Bread-loaf build thread

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

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Re: Bread-loaf build thread

Postby Fred Trout » Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:07 pm

Hotwires used in soldering gun were steel welding wire:
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Re: Bread-loaf build thread

Postby GPW » Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:03 am

Coming along nicely !!! 8)
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Re: Bread-loaf build thread

Postby Fred Trout » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:14 pm

Thanks for the encouraging words, GPW. Feels like it's going slowly sometimes.

As expected, the angles up front make the job of arranging & cutting the foam pieces difficult; already have a small pile of "that won't work" pieces.
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Re: Bread-loaf build thread

Postby Fred Trout » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:43 am

Cut the fill-inserts that go around the window after it is installed - will glue those in with silicone window caulk used around the nailing flange & will fill the edges after the inserts go in; don't want water to get in the most vulnerable wall penetration.

Cut & installed the wiring & the foam inserts that go on top of the wiring; inside back roof is ready for vinyl spackle & sanding. The wiring will run down the galley side of the bulkhead. Wire to left is for Galley LED; right goes to interior overhead LED & Fan. Will be using one of these perforators since I was not satisfied on how well the canvas was sticking to the foam:

http://www.amazon.com/Silverline-221199 ... 876&sr=8-1

Glued the flashing in the fan cutout with Gripper - may put a couple of rivets in but it appears to be very solid and the canvas over the top of it will hold it completely since I will be overlapping the canvas over the inside edges of the cutout. More practice on cutting canvas to finish is needed and I will get plenty when I put in the roof panels !

Now the pix:
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Foam filler inserts.jpg
Foam inserts so that the canvas will cover the window cutout right to the protruding window edge
Foam filler inserts.jpg (115.93 KiB) Viewed 2934 times
Rear roof section inside view.jpg
Filled the wiring channels and edges of roof dado with foam insert after running the wires.
Rear roof section inside view.jpg (77.39 KiB) Viewed 2934 times
Fan cutout flip-side glue-up.jpg
Flashing may or may not need rivets - will decide when it's dry
Fan cutout flip-side glue-up.jpg (140.16 KiB) Viewed 2934 times
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Re: Bread-loaf build thread

Postby KCStudly » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:59 am

You're moving right along there. :thumbsup:

About silicone sealer; most people will recommend that you use a paintable caulk instead (... usually RV putty to bed, then caulk around the edges). The silicone won't take paint or glue, is incredibly difficult to fully remove, and does not stick well to itself once cured.

About pulling wires, you mentioned elsewhere that the insulation on the speaker wire you are using is soft, or gummy, making it unlikely to be able to pull thru the foam and asked if I had the same concern. All of my wiring has the harder style insulation (PVC?) and most of the larger wires have an extra outer jacket that makes them easier to pull.

About adhesion to foam; remember that the foam itself is the weak link. If you are seeing a fuzzy film of the foam stuck to the glue, then you are getting a good bond. You have to remember that the primary loading for the skin will be in shear, where the skin and foam are trying to slip past each other. When you consider the total area affected the strength is significant because it would have to fail all at once. When we test we tend to peel a small edge up (localized tension) and the joint fails like a zipper, a little at a time. So yes, we need to do a good job making sure that we have full coverage (unstuck areas can balloon in the wind and propagate), and we need to make sure that our edges are secured well (which is why we like to wrap the corners over and/or tuck them between the cabin and frame). I have found that a light scuff with sand paper goes a long way toward helping stuff grab the foam, especially on the printed side of the panel which tends to have more of a glaze on it.

Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:
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Re: Bread-loaf build thread

Postby Fred Trout » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:31 am

Thanks for the encouragment - I need it. Seems like progress will come in one giant step when the roof goes on and that promises to be a hectic work session.

Heh, just another case where what I call stuff isn't exactly correct. The full name of the caulk is "DAP Fast Dry Acrylic Latex Caulk Plus Silicone" and 'paintable in 30 minutes', so yeah, got the right stuff.

Reason I mentioned wires was mine got caught in the sander yesterday and pulled out the chinking foam rather than pulling the wire - too sticky.

Rowerwet swears by the perforator improving the canvas adhesion and it costs little for the improvement (<$20 and some elbow grease). If you recall from my drywall screw test, the foam bubbling out along the edge does give the glue additional surface area to attach too and makes a stronger joint. So worth doing even if the improvement is not huge or important.

Since I ding up the panel surfaces, they all get fairing for all the gouges, dings and oopsies and sanded after, so I do both suspenders and a belt automatically.

Also, you should look at Rowerwet's latest thread or facebook mouse-boat post for the technique he uses to reduce the Great Stuff bubbles & expansion. I am going to use it to join panels even though it's messy and all the voids I filled around the window only had small bubbles. The only bad thing about GS is that it is not closed cell and will absorb water. So using GS sealing the window area is not a good idea even if the canvassing job would cover it - way too easy for water to get in around the window.
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Re: Bread-loaf build thread

Postby Fred Trout » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:00 pm

Today's update ! Got the walls Gorilla Glued & screwed in place with normal some good, some bad results. Crooked floor had gaps where the GG struggled to foam up enough to seal - see pix. GG is not very predictable in how well it foams up; moral of story is you must apply too much. Will have to apply 'silicone' to close up gaps on the edges of the walls where they meet the floor on both sides. Plastic drywall screws seemed to work pretty well; walls stayed in their slighted crooked configuration without getting more crooked :R

Fairing the roof is coming along; got the rear roof panel nearly ready for canvas and the inside of roof panel two 1st spackle coat done & sanded and the other side spackle applied but not sanded. Might have time to canvas, glue-up and assemble roof tomorrow or certainly by Tuesday.
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Crummy GG application due to gap.jpg
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Good GG application in galley.jpg
Good GG application in galley.jpg (150.25 KiB) Viewed 2886 times
Roof Panel 2 first spackle coat before sanding.jpg
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Re: Bread-loaf build thread

Postby GPW » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:54 pm

You can get Gorilla Glue to foam like crazy by mixing it with a little half water , half rubbing alcohol mix ... The plane guys have been doing that for years .... fires it off quickly too ...
There’s no place like Foam !
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Re: Bread-loaf build thread

Postby KCStudly » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:32 pm

... but the strength comes from a tightly fit joint. After all, the glue is just foam and the more you let it expand the more it is just air and less structure.

Better clamping, weights, or mechanical fasteners are indicated.

Did you screw up through the floor just into the foam? Not much grab between screws and foam. Are you sure that the foam didn't just push the wall up off of the screws resulting in a gap?
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Re: Bread-loaf build thread

Postby Fred Trout » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:41 pm

I sprayed water on the non-glue surface & tried to make it even but what can you do when you don't do it right ? :D

It's all done now - I just don't like GG - too spendy, and I put on quite a bit but you see how it came out - erm or didn't come out.

I will just caulk it & canvas it which is really what holds it in place anyway. Some stuff is just too persnickety for me. The walls will only be unsupported by the roof for a day or two and the bulkhead supports them well anyway.

Back to work - I want this to move along faster so will work a little longer.
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Re: Bread-loaf build thread

Postby Fred Trout » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:49 pm

KCStudly wrote:... but the strength comes from a tightly fit joint. After all, the glue is just foam and the more you let it expand the more it is just air and less structure.

Better clamping, weights, or mechanical fasteners are indicated.

Did you screw up through the floor just into the foam? Not much grab between screws and foam. Are you sure that the foam didn't just push the wall up off of the screws resulting in a gap?


Not worried about it KC. The uneveness was because of the slight warps in the recycled OSB & my crooked cuts & installation. Everything is out of square but it will all go together anyway. I used the dry wall nylon inserts I tested AND a few deck screws just into the foam - everything stayed where is was to begin with - there was no lifting of the sides only bad carpentry to begin with :shock:

I put those blooper pix up because they really were bloopers but this is not a work of art or perfection incarnate. Just something to replace a tent, make it there and back again, keep us comfortable and it will do that even if I have to use duct tape and a 15x15 pop-up tent :FNP
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Re: Bread-loaf build thread

Postby KCStudly » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:00 pm

:thumbsup:

Nothing wrong with knowing what your priorities are, working toward your goals, and getting what you want!

... and you will be done long before me. :NC :FNP ;)
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Re: Bread-loaf build thread

Postby Fred Trout » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:01 pm

The wall is tight on both ends; but when the 2nd OSB floor crosspiece was added it was 1/16 to 1/8" lower for the first foot or two than the 1st OSB crosspiece for whatever reason. My guess is that it or the underlying 2x2 is warped. The other wall doesn't have the gap; go figure :shrug:

We will see how soon this gets done and in what kinda condition it is when I call it done. The target is to have a weather-proof exterior shell by the 3rd week of July so I can make the trip to the "4th Annual Walk the Winds Gathering Wyoming". Anything past a completed shell is gravy but it's possible that it will all be completed including the rough shelving in the Galley and in the back & front of the sleeping compartment. I want to wait until I have taken the TD out for a few trips to see what is needed for those add-ons.
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Re: Bread-loaf build thread

Postby GPW » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:43 am

true ,true ... the GG is just foam , but remember ,UNLIKE A WOODEN TD, it’s the outer skin that holds a Foamie’all together...  The best joins are ones that fit exact Before gluing ... ;)
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Re: Bread-loaf build thread

Postby Fred Trout » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:53 am

Exact is always nice but easier conceptually than in reality. Especially for the carpentry challenged :R
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