CTC Build Thread - Mid-life crisis-mobile

[Padilen]

Nope.

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[flboy]

Ramp or doors. Can always keep them closed. Something hard to put in later and think of resale. For me.. got to have ramp for dirtbike, 4 wheeler or Kingpin. Don't limit your future options and never say never. ;-) . I learned that lesson.

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[sodatrain]

I've been working on my electrical design today. Having to learn the very basics - and found the most basic stuff on cheapRVliving.com to be helpful http://www.cheaprvliving.com/electrical/electricity/ but did I need 12V and 110? Or maybe not. Just how much solar etc.

I knew I'd have solar and batteries, but didn't really understand inverters, controllers etc. Thankfully it seems pretty simple to understand once you read a little. I find pictures go a long way!

I think after reading quite a bit I've settled on:

• Mostly 12V while reusing a portable inverter I already have in my truck to charge my laptop. I think everything else I need can be 12V. Maybe built in a couple 12V ports around the van. With 12V extension cords and splitters, I'm not too worried about it.
• 12V items: Fan, Fantastic Van Vents x2, LED lights, refrigerator.
• Thought about a TV and MAYBE even a play station but that's a lot of power, and I can use my laptop. PS4 for the kids... but that also seems to run a bit counter to the nature of the lifestyle I'm after anyway!
• Renolgy 200W kit on Amazon. Leaning towards the MPPT controller. 2 x AMG Batteries.
• Plenty of fuses where appropriate. A 15A external/shore power

Question: Should I bother trying to use my truck as a source of power for charging the batteries?

Ordering a trailer with ladder racks to mount the solar on. Thinking I'd like to find some way to semi-quick release them so I can park in the shade and run them from the sun. Mabye with adjustable angles too. I really want an AC but I'm learning how much cost and complexity that would add... so I'm gonna try and do without. Maybe just let temperature drive where I am more. I'm also curious to try one of those DIY Ice/cooler based contraptions to at least take the edge off. I run hot to begin with and dislike the heat.

Not electrical, but related... a Buddy propane heater and propane burner of some sort for cooking. Maybe that 12v oven someday if I'm feeling fancy!

[sodatrain]

Ramp or doors. Can always keep them closed. Something hard to put in later and think of resale. For me.. got to have ramp for dirtbike, 4 wheeler or Kingpin. Don't limit your future options and never say never. ;-) . I learned that lesson.

I'm deff reconsidering the door, the trailer size, and dual vs single axel. for resale mostly... I finally found a trailer dealer where the guy was patient and helpful and he persuaded me a bit.

Basically, he said:

• 7x14 is way more common - fits two bikes (which a 7x12 does too) but it has a little extra room
• w/o the ramp, you really cant load anything and what good is a trailer that size w/o a ramp unless you are using it for a camper trailer. Most times people will want to haul equipment.
• You can go single Axle, but you may need to watch the weight limit. Also, on a 7x12 or x14, SA, with an extended tongue, it can start to put pressure on the tongue.

so I keep looking at http://www.trailershowroom.com and I love their website and how you can see prices and hundreds of options and their prices... and it's maybe $700 more (or so) to go to a 7x14 Dual Axle instead of a 7x12 single. I could skip the V-nose ($400) as I'm getting the extra space and it's nearly a wash. Sounds like the V Nose helps some on gas but not tons. Seems like a 7x14 dual axel w/ ramp and w/o VNOSE is in my future.

[sodatrain]

aha! I've been googling around trying to find some good DIY Murphy bed plans that have some sort of hardware that doesn't require the purchasing of a kit... Finally found a video where the guy used boat seat hinges as the pivot point!

https://www.amazon.com/attwood-17720-Attwood-Boat-Swivel/dp/B001O0D6SI

should work well! I'ev seen other plans that use door hinges and that just seems flimsy! Build a box as a frame, one to hold them bed and bam!

[McDave]

That sounds like you got a pretty good education and some sage advice. I really can't comment as to the dual axle or extended tongue. I have no experience with those, however if you don't go with the v nose, regular tongue has room for LP, batteries etc. and should be ok as far as jacknife scenarios. I've never had a problem. I would highly recommend additional height, even 6" would make a big difference to average sized American males 6'0" 200lbs ish. Just that little extra would allow you feel like you can stand up straight. My head doesn't always hit but it feels like it will, so I slump down and it gets old fast. Also, your average home refrigerator would fit better standing up if moving, other furniture as well.
As far as your electrical set up I would recommend 12vdc and 120vac 30 amp to begin with and then add solar as budget permits. The most common way to do this is a power center like the WFCO8955 or PD4045. It will give you AC circuits that are breaker protected, DC circuits that are fuse protected, battery charging and 120 to 12v converter. Most common stuff like lights and pumps and fans are 12v, and if you need to run something 120v while not on shore power you can use an inverter. Otherwise you can run 12v when on shore power and charge battery, and charge from tow vehicle and from a generator. When you get solar you will have a battery bank that can all be charged the same ways plus solar. Solar is an investment and a major upgrade. But it allows you be autonomous almost anywhere. That is priceless.
Just my thoughts.

McDave

[sodatrain]

That sounds like you got a pretty good education and some sage advice. I really can't comment as to the dual axle or extended tongue. I have no experience with those, however if you don't go with the v nose, regular tongue has room for LP, batteries etc. and should be ok as far as jacknife scenarios. I've never had a problem. I would highly recommend additional height, even 6" would make a big difference to average sized American males 6'0" 200lbs ish. Just that little extra would allow you feel like you can stand up straight. My head doesn't always hit but it feels like it will, so I slump down and it gets old fast. Also, your average home refrigerator would fit better standing up if moving, other furniture as well.

Extra height for sure! I'm 6'6" so def a 7'+ situation. I think the continental cargo is 6'9" to begin with but I'll still add 6"

As far as your electrical set up I would recommend 12vdc and 120vac 30 amp to begin with and then add solar as budget permits. The most common way to do this is a power center like the WFCO8955 or PD4045. It will give you AC circuits that are breaker protected, DC circuits that are fuse protected, battery charging and 120 to 12v converter. Most common stuff like lights and pumps and fans are 12v, and if you need to run something 120v while not on shore power you can use an inverter. Otherwise you can run 12v when on shore power and charge battery, and charge from tow vehicle and from a generator. When you get solar you will have a battery bank that can all be charged the same ways plus solar. Solar is an investment and a major upgrade. But it allows you be autonomous almost anywhere. That is priceless.
Just my thoughts.

ok... just to make sure I understand this... something like the PD4045 ( helpful video here:https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/power-centers/inteli-power-4000-series/) would be the main panel/center point of my electrical system and it provides three main things:

• Breakers for 120VAC power (these end up in line between the batteries and the wall outlet). Helps centralize the wiring as well as provide protection.
• Fuses for 12V Power (these end up in line in between the battery and any directly connected or thru a 12v adapter). Helps centralize/distribute the 12V power as well as provide protection.
• Is a charge controller for the batteries to help best charge and protect the batteries.

Questions:

• Would using this panel, and specifically feature #3, then remove the need for the charge controller that would come with the Solar Kit I was looking at? (https://www.renogy.com/renogy-200-watt-12-volt-solar-starter-kit/)
• I'd still need to purchase and install an inverter between the batteries and the 110VAC circuits in the PD4045, Right?
• When i'm ready to add solar panels, they would feed into the controller portion of the PD4045. Right? And would shore power/generator hook into the controller too? Basically all sources of power into the controller which manages the charging of the batteries. The DC hangs off the batteries directly (perhaps thru this device to facilitate consolidation and protecting with fuses and the AC outlets would be wired to the breakers which have an inverter upstream (not included in PD4045) which is connected to the batteries too.

Here is a drawging I just made to try and capture what I think I understand and what my questions were getting at:

[McDave]

Solar will require its own charge controller, preferably MPPT as that will make the most of available sunlight and generally are smarter as far as battery conditioning. You may need a transfer switch but again most MPPT's handle this automatically.
If you want to produce 120vac from 12vdc you will need a separate inverter. The power centers have a converter which produces 12vdc from 120vac. A separate function is the charger. Both the PD4045 and the WFCO8955 have quite sophisticated battery charging and conditioning programs.
I believe solar charger may bypass power center and go direct to battery bank, which is tied to DC side of power center.
AC shore power and generator use the same 30 amp main. A transfer switch here can be a good idea, I just plug into one or the other. Your drawing is a pretty darn accurate picture of what goes on. I only have 2 AC outlets wired to inverter, 1 inside, 1 outside. I have never used them as I have only a single deep cycle 125ah battery currently and I have generator on board for charging and Air Conditioner. My refer is 12v/120v, TV 12v, stereo 12v, all lights led 12v, pump and fan 12v. If I need to use a drill or saw I just fire genny and charge and cool at same time.
It sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of electrical systems, The reason I like power centers is the "all (most) in one" ability as opposed to separate components to do the same job. They are really quite reasonable at about $150-200

McDave

[sodatrain]

Just ordered my trailer from Chris @ http://trailershowroom.com!!!! Chris was very helpful, responsive, and very patient with my oodles of questions.

I think the leadtime is about 10 weeks. Cant wait!

Here is my quote for reference - it's all on their website!

[flboy]

Transfer switch between the inverter and shore/gen and then to the AC circuits is needed unless you will be running separate AC circuits. The Gen and Shore input should be one in the same to the panel ( mutually exclusive between shore and gen).

Also, then, converter needs to be isolated from inverter power when running from batteries else you will have a degenerative loop situation.

Following are my schematics for reference only. I may have tweaked some DC breakers sizes since this drawing; however, the system functions great. Very happy with results.

I did not use an all in one panel for various reasons; however, functionally, it works the same way, just modular components to fit my specifics and customization.

All in one power centers simply combine the converter/ battery charger, DC fuses and Distribution, and AC breakers in a nice clean box and makes the appropriate internal connections to get AC power to the converter. Will save some time wiring, especially if you are unsure of your wiring skills. You will need a separate transfer switch, inverter, and solar controller as a minimum to go with this and a few shunts/meters if you want to monitor what goes on.

Depending on your needs, you may even need a separate main from the power center if you want to ensure some things do not try run off the inverter depending on the size of inverter and other choices. This is also the best way to ensure the converter is not running off the inverter also. (It appears the PD4000 Series does have a separate AC in to power the converter so that can be accommodated). Just food for thought .





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[flboy]

Congrats on the trailer. I ordered my trailer from the same factory middleman outfit. It worked out well for me. My trailer was branded as a Lark.

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[sodatrain]

Transfer switch between the inverter and shore/gen and then to the AC circuits is needed unless you will be running separate AC circuits.

<snip>

Following are my schematics for reference only. I may have tweaked some DC breakers sizes since this drawing; however, the system functions great. Very happy with results.

I did not use an all in one panel for various reasons; however, functionally, it works the same way, just modular components to fit my specifics and customization.

<snip>

Wow! Great info and I'll deff use your image as a reference and build my own modeled after that!

[sodatrain]

Next Up: detailed design of interior while I wait for the trailer to be built! Approx lead time is 10 weeks... I'm planning on launching 5/1 so hopefully, things go smoothly and quickly!

Im building in the bed system, benches, cabinets with actual dimensions. I need make some decisions about how much insulation to include. I'm deff using this in the summer, and I'd like to be prepared to use it in the winter in snow (I like to ski and snowboard). I also run hot usually (Well insulated plus just hot) and I'm not planning on AC out of the gate... which makes me nervous. Only so much budget tho. I will have two fantastic fans. 3/8" ply on walls and 3/4" on floor.

I'm thinking:

* 1 or 2" on the floor on top of plywood, plus some form of laminate flooring. So probably max 1.5 - 2.5" of space consumed.
* 2" inches on walls - 1" in gaps in between metal studs, and then another inch on top of that. The 3/8" ply on top of that. I think think it's decent plywood so I'll prime/paint that to a nice finish.
* 1-3"? On Ceiling. I'm hot and I don't want to be hot in the summer. I'm prepared to try a DIY cooler/AC sort of unit. I'll have 2x fantastic fans. I'm thinking about mounting solar panels in such a way that they can be semi-easily removed so I can put em in the sun and park in the shade.

Does anyone have any data or other input that can help me decide specifically on the ceiling? 2" seems reasonable. Will 3" help keep it cooler? How much?

What about floor? 1" or 2"

Thanks in advance!

[Iconfabul8]

I'm not planning on AC out of the gate... which makes me nervous. Only so much budget tho. I will have two fantastic fans.

Not sure I follow the logic here. A window AC unit cost about the same as a fantastic fan. Why do you need two fans, rather than one fan and one AC unit?

[sodatrain]

I'm not planning on AC out of the gate... which makes me nervous. Only so much budget tho. I will have two fantastic fans.

Not sure I follow the logic here. A window AC unit cost about the same as a fantastic fan. Why do you need two fans, rather than one fan and one AC unit?

Hmm. I was looking at the roof mounted AC to avoid cutting thru the walls myself. I also don't expect to be near shore power much and didn't want to try and run it off solar/batteries. Maybe a portable on solar/battery in the future?

Two fantastic fans just to make sure lots of air flow. Maybe one in and one out.


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