A Lite weight for a escort

[Miriam C.]

I built my walls out of 3/8" Baltic Birch and it is stable as can be. For the ceiling I used 1/8 birch and it is 11 lbs per 4'x8' sheet. Not much.

Look forward to seeing the results.

[schaney]

Bob, from my quick search an Escort looks to have a 1000 lb tow capacity.

I'm a believer in "softsided" trailers as a way to maximize size and minimize weight. Our Explorer Boxes weigh under 400 lbs with almost a 5' x 8' bed area.




Was your post misplaced or is it really on off-road Escort?

[Bobjr59]

It was in the wrong section the Escort sits to low to the ground I'm looking into all plans I can find I also considered building a box on a HFTR Using the same ideal that some niebors built back in the late 60's they built a box that sat in the pick ups bed and using a cabin tent fixed to the box with the two parts of the floor which folds over when in open position it pulls the tent into position and all you do is secure the base and you set the center poles and so on I just wish I knew where they got the plans but your's is very nice where did you get your plans???

[schaney]

Sounds like you're talking about a Heilite style tent trailer.

Don't know of any plans for them, although there is tons of info/pictures at SingleWheel.com

I designed the Explorer Box and wrote the construction manual/plans for it, check out Compact Camping Concepts

[brian_bp]

The 1997 Escort manual specifies the 1000 lb trailer limit which is typical for passenger cars, without any dependence on which engine or transmission options the specific car might have.

You must also stay within the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR, total of car and trailer and everything in them)... but this particular manual doesn't even mention that term. The challenge is: when you tow 1000 lb of trailer, how much passenger and cargo load are you allowed at the same time? When I asked Ford about this for my Focus (which has the same limit), they said that the effective GCWR is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) plus 1000 lb... meaning that (in the case of a Focus) the whole 1000 lb of trailer is okay to pull in combination with any passengers and cargo which the car can handle normally (counting the tongue weight as car cargo).

So I suppose you could go all the way to the 1000 lb limit if the rating is like the Focus, but lighter is always better for the car. It's not like any Escort is a serious hauling machine, and in 1997 they all had a relatively short wheelbase and long rear overhang, both of which are undesirable for trailer towing stability.

[bigalpha]

There's no way I'd tow anymore than 500# with an Escort. My old escort had trouble catching up to itself, much less towing an extra 500-750#.

Make sure your rear suspension is in really good shape. Ford's rear springs were known to break causing serious droopage. Add a trailer to that and you've either 1. Hit the bumpstops or 2. ripped off your axle.

Good luck.

[brian_bp]

I think it should be accepted as a given that any rig approaching the Escort's safe or reliable towing limit is not going to be quick. My Focus is fine even with a full cargo load, and one of the engines for the Focus is the same on as the 1997 Escort (the 2.0 SPI); however, I have the Zetec engine instead (same size but more power). Also, a trailer is worse for performance than the same weight of cargo in the car, because of the additional air drag and usually inferior tires.

On the other hand, Don (Alphacarina) has reported that he happily tows with a Mazda Protege 5, which also has a 2.0 L four cylinder... of course it's a Mazda engine, not the Ford SPI. For a closer comparison, Terry and Lisa (07rascal) tow with a Focus... it's even an automatic, but again it would be the more powerful Ford engine (in their case a Duratec, but like my Zetec).

Hmm... maybe that Escort is going to be slow.

[brian_bp]

Make sure your rear suspension is in really good shape. Ford's rear springs were known to break causing serious droopage. Add a trailer to that and you've either 1. Hit the bumpstops or 2. ripped off your axle.

Whether the rear axle load comes from a trailer or cargo, it is important to not exceed the suspension's capacity. I checked the rear axle load of my tug - with and without trailer, loaded and unloaded - on a scale when preparing to tow... I suggest that everyone should do that. The rear axle rating will be listed (as GAWR-rear) on the door jamb or door edge sticker.

The wheelbase and rear overhang combination will make the hitch weight affect the axle load a lot. My guess is that the ball will be about 42" behind the rear axle, so with a 98.4" wheelbase the Escort is like a lever pivoting on the rear axle and with the distance to the ball 43% of the distance to the front axle. That means that 100 lb (for example) on the hitch would pry 43 lb off the front tires, and put 143 lb on the rear axle... that needs to be considered in the load the rear axle is asked to carry. Of course, there should be no need to go as high as 100 lb of tongue weight on such a small trailer. Low hitch weight is a good thing for a short and light car.

[bigalpha]

The idea I was trying to get across is that you would be putting a lot of extra strain and stress on your drivetrain, especially for an underpowered car that's not really made for towing. You start pushing that baby up a hill and you'll strain that drivetrain even more. At any rate, it's just a thought.

If you were a good fabricator, you could always add another wheel at the tongue of the trailer. Similar to the extra tires big dump trucks have to keep the frame from bending all the way to the road.

[brian_bp]

The idea I was trying to get across is that you would be putting a lot of extra strain and stress on your drivetrain, especially for an underpowered car that's not really made for towing. You start pushing that baby up a hill and you'll strain that drivetrain even more. At any rate, it's just a thought.

I agree, adding a bunch of load works the drivetrain harder, which is why those towing limits exist. To be fair to the Escort, Ford does say "1000 lb" in the Escort manual, not (as many do) "do not tow". Even though my Focus and Terry & Lisa's have a different engine and transmission from Bob's car, the base or earlier Focus has the same engine/transmission as the 1997 Escort, and there shouldn't be a huge difference in durability.

If you were a good fabricator, you could always add another wheel at the tongue of the trailer. Similar to the extra tires big dump trucks have to keep the frame from bending all the way to the road.

Those extra tires on big dump trucks are on beam axles, like the tag axle of buses and big motorhomes, and I don't believe that they are there for the sake of the frame; they are there to meet legal limitations on the weight which can be carried on each tire or axle to limit road damage. They don't use them unless they have to; the buses and motorhomes only have them if the rear axle would have insufficient capcity by itself. The wheels on an extended frame behind a cement mixer are the same idea.

Those axles are as close as possible to the main axle and are in a very different situation dynamically than something right under the hitch. Adding a caster wheel under the tongue is a bad plan for control, and if the purpose is to reduce hitch weight then it makes more sense to just balance the trailer properly.

My example used 100 lb of hitch weight; I hope that's the outside limit and the design target would be lower, but even that 100 lb should not be a problem for an Escort to support, any more than the car would have a problem with 120 lb in the middle of the trunk.

[bigalpha]

The idea I was trying to get across is that you would be putting a lot of extra strain and stress on your drivetrain, especially for an underpowered car that's not really made for towing. You start pushing that baby up a hill and you'll strain that drivetrain even more. At any rate, it's just a thought.

I agree, adding a bunch of load works the drivetrain harder, which is why those towing limits exist. To be fair to the Escort, Ford does say "1000 lb" in the Escort manual, not (as many do) "do not tow". Even though my Focus and Terry & Lisa's have a different engine and transmission from Bob's car, the base or earlier Focus has the same engine/transmission as the 1997 Escort, and there shouldn't be a huge difference in durability.

If you were a good fabricator, you could always add another wheel at the tongue of the trailer. Similar to the extra tires big dump trucks have to keep the frame from bending all the way to the road.

Those extra tires on big dump trucks are on beam axles, like the tag axle of buses and big motorhomes, and I don't believe that they are there for the sake of the frame; they are there to meet legal limitations on the weight which can be carried on each tire or axle to limit road damage. They don't use them unless they have to; the buses and motorhomes only have them if the rear axle would have insufficient capcity by itself. The wheels on an extended frame behind a cement mixer are the same idea.

Those axles are as close as possible to the main axle and are in a very different situation dynamically than something right under the hitch. Adding a caster wheel under the tongue is a bad plan for control, and if the purpose is to reduce hitch weight then it makes more sense to just balance the trailer properly.

My example used 100 lb of hitch weight; I hope that's the outside limit and the design target would be lower, but even that 100 lb should not be a problem for an Escort to support, any more than the car would have a problem with 120 lb in the middle of the trunk.

I'm not sure if dumptruck specs vary across the region, but that extra set of wheels on the ones around here only contact the road as the rig is loaded and the frame bends. I'm sure it helps with DOT regs, but It's there primarily to keep the frame from becoming a taco.

While supporting 100lbs on the hitch is no problem, if you are having to drag a trailer that weighs 500# up a hill, you've got serious strain. I know the escort can do it, as I've seen it done. I wouldn't do it in mine, however.

[brian_bp]

If you were a good fabricator, you could always add another wheel at the tongue of the trailer. Similar to the extra tires big dump trucks have to keep the frame from bending all the way to the road.

Those extra tires on big dump trucks are on beam axles, like the tag axle of buses and big motorhomes, and I don't believe that they are there for the sake of the frame; they are there to meet legal limitations on the weight which can be carried on each tire or axle to limit road damage. They don't use them unless they have to; the buses and motorhomes only have them if the rear axle would have insufficient capcity by itself. The wheels on an extended frame behind a cement mixer are the same idea.

Those axles are as close as possible to the main axle and are in a very different situation dynamically than something right under the hitch. Adding a caster wheel under the tongue is a bad plan for control, and if the purpose is to reduce hitch weight then it makes more sense to just balance the trailer properly.

I'm not sure if dumptruck specs vary across the region, but that extra set of wheels on the ones around here only contact the road as the rig is loaded and the frame bends. I'm sure it helps with DOT regs, but It's there primarily to keep the frame from becoming a taco.

Hmm... I may have misunderstood. I was picturing a pusher axle (like the one below from Wikipedia, and used on their Axlepage), which is normally lifted when not needed, and lowered when needed (due to the combination of load onboard and road limits). Something which comes into contact as the frame bends sounds downright scary to me, but maybe some places have "interesting" trucks on the road that we don't see here.

The above photo shows a normal pusher axle; when it is down, it essentially makes the tandem rear axle set into a tridem (but with one axle not driven)... a similar wheel at the tongue of a trailer is not rationally an extension of the trailer axle set.

There's another possiblity: some motorhomes which are too heavy for their rear axle, and yet too cheap to have a premium suspension system, have a tag axle (dead axle behind the rear drive axle) which is set a little higher than the drive axle. Under light loads, the tag may not even touch the ground, but as load is added and the drive axle suspension compresses, the tag's tires touch down and take some of the load; no bending of the frame is involved. This would be like adding a little axle under the Escort's trunk which only touches down when the hitch weight is added... not a desirable thing, but it would relieve rear axle overloading (and replace it with a structural and handling nightmare).

[bigalpha]

Yeah, that's pretty much what the trucks here look like. However, whenever that axle is on the ground, the frame of the truck is noticably bowed downwards.

Maybe I'm a tard Everytime I've noticed the tires on the ground, the frame is bent. I just figured that the axle was permanently mounted to the frame. Learn something new everyday.

Instead of mounting a whole 'nother axle underneath the rear, why not just one tire that would pivot and turn with the car?

[brian_bp]

... Instead of mounting a whole 'nother axle underneath the rear, why not just one tire that would pivot and turn with the car?

Turn with what? If an extra wheel is attached to the car, it would need to not steer (and scrub a lot), or caster freely (a control problem), or be linked to the car's steering (big hassle). If an extra wheel is attached to the trailer tongue, it would need to not steer (huge scrub problem), or caster freely (a control problem), or have a steering link to the car (a interesting linkage design challenge). It really is easier to balance the trailer properly and use a suitable tow vehicle; in the case of the Escort, it's already suitable for the hitch weight which goes with the size of trailer which the engine and transmission can handle.

Any possible add-on gadget is either a big compromise or quite heavy, complex, and expensive. There's a reason that add-ons are not widely used, although a few are available.

If hitch load is a really big concern - and keep in mind that it should not be so for the Escort with reasonable planning - then a four-wheeled trailer with a steered front axle is the solution... except that it's probably not legal to tow in most places. This configuration has been discussed here before, e.g. Tow vehical questions

[brian_bp]

Yeah, that's pretty much what the trucks here look like. However, whenever that axle is on the ground, the frame of the truck is noticably bowed downwards...

Scary stuff. Now I need to look more closely at the frames of pusher-axled gravel trucks as I drive past them... or maybe not, since the idea of a noticeably sagging frame on 20 tons of vehicle beside me would be a little disturbing!


I hope Bob's not considering anything which would bow the Escort!