Ideas on A/C and heat

[Indiana Rambler]

So we are thinking about going the the way of a window unit for our build. I plan to build a custom tongue box on the front of our trailer/camper. I used the ramp that was with the trailer and cut it in half, and welded to the tongue. My intensions are to be able to mount the a/c unit to the floor of the ramp/mount, hang the rear of the unit through the outside wall of the tongue box. This way, when the a/c sweats or leaks somehow, the condensation would just fall through the floor. I was just wondering if this would be sufficient air around the unit to make it run efficiently. I plan to make the unit as Shadow Catcher had in his thread by making the front transition, and routing the cold air and return through the front of the camper. I don’t really want to have the unit protrude too far out of the wall, mainly for aesthetic reasons, but if we have to do that, so be it. Any thoughts on my silly idea?



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[tony.latham]

Fortunately, we live and camp in the Rockies and thus don't need A/C. So I don't have the answer for you.

But... I have always admired how Tim Curry, aka noseoil did his A/C.

https://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=60248

I'm sure your tongue box idea would work if you could prop the lid up while it's running to avoid heat becoming trapped in it.

Tony

[Tom&Shelly]

I think your idea will work. That iron grate floor should help ventilation.

FWIW, here are some pictures of how we did our Climatright. I was nervous about that front cargo door taking rocks, but it's done okay so far. We open that door when running the AC and seems to be enough. I designed it so we could open the side cargo door as well, but found it isn't necessary.





The AC has a drain pipe at the bottom. I drilled a hole in the floor and attached a hose, but we still get water in the utility compartment. I don't know if the hose pulled out or the AC drips other places besides out the pipe. When the weather warms up, before we head out this Spring, I'll redesign it with a drip pan under the unit. We traveled in the muggy midwest and northeast, and got a lot of water out of the air. Not something to neglect! (Should be high quality distilled water, if we recovered it and stored it somehow. Too bad we seldom use our iron in the wilderness. )

Oh, for the AC, we found it works better to disconnect that return hose and take the air right from the outside. Otherwise, the unit freezes up after an hour or so.

Tom

[Indiana Rambler]

I think your idea will work. That iron grate floor should help ventilation.

FWIW, here are some pictures of how we did our Climatright. I was nervous about that front cargo door taking rocks, but it's done okay so far. We open that door when running the AC and seems to be enough. I designed it so we could open the side cargo door as well, but found it isn't necessary.





The AC has a drain pipe at the bottom. I drilled a hole in the floor and attached a hose, but we still get water in the utility compartment. I don't know if the hose pulled out or the AC drips other places besides out the pipe. When the weather warms up, before we head out this Spring, I'll redesign it with a drip pan under the unit. We traveled in the muggy midwest and northeast, and got a lot of water out of the air. Not something to neglect! (Should be high quality distilled water, if we recovered it and stored it somehow. Too bad we seldom use our iron in the wilderness. )

Oh, for the AC, we found it works better to disconnect that return hose and take the air right from the outside. Otherwise, the unit freezes up after an hour or so.

Tom

Great info! This helps immensely!


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[mnjeepguy]

I don't have a trailer yet, but it is being built. When thinking of heat and A/c, I consider the conditions I have tent camped in.

Regarding heat:
One miserably cold night I had a 50 degree bag and a tent. Forecast was way off and it dropped into the 20s. I was uncomfortable, but better planning and I would have been fine. Been into the 30s a few times with better bags and such, in a tent. With the trailer inherently being more insulated, and better bedding...I don't expect my travels to need heat. If they do, I will get a diesel heater since it will be rare use and likely away from shore power.

Regarding A/C:
This may get interesting. I've tent camped in 100+ degree weather. It's not great. The insulation of the trailer might make this worse. I will have two windows and a Maxx fan (bidirectional). Fingers crossed that is enough.

[mtbikernate]

I don't have a trailer yet, but it is being built. When thinking of heat and A/c, I consider the conditions I have tent camped in.

Regarding heat:
One miserably cold night I had a 50 degree bag and a tent. Forecast was way off and it dropped into the 20s. I was uncomfortable, but better planning and I would have been fine. Been into the 30s a few times with better bags and such, in a tent. With the trailer inherently being more insulated, and better bedding...I don't expect my travels to need heat. If they do, I will get a diesel heater since it will be rare use and likely away from shore power.

Regarding A/C:
This may get interesting. I've tent camped in 100+ degree weather. It's not great. The insulation of the trailer might make this worse. I will have two windows and a Maxx fan (bidirectional). Fingers crossed that is enough.

I saw in another thread that you've got a Hiker on order. I've had one for almost 5yrs.

When I ordered mine, I expected that I would find a need for A/C. That has not been the case. I've had MORE of a need for heat in shoulder seasons where it gets up into the 50s-70s during the day, but drops down to or even below freezing at night.

So far, when on shore power, I've just used an electric blanket to supplement and that helps, though only so much.

When off-grid, condensation is an issue since I'm buttoning things up really tight, even above freezing but still with cooler nighttime temps. If I ventilate heavily to keep condensation down, I get a very notable COLD breeze inside which makes it feel a lot colder inside than out.

I'd love to get a propex, and one has been on my list for awhile. But I've got so many different things to address that I think I'm going to start with a diesel heater and an external in-a-box type install. I got the A/C prep from Hiker, and that makes it pretty easy to plumb in the heater. That way, I can do a propex install later and not need to undo a bunch of stuff.

I think a couple factors are important with my lack of need for A/C. First off, I got my trailer built in white, which reflects the sun's energy during the daytime. I've parked my trailer in direct sun on some pretty danged hot trips and have been surprised at how cool it stays inside with no fan, and only windows open. I also try to park in some shade when I can. I also did get the MaxxFan upgrade from Hiker. That fan moves a lot of air, and on warm/humid nights it definitely helps keep things manageable inside.

I find tents in the heat to be a LOT more uncomfortable. The fabric radiates heat in a bad way. I was absolutely blown away when checking out popup trailers on a warm (but not really what I'd call hot), sunny day, at how horribly uncomfortable they were compared to the solid trailers I visited in the same weather. None had A/C actively running, but the popup trailers truly needed it.

[mnjeepguy]

I saw in another thread that you've got a Hiker on order. I've had one for almost 5yrs.

When I ordered mine, I expected that I would find a need for A/C. That has not been the case. I've had MORE of a need for heat in shoulder seasons where it gets up into the 50s-70s during the day, but drops down to or even below freezing at night.

So far, when on shore power, I've just used an electric blanket to supplement and that helps, though only so much.

When off-grid, condensation is an issue since I'm buttoning things up really tight, even above freezing but still with cooler nighttime temps. If I ventilate heavily to keep condensation down, I get a very notable COLD breeze inside which makes it feel a lot colder inside than out.

I'd love to get a propex, and one has been on my list for awhile. But I've got so many different things to address that I think I'm going to start with a diesel heater and an external in-a-box type install. I got the A/C prep from Hiker, and that makes it pretty easy to plumb in the heater. That way, I can do a propex install later and not need to undo a bunch of stuff.

I think a couple factors are important with my lack of need for A/C. First off, I got my trailer built in white, which reflects the sun's energy during the daytime. I've parked my trailer in direct sun on some pretty danged hot trips and have been surprised at how cool it stays inside with no fan, and only windows open. I also try to park in some shade when I can. I also did get the MaxxFan upgrade from Hiker. That fan moves a lot of air, and on warm/humid nights it definitely helps keep things manageable inside.

I find tents in the heat to be a LOT more uncomfortable. The fabric radiates heat in a bad way. I was absolutely blown away when checking out popup trailers on a warm (but not really what I'd call hot), sunny day, at how horribly uncomfortable they were compared to the solid trailers I visited in the same weather. None had A/C actively running, but the popup trailers truly needed it.

My first question. Would you order the hiker again? I looked and complaints seem pretty low, so I am hopeful.

The heat/vs cool thing may be interesting. I ordered mine in charcoal, and later wondered if that will be an issue in summer. The roof is white...so that should help in hotter times. Maybe I can use it to my advantage on cooler days with sun. I did get the Maxx fan as well. Right with you on the little diesel heater in a box. My plan is the same if I feel I need one. Box makes it useful/easy to remove. I have to see if I use it in cold weather enough to dump a grand into a propex. I'll have a German heater with me by default. It's the Shepherd model

[mtbikernate]

My first question. Would you order the hiker again? I looked and complaints seem pretty low, so I am hopeful.

The heat/vs cool thing may be interesting. I ordered mine in charcoal, and later wondered if that will be an issue in summer. The roof is white...so that should help in hotter times. Maybe I can use it to my advantage on cooler days with sun. I did get the Maxx fan as well. Right with you on the little diesel heater in a box. My plan is the same if I feel I need one. Box makes it useful/easy to remove. I have to see if I use it in cold weather enough to dump a grand into a propex. I'll have a German heater with me by default. It's the Shepherd model

There are things I like and things I don't.

The squaredrop shape makes it very hard to use the galley as an actual kitchen. I've seen some folks who have done it, but the rear door often gets in the way one way or the other, IMO. So mine pretty much just gets used for storage. Which means pulling my "kitchen" setup out of the camper to use it. A more traditional teardrop shape allows for a vertical opening door that lets you use the galley as an actual kitchen. Which theoretically means less to pull out/tear down in camp.

On the other side of it, that storage is pretty handy! Almost all my camping gear lives inside my Hiker full-time, so when it is time to get ready for a trip, I pretty much only need to pack food and water, my clothes, and any extras I want to use while I'm out - bikes, canoe, hiking gear, whatever. Almost 5yrs in and I'm still playing with organizing stuff most effectively and efficiently, though.

I wish I had done more research about various options before I ordered mine, though. Back when I placed my order, Hiker had fewer listed build options and a LOT of what they did was custom one-off stuff if you requested it. The midrange model was basically experimental at the time, and my use scenario has changed a bit such that I think that would suit me best. I didn't get it because it added a little bit of weight and I was towing with a subaru at the time. So now I get to have the headache of making changes to the wheels and tires to get most of the function of the midrange model. I wish I had chosen an articulating hitch. There have been enough times backing into an uneven boondock site that it would have been handy.

I may have chosen a propex right at the start if I had known they even existed.

I probably would have chosen exterior lights by the doors if it was something I had considered.

Mine was an early model with a single light in the galley. I wish it had more/different lights back there.

If I had known compressor fridges existed, I might have asked to have the camper prepped for one with a hatch on the passenger side for a slide.

I've made some small mods/changes to mine to account for some of those things. My original battery died right about on time, and I upgraded to a 100Ah LiFePO4 battery and added a main cutoff switch. I also built a fridge slide into the galley to accommodate a Dometic CFX3 55IM fridge that I found at the local REI garage sale (also wired in the fridge and some extra USB ports in the galley). I'm still not totally finished with the mods related to the fridge slide. Because the fridge slide blocks off some access to parts of my galley storage, I'm working on cutting some new access hatches inside so that space is more accessible. Also a couple little interior adds like some storage baskets and cupholders. Replaced the USB ports with 3.0A fast charging-capable ports.

On the note of diesel heaters, I was doing some research on power consumption to see how much time I could get out of one and I'm not terribly pleased.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfdkfbCild8[/youtube]

Considering that I already have a fridge as my main draw, and right now only a 40W solar panel, I don't think I have enough capacity to run a diesel heater for very long off-grid. Especially in a less-than-ideal scenario and more than a night or two. Next month I'll be out for a few nights definitely with no power. It's the time of year in my area where you just can't predict what the weather will be.

Now I'm second-guessing the diesel heater...at least for now. The battery itself is fine, I think. But I need more solar capacity. I was thinking I'd start with adding a 100W panel and just getting a controller with the capacity to maybe add more later. But now I think it might be better for me to just get 200W from the start (with upgrade capacity).

Start off with a basic 12v heated blanket (fairly efficient for heat from what I have read) in the meantime and save my beans for a propex. And deal with condensation for a little longer. I've seen power consumption figures for the propex heaters, and they're a lot more efficient than the chinese diesels (esp startup sequence). Hell, even the Planar diesels are better on power than the chinese ones. But a Planar costs about the same as a Propex. If I'm going to spend that much, it'll be propane because I am already carrying that fuel.

[featherliteCT1]

My Chinese diesel heater averages about 2 amps per hour, over an eight hour period, when it is about 30 degrees outside. So, about 16 total amps over an eight hour period.

[mtbikernate]

My Chinese diesel heater averages about 2 amps per hour, over an eight hour period, when it is about 30 degrees outside. So, about 16 total amps over an eight hour period.

what's the output on your heater? I've seen 'em range from 2kw to 8kw. From a soot buildup standpoint, it seems better for the heater to be a little undersized. But that means a higher power draw while it's actively running. I'm not entirely clear what size my trailer would need, which has a decent amount of space inside.

At the same temp range, my fridge supposedly uses 9.6 amps over 8hrs (that figure includes the ice maker being on, which I don't always use). Though of course the fridge is on 24/7. Heating the interior, where the fridge is located, will probably increase the power draw, I'd bet. That's half my battery in one day and one night of use, at least. Not counting lights, charging, etc. Maybe don't need the MaxxFan running while the heater is pushing air around, but that's a pretty minor power draw comparatively.

Fine if all I was asking it to do was a single overnight. But any more than that, and more solar is def necessary. reinforces my more recent conclusion that I need to add the solar before I buy the heater.

[featherliteCT1]

mtbikernate,


Diesel Heater. The Chinese diesel heaters come in two sizes; 2k and 5k. My understanding is that 2k models are very hard to come by and that most of the Chinese units advertised as 2k (or 7k) are, in fact, 5k models.

I have been running my 5k model on straight kerosene for three years running with the controller unit tuned to OEM specs resulting in zero soot build up; with no maintenance required, so far. I spent a lot of time researching these heaters and the consensus of knowledgeable installers is that the sooting problem is due to either poor installation or improper programming of the controller. However, annual cleaning of the glow plug and diffuser screen is recommended. Using proper shut down procedures is also highly recommend to prevent soot build up; i.e., by running the heater on high for seven minutes before shutting the unit off, to burn out any carbon deposits and unburned fuel.

I have a well insulated 7x16 trailer. The 5k model on the lowest setting will produce more heat than I handle can. However, the good news is that the problem is easily solved by opening a window, which is a good thing because the fresh air is nice.

Maxx Fan. My Maxx Fan has ten speeds. On settings 1, 6 and 10, it draws .2, 1 and 3 amps per hour, respectively. These numbers were ascertained using an accurate battery monitor. The manufacturer’s spec sheet says the fan uses a bit less current than what I just posted.

The above is just my experience.
Hope this helps some.

[John61CT]

There is no such unit as "amps per hour" or at least it is very ambiguous

Amps are already a flow rate that includes a "per time unit".

Ah "amp hours" are the correct unit for a static quantity of energy, capacity of storage and also required when you want to indicate energy usage over a period of time, so

Ah per min/hr/day is correct

while amps per min/hr/day makes little sense.

...

X amps as an average flow rate **for** Y hours, so yes a bit like multiplication

40A for 15min = 10Ah

[featherliteCT1]

Hmmm, all my manuals talk about amp hours assuming that one knows what they mean. Some people make pedantic comments about this matter for reasons unknown to me.

[John61CT]

Yes amp hours is correct, Ah.

It is important to get such details right for clarity, especially for noobs just starting to figure this stuff out.

Few loads maintain a constant amps rate

[MickinOz]

John61CT, I do believe that, just this once, I agree with you.

To me this is not pedantry.

"2 amps per hour" means nothing.
On the other hand, 2Ah in a given length of time tells you how long you can expect your battery to last, or how long to a given depth of discharge, etc.

These days, I simply use the piece of equipment through the load circuit on my Renogy controller. It tells me at anytime how many Ah I have used since it was turned on.