roof, and wanted a roof that could take pretty much any canoe or kayak. On a foamie that would be even more important to me. Basically have the two posts going all the way up to the bottom of the roof inside the sidewall, then have spars tying the tops together.
The galley wall can be foam or wood, however you need a lot more thickness of foam to get the same strength as wood, space inside a tear is tight, 3/8 plywood will give you that extra space that 1" or more foam won't.
Same thing for the galley counter, while you can make it out of foam, unless you do some fancy laminating of wood and foam, you will get more space under the counter with wood, one place a half inch can really make or break things.
(of course my galley wall is "stick built", meaning it is 1.5" thick. 1.5" foam would do the same job and be a bit lighter for much less effort.... (where was the big thrifty thread when I started building?)

[atahoekid]

It doesn't take much of a slope to get water to run off. If I remember right, it's only a 1/4" per foot of a slope so in an eight foot roofline, it's a 2 inch drop. It can be made to "look" flat.

[chimpta]

Everyone has been so helpful here. I am sorry to say this project has been put on hold. A tiny vintage standie just about fell in our laps. My wife wants a standie fixer upper rather than a foamie TD built from scratch. At least at this point. So we are the proud owners of a '69 Cardinal model 13 standard. The cabin is 10X7 on the outside. Needs work.


Playing with the trailer for a few days makes it so clear to me how wonderful a foamie is. Light, water proof, easy to cut, insulating, no rot, to some degree self healing. A foamie was also, for me, going to be something I could easily pull with my very fuel efficient Mazda mx-6. So a foamie may still be in my future. But first a vintage standie. I am moving over to the vintage section to continue with this.

Thanks again for all of your suggestions and support.

Mark

[Jst83]

That is nice we'll need more pics of it, I'd love to do a standie also. It's amazing how easy it is to get hooked on these little campers in any form.

[chimpta]

Thanks Scott. I moved over to the Canned Ham section and post more pics there.
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