Fixing to Start Large CT Conversion, What am I missing?

[texaskreek06]

I am getting ready to purchase a 8.5x30'(plus 2' V-nose) car hauler with raised 8' ceilings(I am 6'5 and a big guy, plus we wont move it much so the height will make it seem bigger than it is). I plan on converting to an rv for full time living for me and my wife and 3 dogs. I currently own a business and have decided to make some rather large life changes, so as Dave Ramsey says we can "Live like no one else so we can live like no one else". I have found a wealth of information from this forum and would really like to run my plans by some experience builders before I start. This project seems rather easy to me, although I know challenges will arise. I have remodeled 4 house, 1 of those was a complete gut of everything down to the studs and sub floor, but I know very little about RV's, except they seem poorly build for the price. Here are my plans, please advise me if you see any problems!

The Trailer- Enclosed Car Hauler, 8.5'x30'x8' interior height. Total height of 9'5" or so minus the A/C. I am building on enclosed 6" boxed frame(decided 8" was just extra weight?), 16" centers(don't think 12" is necessary), with .030 metal on the exterior, no dove tail, 1 roof vent wired for A/C(do I need more than 1 roof vent?), 5200# axles(not convinced I need the 7000#, plus I would have to buy a bigger truck). It will have added stabilizer jacks since it will hardly every be hooked to a vehicle, a seamless roof, and thermo cool ceiling insulation from the factory(moisture barrier, I'll add more insulation later). I think that sums up my trailer(haven't ordered it yet).

Built-out- I have the plans for the interior drown up. basically, Murphy bed in the rear, galley kitchen under the axles, with a living space on the other side of the kitchen and the bathroom in the V-nose and a little extra of the regular width trailer. I plan on being hooked up to city water, 50amp service, and city sewer. Here is what I plan on running....

Plumbing:
-Black & Gray water tank between frame, hooked to city and just left open. Although I am thinking about leaving the tank off and just using a portable if for some reason I can't be tied in for future use. But I think having the tank installed will add some value to it after I am done with it in a few years.
-No fresh water tank, I plan on always being hooked up to city water or some type of water.
-Plumbing Lines, ran through the frame under the trailer, cut holes out for the pipe to run through the cross members.

Electrical:
-Plan on wiring for 50amp service.
QUESTION: I planned on running regular house wiring, maybe between the walls. Is there enough gap between the metal exterior and the wood panels? Does it need to be in conduit, if so can it be in PVC conduit? If there is no room I will figure sometime else out, maybe through the ceiling and then create a small box from the ceiling down to where I need it.
QUESTION: Do I just wire everything into a standard beaker box, then have the 50 amp cord come into the breaker box similar to a house wiring?

Here is a list of appliances I plan on installing. Will they be sufficient? Overkill? or Not Enough?
A/C & Heater- Non Ducted Atwood 15026-15amp
Summit CR2110 Electric Cooktop- 110v version
Microwave- whatever is at the house
Mini Keurig K10- 12 amp draw
Led Lights- Not sure how much draw or how many I will need-I would like to install with dimmers.
Refrigerator- Vissani 9.9cu model#HVDR1040B from home depot
Tv- 32" samsung from the house, I think my 52" will be overkill trying to watch that close.
Xbox, Roku, Etc- Almost No Draw
Curling Iron, Straightner, Hair Dryer- I know the dryer is the most, my DW current one draws 16amps. I will probably try and get one that is not as high powered.

Propane:
Tankless Water Heater- I have done quite a bit of research on this and think I will go with a Marey LPG 10L with 3.1 GPM flow- on Amazon for $239. Seems to be the best flow rate and price combo. I plan on having a tank on the tongue and just running pipe under the floor to the heater which will be probably in the v-nose anyways.

Insulation- Not quite sure, probably do a combo of the silver foil with the bubbles and the hard foam board with some spray from around every piece...google poor mans insulation.
Not quite sure what to do under the belly, or if I need to. I live in central/west texas, so only maybe 2-3 weeks of the year are we under freezing, normally just at night, but we have had a few weeks as recent as last year that we barely cracked 20 degrees. Other than that is a pretty warm and relevantly dry climate, hottest summer days around 105-106, but with low to mid humidity.

I know I am missing something, but hopefully this is enough info to get someone to question my methods.... If we all agree than, well I won't know what to think. Again, this trailer will be parked for 1-3 years, maybe at the same spot, maybe split between two locations if I buy some property and start building a house. Thanks in advance.

P.S.- If anyone would like to get more involved, if you send me your email I will send you my spreadsheet with the sketch and build out pricing and info. I think I can make it happen for about $14k-$15k total.

[warnmar10]

My personal favorite big trailer conversion: http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=60804

[Hiflyer]

Just curious why this and not a tiny home on wheels?

The loft bed adds in a ton of room...

[hankaye]

texaskreek06, Howdy;

I'm not sure from your statement about your toilet arrangement if you are familiar
whit the workings of an RV black waste system.
"Black & Gray water tank between frame, hooked to city and just left open."
The "Holding tank" is necessary as the accumulated water (and other liquids), is
necessary for a good "flush". All of the energy of the toilet to tank energy is dissipated
when the contents hit the bottom of the tank. It is the accumulation of at least 1/2 to
3/4 of a tank that creates the amount of flow necessary to evacuate the tank, then giving
it a good rinse to ensure that the tank is clean and you are not starting the dreaded
"pyramid poo" . This weeks issue of RV Travel Newsletter just happens to have a short
blurb from Mark Polk, a leading educator of things RV.
"RV Tech Tips
from Mark Polk

Holding tank odors
One secret to controlling odors and extending the life of your RV holding tanks is to add plenty of water to the black water tank every time you empty it. You want the bottom of the tank to be completely covered by water, and depending on the size of the tank this might require three toilet bowls of water or it might take five or more. Another thing to keep in mind is to add plenty of water to the bowl every time you flush the toilet so there is enough water in the tank at all times to help control holding tank odors.

Mark Polk is the owner of RV Education 101, the premiere source of educational DVDs about buying, maintaining and using an RV. Learn more."

Truly, it is the one time when you can say that water accumulation is your friend when RV'ing
Thought I'd mention it before you got to far.

hank

[texaskreek06]

I had decided on a cargo trailer because I like the stealthiness of it. Also, it seams to be a more affordable option. As far the black and gray water tanks, thanks for the heads up. I had thought that since they were higher up gravity might be my friend. Where I initially plan on parking it, I was going to run the sewer to the rv and tie into the main sewer line. That would five me about 14-18 inches of height from the bottom of my tanks to the sewer line inlet. I had thought it would just function like a "normal house" that way, minus the run through on the tanks. I guess this is a spot where I am confused on how it will work. If I were to tie in just one tank and merge the gray & black, then leave that valve open to the sewer line would I still face that problem? Or if I just removed the tanks all together and piped directly to my sewer connection, would that work? Thanks again for the advise.

[hankaye]

texaskreek06, Howdy;

Best I can recommend is that you take the time to go to an RV repair facility
and have a good old sit-down and ask your questions with the guy tah does
the fixin', and cleanin' out of the clogged systems that show-up every year.
Don't bother with the sales folks they'll say most anything to sell you something,
stick with the repair tech's. they can give you good information on a lot more
than just the black and gray systems. I've been livin' in my RV for 6.5 years now,
always try to find a friendly RV tech where-ever I land for awhile. Haven't required
much in the way of fixin' but ... ya never know ...
Generally RVers will use the gray tanks load of liquid to flush out the hose to the
hole in the ground after emptying the black tank.
Learning the systems of your CT (RV), can be a fun thing, asking for advise is one
of the ways to keep it fun and not frustrating.

hank

PS Stealthy stops at just short of 18' of length after that it becomes "What the h*** is that for ???"

[Rainier70]

I would suggest that you also coat the roof with a solar reflective paint like Henry's Solar Flex. It makes a huge difference on summer temperatures.

[Mike S]

Looking forward to seeing your build! With your building experience it sounds like you'll be able to do something really nice. One thought I had when reading your spec sheet is that it could get very heavy if you're planning on building to residential specs. If you look at RV industry construction, the walls and furniture are framed with 1x1's as opposed to 2x4's or 2x6's. A lot of people think that makes them "cheap" but that's what keeps them at a reasonable weight.

For your electric, are you going to have any 12 volt DC circuits? Not having 12v will simplify your build. It looks like you're planning on mostly residential appliances so I guess you wont need 12v. For you 120 v AC wiring, do some research on 50 amp RV service. Most of the time RV's have an exterior shore power plug which is wired to the distribution box (circuit breaker). Many on this forum have gotten pretty exotic from there on. My CTC has 30 amp service. My RV distribution box handles both AC and DC circuits. I think the 50 amp RV's are the same. But if you don't need 12 volts, I guess you could use a standard household breaker box. I don't know the answers ...just trying to imagine what you're going to do.

Vents: I would plan on at least 3 roof vents, and possibly another if one of them is going to house your air conditioning. One for the bathroom, one for the kitchen, and another at the other end of the trailer. Have you looked at the capacities of roof air top conditionings? For an 8x30 trailer you're going to need a big one. It seems to me that many 30 foot RV's have two rooftop units.

Keep us up to date. This is gonna be a good one

[texaskreek06]

Mike S, Thanks for the info. I do not plan on having any DC, don't think I will have a need for it. Curious if you would explain yourself with needing so many roof vents? I have a 15,000 btu a/c w/ heat pump planned, a top of the line one from what I can tell. Also, Not sure if I understand room vents, but wouldn't they just hinder the cooling/heating process? As far as power, I had just planned on running 110 into a breaker and having my 50 amp cord hooked into my breaker out to my plug on the side of the building. Would you recommend running the wiring through pvc conduit or some type of conduit? Also, how much room did you have between your plywood walls and the exterior metal? Thanks

[texaskreek06]

I would suggest that you also coat the roof with a solar reflective paint like Henry's Solar Flex. It makes a huge difference on summer temperatures.

Thanks for the idea. I just looked that up. Seems like that will be a wise investment and money well spent. I have added it to the plans.

[Mike S]

Mike S, Thanks for the info. I do not plan on having any DC, don't think I will have a need for it. Curious if you would explain yourself with needing so many roof vents? I have a 15,000 btu a/c w/ heat pump planned, a top of the line one from what I can tell. Also, Not sure if I understand room vents, but wouldn't they just hinder the cooling/heating process? As far as power, I had just planned on running 110 into a breaker and having my 50 amp cord hooked into my breaker out to my plug on the side of the building. Would you recommend running the wiring through pvc conduit or some type of conduit? Also, how much room did you have between your plywood walls and the exterior metal? Thanks

I'm far from being an expert in any of these subjects including electric. One difference between RV and residential electric is that RV's need to be able to tolerate more vibration and probably more moisture than a home. I don't know if there's a nation code for RV electric but I think there are standards that the industry follows. You may want to look at how manufactures handle 50 amp service. They come up with some pretty clever ideas. In my trailer, I used stranded copper wire in favor of Romex/solid core because of superior vibration resistance. However, when I started looking at RV's and travel trailers, that's far from being standard. They normally use Romex. You could run your 50 amp cord from your breaker, through a hole, and out to your RV hook-up. That's pretty standard. I just mentioned another way to do it; have an inlet plug on your exterior. I like that design better than the concept of having to reel out a cord from a hole, but functionally there's probably no difference.

As far as vents go, I definitely say the more the better. The tight living quarters of a trailer tend to confine air, moisture, smoke, and smells. There are some excellent roof vent fans available that completely exchange the air in your coach in a matter of minutes. If you only have one vent in addition to your A/C, use a good vent fan. Again, I'm not expert, but a single 15000 BTU A/C sounds small for a trailer that size. Of course the degree of insulation and the outside temperatures are a variable.

As far as space within the wall, the ribs in my trailer are about 1.25 inches thick. Therefor that's how much space is between the inner side of the exterior sheet metal, and the outer side of the interior plywood. I think that's fairly standard, although your bigger trailer might have bigger ribs. I can't imagine they'd be any thicker than 1.5 inches though. Some folks on this forum have run their electric through that space. I chose to run all my electric inside the trailer within my "furniture". My trailer is much smaller though. If you're planning to run wire through the metal ribs, definitely have a plan for vibration and rubbing. Maybe conduit, maybe rubber grommets. I don't know. I don't think I'd use conduit in places where there's no chance of rubbing, but that's a personal preference. Another thought...most people put insulation within the walls. Will the insulation go around your wires?

Regards!

[texaskreek06]

Mike, I plan on using romex, which has its own insulation, however I wasn't sure if that would be enough. I plan on insulating everything and running the wire between, but maybe I'll run some pvc conduit. I definitly will add some vents. I have been seeing the Fan-Tastic around a lot lately, maybe I will put one of them in the bathroom and another on the other side of the CT from the A/C. That was one of the things I wasn't sure about. Thanks for the tips.... now If I could get a definite on plumbing I would feel about better.

[Mike S]

Mike, I plan on using romex, which has its own insulation, however I wasn't sure if that would be enough. I plan on insulating everything and running the wire between, but maybe I'll run some pvc conduit. I definitly will add some vents. I have been seeing the Fan-Tastic around a lot lately, maybe I will put one of them in the bathroom and another on the other side of the CT from the A/C. That was one of the things I wasn't sure about. Thanks for the tips.... now If I could get a definite on plumbing I would feel about better.

It sounds like your plumbing will be pretty easy. I used red and blue, 1/2 inch PEX piping, brass fittings, and steal crimps. That's essentially residential grade plumbing. In 12 months the system has been trouble free. I have a 35 gallon freshwater tank and 12 volt water pump as well as the option for a shore connection. In your case, it sounds like you'll just have a shore water. If you're using any RV fixtures (like an RV sink or showerhead) you'll need to control your water pressure with a pressure regulator because RV stuff is designed for 50 PSI or less. If you're using residential fixtures it's probably not an issue.

[texaskreek06]

Mike, I plan on using romex, which has its own insulation, however I wasn't sure if that would be enough. I plan on insulating everything and running the wire between, but maybe I'll run some pvc conduit. I definitly will add some vents. I have been seeing the Fan-Tastic around a lot lately, maybe I will put one of them in the bathroom and another on the other side of the CT from the A/C. That was one of the things I wasn't sure about. Thanks for the tips.... now If I could get a definite on plumbing I would feel about better.

It sounds like your plumbing will be pretty easy. I used red and blue, 1/2 inch PEX piping, brass fittings, and steal crimps. That's essentially residential grade plumbing. In 12 months the system has been trouble free. I have a 35 gallon freshwater tank and 12 volt water pump as well as the option for a shore connection. In your case, it sounds like you'll just have a shore water. If you're using any RV fixtures (like an RV sink or showerhead) you'll need to control your water pressure with a pressure regulator because RV stuff is designed for 50 PSI or less. If you're using residential fixtures it's probably not an issue.

Mike, I would like to not have to flush tanks, and my sewer is in the ground, in fact I will run a vertical pipe up just so I can access it and hook into it from the trailer. If I run just pipes to the sewer, do you see any reason why I might have issues? I think as long as I have gravity and a slope on my side it should function smoothly. I was originally going to install tanks for possible future use, but a member pointed out that once solids hit the tank they lose their flowing powers. So I was thinking of just using pipe, and then if I every needed tanks I could add them or use portable tanks. What are your thoughts?

I had planned on using all residential plumbing fixtures(low flow) and appliances.

I noticed is seams like Fan-tastic Vents and pretty much everything I have come across from on 12v DC power, any idea where I mind find something similar that will run on AC power?

Your insight has been more than appreciated!

[Mike S]

Mike, I plan on using romex, which has its own insulation, however I wasn't sure if that would be enough. I plan on insulating everything and running the wire between, but maybe I'll run some pvc conduit. I definitly will add some vents. I have been seeing the Fan-Tastic around a lot lately, maybe I will put one of them in the bathroom and another on the other side of the CT from the A/C. That was one of the things I wasn't sure about. Thanks for the tips.... now If I could get a definite on plumbing I would feel about better.

It sounds like your plumbing will be pretty easy. I used red and blue, 1/2 inch PEX piping, brass fittings, and steal crimps. That's essentially residential grade plumbing. In 12 months the system has been trouble free. I have a 35 gallon freshwater tank and 12 volt water pump as well as the option for a shore connection. In your case, it sounds like you'll just have a shore water. If you're using any RV fixtures (like an RV sink or showerhead) you'll need to control your water pressure with a pressure regulator because RV stuff is designed for 50 PSI or less. If you're using residential fixtures it's probably not an issue.

Mike, I would like to not have to flush tanks, and my sewer is in the ground, in fact I will run a vertical pipe up just so I can access it and hook into it from the trailer. If I run just pipes to the sewer, do you see any reason why I might have issues? I think as long as I have gravity and a slope on my side it should function smoothly. I was originally going to install tanks for possible future use, but a member pointed out that once solids hit the tank they lose their flowing powers. So I was thinking of just using pipe, and then if I every needed tanks I could add them or use portable tanks. What are your thoughts?

I had planned on using all residential plumbing fixtures(low flow) and appliances.

I noticed is seams like Fan-tastic Vents and pretty much everything I have come across from on 12v DC power, any idea where I mind find something similar that will run on AC power?

Your insight has been more than appreciated!

Your grey water can probably go right to the ground without needing a tank. I don't have a grey tank either. Use P-traps or one of these http://www.drainmaster.com/main/2012/02/01/hepvo-waterless-p-trap-how-big-is-it/ to prevent back drafts, so to speak. I don't know much about blackwater systems. I guess most RV's rely on using black holding tanks because, unlike residential toilets, a larger percentage of the waist in an RV toilet is in the solid form. So..relying solely on gravity to eliminate black water may be a problem because it doesn't flow as well. RV's use the grey water to flush the black tank. Who knows though, maybe you can engineer something to overcome the problem? It would be nice not to have any tanks if you don't need them, I agree.

I was pretty sure one of those vent-fan companies made a 120AC version but I couldn't find anything with a quick search.