Planning stages

[Wrenchbender]

Noob here. I’m in the planning stages of my teardrop. I want to put together a good build, but I’m not a real patient guy, so I want to do it as quickly as possible. I also am “semi-retired,” so I don’t have a lot of spare cash to pour into this. That means keeping it simple and straightforward.

Although I am “semi-retired,” I do work as an aircraft mechanic. The job situation calls for me to work out-of-town. I have found that the most cost-efficient housing arrangement is tent camping at RV parks on military bases. My wife stays home for her own job and to take care of our teenage son. So this camper is mostly just for me right now – although my wife may join me (part-time) at some later date.

I am looking at building a “generic BenRoy” per the plans/instructions on this site. Here are some of my thoughts. I’d like those with experience to chime in.

Use the Harbor Freight 4’x8’ trailer as a base – best bang for the buck. I am thinking that building it out to a 5 ft width won’t add much to cost. But the 6” overhang on each side may call for a lot more fabrication over the wheels. I want to keep it as simple as possible and I’m worried that boxing in the wheels properly may call for an unnecessarily difficult and time-consuming work. I'm 6'1" and 215 lbs. My wife (who may join me occasionally) is 5'7" and weighs a lot less. Is the extra foot of width really worth it if I’m probably going to be by myself most of the time?

Walls – simple solid plywood. Fastest fabrication and ¾” or thicker should have plenty of strength.

Doors – fabricate them myself out of the sidewall plywood. While that adds to time and difficultly, the store-bought doors are (to me, a cheapskate) shockingly expensive. Another question is – two doors or just one? Again, I’ll be alone most of the time. I would still need at least a window on the side opposite the door for ventilation, is the additional door that much more work?

Galley and cabin storage – I’ve seen a lot a wonderful cabinet work in a lot of the builds here. But I’m not a cabinet-maker. Could I get by with a simple counter and a couple of shelves? And simple shelves for cabin storage? Looks like a place to save a lot of fabrication time.

Electrical – Reading up, basic wiring looks manageable. I plan on a shore power inlet since I’m camping in military installation RV parks where even the “primitive” sites have electric and water hookups. Since I live and work in Florida, AC will probably be a necessity – eventually. But not right now. I think I’ll arrange bracing and prewire to add a small air conditioner later. If I’m using a propane camp stove and an ice chest, do I need more than 2 AC outlets in the galley? I may want to add a small TV to the cabin later – using tablets and wifi for entertainment right now. More than 2 AC outlets in the cabin? I don’t plan on boondocking, so I don’t think that I’ll need a DC power system at all.

I also don’t see the need for “porchlights” on the sides. On big RV rigs it makes sense because people congregate under the side awnings. But in the camping pictures I’ve seen of teardrops, people seem to gather at the galley in back – because most teardroppers seem to put a canopy there for shade while cooking. There will already be a galley work light there to act as a “porchlight.”

Finishing – Varnish, paint, or aluminum-clad? I don’t know whether all of the extra work to get a varnish or paint job to look decent is worth the savings over just skinning the whole thing with aluminum. Thoughts?

[tony.latham]

Wrenchbender:

two doors or just one? Again, I’ll be alone most of the time.

Two. End of discussion. If the wife gets in there once, and you've got one door, it's not going to work. Besides, two doors means two windows. You really need the ventilation. (Yeah, I know, you could put a window on that side.)

Factory doors are expensive. I'm happy with mine. I've put them in three teardrops, and when I did it, the thought that went through my brain––six times–– was, "that was easy." Building doors is labor intensive, or so I've read. Add up hinges, latches, trim and windows and you'll see what a DIY door costs. I think TC Teardrops sells doors a bit less than Vintage does. (I'm fine with the Vintage doors BTW. The big smoked glass windows is a nice feature.)

Galley and cabin storage – I’ve seen a lot a wonderful cabinet work in a lot of the builds here. But I’m not a cabinet-maker. Could I get by with a simple counter and a couple of shelves? And simple shelves for cabin storage? Looks like a place to save a lot of fabrication time.

Simple is functional. Take a look at my interior, the bottom shelf is an extension of the galley counter. The 3" lips work great and everything is easy to find:



Take a look at this thread: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=61738 and you'll see a similar interior.

I put sliders up front under a shelf. You need the shelf to "put stuff" like books, glasses or whatever:



My galley is relatively simple. The angled drawer is a challenge, but you could make it with a 90º face, too.



Five wide? Yes, but on a four-wide trailer? It's been done but there are tradeoffs that it sounds like you understand. Northern Tool sells a 5-wide trailer.

Finishing – Varnish, paint, or aluminum-clad?

A well sealed aluminum-clad teardrop isn't afraid of years in the sun. I don't know anything else that'll do that.

Yep, there's choices though.

Tony

[Wrenchbender]

Wrenchbender:

two doors or just one? Again, I’ll be alone most of the time.

Two. End of discussion. If the wife gets in there once, and you've got one door, it's not going to work. Besides, two doors means two windows. You really need the ventilation. (Yeah, I know, you could put a window on that side.)

Factory doors are expensive. I'm happy with mine. I've put them in three teardrops, and when I did it, the thought that went through my brain––six times–– was, "that was easy." Building doors is labor intensive, or so I've read. Add up hinges, latches, trim and windows and you'll see what a DIY door costs. I think TC Teardrops sells doors a bit less than Vintage does. (I'm fine with the Vintage doors BTW. The big smoked glass windows is a nice feature.)

I was kind of wavering on the one-door-or-two issue anyway. Two it is.

However, on the factory-vs-fabricated-door issue, I'm a bit more stuck. I'm looking for a total build budget of $1000 to $1200 complete. Two factory doors are around $600. Half of my total budget. I think I could put that money to better use in other parts of the trailer, even though it will eat up a lot of time fabricating and properly installing the doors.

Galley and cabin storage – I’ve seen a lot a wonderful cabinet work in a lot of the builds here. But I’m not a cabinet-maker. Could I get by with a simple counter and a couple of shelves? And simple shelves for cabin storage? Looks like a place to save a lot of fabrication time.

Simple is functional. Take a look at my interior, the bottom shelf is an extension of the galley counter. The 3" lips work great and everything is easy to find:



Take a look at this thread: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=61738 and you'll see a similar interior.

I put sliders up front under a shelf. You need the shelf to "put stuff" like books, glasses or whatever:



My galley is relatively simple. The angled drawer is a challenge, but you could make it with a 90º face, too.

Exactly what I'm thinking. I like it it. A lot.

Five wide? Yes, but on a four-wide trailer? It's been done but there are tradeoffs that it sounds like you understand. Northern Tool sells a 5-wide trailer.

Today, the Harbor Freight 4-wide trailer (1720 lb capacity) is on sale (as it often is) for $349.99 without any coupons. Normal retail is $499.99.

The Northern Tools 5-wide (1980 lb capacity) is NOT on sale (and never has been when I check) for $529.99. An extra $180 for one foot of width.

With my tight budget, I'm not sold on the need for those 12 inches. But maybe I can get something on the cheap off of craigslist, we'll see.

Finishing – Varnish, paint, or aluminum-clad?

A well sealed aluminum-clad teardrop isn't afraid of years in the sun. I don't know anything else that'll do that.

I'm more focused on the price difference vs ease of fabrication at this point. I've seen builders quote prices as low as $70 per sheet of aluminum. Figure $210 plus trim for aluminum as compared to - what, $80-$100 for paint or varnish with a lot more time and a much more demanding level of finish work to look decent and last.

Yep, there's choices though.

Tony

That's part of the fun and part of the frustration, isn't it?

[KCStudly]

The two most popular answers to the "what would you have done differently" poll are: going with two doors from the start; and building 5 wide instead of 4.

On the shelves, I remember someone using those prefab wire shelf units like you find for closet organizers for their inside shelves. I thought that was a pretty simple solution and it helped keep the cabin from feeling closed in. For some reason I was thinking it was Becky/Oldragbaggers on her Sagwagon build, but when I look back now don't seem to find it, though she did very simple shelving.

Pick out some plastic totes and bins, and size your shelves accordingly. (I wish that I had done that, instead of just building and hoping that I can find something suitable later.)

My other advice would be to really take a much harder look at your itemized budget. Nice builds under $2k are very rare. Do you plan on insulating? Highly recommended. IMO the only way you could even approach those numbers is if you don't keep very close track of your expenses.

On contemplating not having a 12v DC system; that means that if you ever stop at night away from a campsite, say at a truck stop or wallie-world parking lot, and you want to get something out, or have a roadside meal, you will be reliant on flash lights, a head lamp or self contained battery operated puck lights; all of which eat batteries. If that's what you had in mind, great, but the message is to think about all of the different ways and situations that you might find yourself in and then decide what you want to do about it; don't just assume that you won't need 12v lighting because you will "always" be camped at a base campground. Even a small motorcycle battery can operate LED lights, and can be charged from your TV or when you are plugged in.

[daveesl77]

I built Conch Fritter on the 1720# HF frame. I used both the bolts and welded all joints. I also added in a central tow tongue bar (2x2 square steel tubing) back to the 2nd cross member and extended through the normal A tongue and out an additional 18".

Mine is 5'4" wide interior size, but 5" would have worked too. My floor is 9' long, but with the front/rear curves it becomes 10' exterior cabin length. I made mine 5' high (interior) so we can sit on the raised bed frame in really bad weather. I kept the trailer frame standard size, but put the floor system as an overhang on the sides and rear. My galley slides in under the bed frame and most of the weight is near or over the axle. I knew I would be putting a fairly large tongue box which holds the battery and propane tank, so I offset my weight distribution without having to move the axle. I way overbuilt my floor system and could have gotten by with much thinner panels (less weight). I have full cabinets in the front, two doors and a dorm refrig in the front area, but everything is made from real wood or ply and lots of foam board, no particle board. I have a norm of 1.5" of foamboard insulation in all areas. Doors are solid, laminated luan + cabinet grade ply + 1/4 ply + 3/16" cedar strips, all glued and sealed. Walls were designed so that the doors would be cut directly out of them after full lamination of the entire wall sections.

Total weight, fully loaded, was I believe 1,340 lbs. I have a 125# (+/-) tongue load. For a very short period of time I contemplated only building a single door and instead went with two. Best decision in the build, followed by the slide-away galley system.

Electrical is 120v plug in, 12v battery. We can do shore power, truck power, solar or a small generator. I have a 2000 watt inverter that runs the 120v dorm fridge when driving and can run it from either shore power or solar when camping.

My build cost was pretty low, because I had a lot of stuff I needed from other projects and camping/sailing things I've built over the years. In addition, we have an RV salvage yard close by and I was getting stuff for next to nothing, so my total cost ended up being about $2,400. It is about 85-90% complete now and I'm about to start on another finish/modification phase in a few days. All total I spent 4 months in the build, I'm retired, but also disabled, so I was doing probably an average of maybe 3-6 hours per day, 4 days per week. It's first real trip was over 2,400 miles with only one problem (one of the axle hubs literally disintegrated in the first 250 miles). If I didn't have the parts on hand or salvaged, I'd say I'd probably have about $3.5k-$4k in the build.

It can handle a queen size bed, but we have a weird sized foam mattress instead, so a little bigger than a full size in width. We have lots of floor space for us and our dog and the ability to sit up comfortably. I am 6' and weigh about 220, wife is about 5.6 and 150. Dog is 16 yrs old and about 40 lbs.

dave

[Wrenchbender]

OK, emerging consensus...

1.) Must be a 5-wide
2.) Must have 110v AC and 12v DC electric. Since I live in Florida, I am contemplating adding a small AC down the road. Do I need 30 amp service for that?
3.) Simple shelving is fine for both the galley and cabin storage.

Other areas for possible fabrication simplification -

- Can I omit the interior cladding on the galley hatch?

- Lights and electrical: Can I omit the "porch lights?" Use a single dome light in the cabin (no reading lights, etc)? A single outlet block in the cabin and another single outlet block in the galley? I definitely see the ceiling fan as a necessity. For DC, will a small motorcycle battery suffice? How difficult is it to charge the teardrop battery from the tow vehicle? Or off a 110v shore power? Are the DC outlets really useful?

I may not be incorporating everything in the beginning - like air conditioning. But I want to at least be aware of needing to leave space and access for such future additions. And pre-wiring for such things BEFORE I close up the skin.

Any other areas where I can save time/money without affecting REAL camping utility?

[dales133]

Yea a small motor cycle battery will do fine but just remember youll need to recharge it more often.
Ive got shelves in my galley and house not because i couldnt biuld cabinetts but because it saved weight,work and i hate doors on things especialy when theres no need for it.i plan on throwing a change of clothes or two on the shelf at the most
I also didnt skin the inside of my galley and not to save work but because i prefer the look. Its plenty strong enough if you plan it right

[bobhenry]

Yep 5'6" wide on 4' HF (modified) frame with a 9 foot galley




(previous owner destroyed frame loading a huge bolder on the original frame)

[Wrenchbender]

OK, remembering that I'll be using this in Florida during the summer and not the Grand Tetons in February...

Insulation.

I plan on starting with just a ceiling fan but building in the capability to add AC later. The cabin ceiling will be insulated per the Generic BenRoy plans.

Do I need to bother with insulating the floor? Can I use a simple solid plywood floor (3/4" or more)?

Are solid 3/4" plywood sidewalls sufficient?

Is insulation between the galley and cabin necessary or beneficial?

P.S.

Wow, bobhenry - that's one hell of a galley! You must be a serious cook/chef!

[bobhenry]

YES, YES and YES.....

Noise isolation is a secondary benefit but the need to keep the cool inside during hot weather is a major goal.
Insulating the floor is as simple as laying down closed cell foam board and a layer of plywood or osb on top as the sub floor.
I completed Rip Van Winkle with simple 7/16 osb sidewalls and later added 3/4" blue foam board that was covered with heavy material. It insulated well and made a nicely finished look.





I place my air conditioner UNDER the camper in the shade and duct the cold air only into a duct I designed for that purpose however an open window will work also.



[

[Wrenchbender]

I'm intrigued by your air conditioning system. Sounds like an easy retrofit for down the road. Can you post some pictures?

Also, as stated in my initial post, I am striving for an expedient build with a limited budget ($1200 max). Although insulating the floor is simple, it does add to fabrication time and cost. Camping in Florida is basically "3-season" camping. I am still doubtful of the benefit of floor insulation versus the additional money and effort. Sound deadening is a minor consideration for me, most campgrounds are extremely quiet at night and I tend to sleep like the dead. Besides, doesn't the mattress provide a good measure of insulation and sound-deadening on it's own?

I concede the ceiling needs to be insulated with the sun beating down directly on it.

I believe that I will go with the solid plywood sidewalls. Even though an insulated sidewall would undoubtedly keep the cabin cooler, I wonder just how much cooler. And if I install an air conditioner, the difference would be moot, wouldn't it? I am not yet convinced that the considerably more complex fabrication will be of enough benefit to merit the added build time.

[Wrenchbender]

I place my air conditioner UNDER the camper in the shade and duct the cold air only into a duct I designed for that purpose however an open window will work also.

Interesting. I wonder if the AC unit could be ducted into a hose connected to a small opening instead of blocking a window for temporary installation/removal instead of your more permanent boxed in arrangement.

[bobhenry]

Yes they have.....

[Wrenchbender]

Cool!

[KCStudly]

Some people who live in Texas have said that they don't bother insulating because the small window shaker units are so over sized for a TD that they have no problem keeping up, and they have to have them running all of the time anyway. Just what I have read.

My suggestion for the small motorcycle battery was based on a minimal lighting setup. Not sure how long it would be good for if attempting to run a roof fan. If I were you I would spend a little time reading the "super simple electrical system" sticky in the electrical secrets forum.