Trailer Chassis

[Frog]

I'm new to this forum but have read a lot of websites where people have built their own teardroops. The question I have has probably been asked and answered many times but since it all rides on the trailer, the trailre choice is most critical.

The Harbor Freight (primarilly) and Tractor Supply trailers (to a lesser extent) are almost exclusively used for homebuilt teardrops. Many people use the 1,180# GVW Harbor Freight "Red" trailers and end up with trailers that are at, near, or exceed the GVW of the trailer.

I'm curious as to why the HF trailers are used so much? It seems that with the amount of work and craftsmenship and the elapsed time to build these great trailers and the cost it would make more sense to get a slightly better built, stronger, American made trailer that uses 15" wheels.

The cost would be a few hundred dollars more with not much of a weight penalty. The results would be a stronger trailer with more ground clearance with greater GVW and axle capacity as well as a better choice for larger diameter and wider American made tires for a better ride. The difference in weight of maybe 200 lbs would be hardly noticed by the vast majority of vehicles towing teardrops. The additional cost of a few hundreds amortized over the life of the trailer when several thousand dollars may be spent anyway would also seem to be money well spent.

I'd appreciate some of your learned opinions.

Frog

[Wimperdink]

You said it a few times.... $$cost$$

I cant speak for everybody, but, I dont think everyone is meeting or exceeding the gvw. There are a few yes. The quality of the trailer frame itself doesnt count much considering there is a torsion box being built on it. The box sturdy's up the trailer beyond what is needed. The frame just becomes a point to attach the frame and hitch to the box when its built. A few hundred dollars in the end can mean a big differance in the final touches. Now if you said it was silly to buy an HF vs a Northern Tool trailer with the larger wheels and heavier suspension to haul four wheelers and a lawn mower, I'd agree with you all the way. Those trailers have just a flat bed built on them.

As for cost, I believe a lot of folks build both for the project and to keep the costs down. There is a plethera of diff quality builds out there. I will build on an HF frame that I already have when the time is right. I've welded the frame completely so it is every bit as stiff as a TS or NT trailer though it wasn't really needed. (I only paid 60 bucks for mine though so I'll use that savings)

[madjack]

Froggy, I fall into the build it yourself category(WITH 15" wheels), mainly for the concerns you voiced...not meaning to rain on anyones parade and regardless of the fact that there are many a nice TD built on a Harbor Freight frame, I wouldn't use one for any thing other than a trash hauler...I have said this many times and have seen it proved in real life too often...you should always have an axle(spring type) that is rated for 50% over the intended load...that load does not include the weight of the axle itself along with the weight of the tires and wheels but does include everything else...to answer your question about WHY Harbor Freight...cause they're cheap!!!!!!
madjack

p.s. welcome to our little playground and I hope you have fun reaching your destination...oh yeah, don't forget the pics...we luv 'em...doanchano and besides, it helps keep Auntie's bubble oil level!!!!!!!!!!

[bobhenry]

Several good points were just made. There is no concentrated load like a big riding mower would place on the frame. We are essentially hauling a big ridgid box. My frame was reserected from a bent and abused HF 4x8. I threw away the bent frame and used only the tongue and axles. You want to talk about concentrated loads they dropped a landscape boulder on it when it rolled out of the backhoe bucket a bit prematurely from about 3 feet up. Well it was a $75.00 bargain for me.





Yeah iw was a handrail in a previous life and it was free.

If I were to build another I would use this one as a guide. I borrowed it off of someone here on the forum.

[Mark McD]

I used the heavy duty HF 4/8 frame on my first build- a Kuffel Creek Cubby. I wasn't anywhere near the rated trailer weight, so combine that factor with, of course, the fact that the HF trailer is inexpensive and readily available, and my choice was easy. While I agree the quality of the HF trailer may not be the best but in my opinion they are completely suited to small teardrops.

On my current build I'm using a scavenged Puma pop-up frame as the base because I want a bigger camper. Pop-up frames are nice because they can easily be had for low dough and they are obviously built for campers.

[ssrjim]

I think the real reason Harbor Freight is the most common choice is the easy access. Doe's not require a lot of shopping around; searching; research. Just go down and plunk down your credit card and you are building.

[madjack]

...let me clarify...I have nothing against the frame of the HF units since almost any frame is enough for a TD...my concern is for the lighter weight axle/axle spring set up being over loaded...I also have a strong preference for larger tires than the 12" units on the HF trailers........
madjack

[Dean in Eureka, CA]

Frog,
There are many builders here who opt for building their own frame.
I think the reason many first time builders opt for the packaged frame isn't so much for money savings...
I tend to lean towards the thought of it's a way to get around the lack of welding equipment and know how.
BTW-WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!

[Alphacarina]

I'm curious as to why the HF trailers are used so much? It seems that with the amount of work and craftsmenship and the elapsed time to build these great trailers and the cost it would make more sense to get a slightly better built, stronger, American made trailer that uses 15" wheels.

HF trailers are used because:
1.) Nothing comes close to the price - I bought the most expensive and heavy duty one they sell (rated at 1,740 pounds) for $255
2.) They bolt together so guys who can't weld can build one
3.) They bolt together, so they come in a small box and can be shipped anywhere in the country for a few bucks - Handy for folks who don't live next door to a place that sells 'American Made' trailers
4.) They are both lightweight (great for buillding a lightweight teardrop as many are pulled by small 4 cylinder cars) and yet they are more than heavy duty enough for the purpose
5.) Because the bolt together, they're much easier to modify than buying an already welded up trailer which would require hacking up and rewelding
6.) Because literally hundreds (maybe even thousands) of others have built on them and very few have had problems because of the quality or design of the trailer . . . . otherwise they would have a bad name and nobody would touch one with a ten foot pole
7.) Did I mention they're cheap - It's not just a few bucks cheaper either
8.) All of the above makes them an excellent choice to build a lightweight tear on

The cost would be a few hundred dollars more with not much of a weight penalty. The results would be a stronger trailer with more ground clearance with greater GVW and axle capacity as well as a better choice for larger diameter and wider American made tires for a better ride. The difference in weight of maybe 200 lbs would be hardly noticed by the vast majority of vehicles towing teardrops. The additional cost of a few hundreds amortized over the life of the trailer when several thousand dollars may be spent anyway would also seem to be money well spent.

200 extra pounds is a ton when it comes to pulling with a small car, especially when it's wasted weight making something twice or three times as strong as it needs to be. Trailers ride best and work best when the weight of the trailer is about matched to the capacity of the axle - Building a 1200 pound teardrop on a 2500 or 3500 pound axle isn't really a great idea and most pre-built trailers which come with 15 inch wheels also come with axles designed for more weight than a teardrop . . . . so they ride WORSE than their HF counterparts - It's easier (and cheaper) to put 15 inch wheels on a HF trailer (if you really need them for some reason) than to work with a 3500 pound axle. You don't really want or need greater ground clearance . . . . again, if you're pulling with a small car, you want LESS ground clearance and you just about need a dropped axle if you want to use 15 inch wheels and tires. The real 'sweet spot' is probably13 inch wheels with 80 series tires designed specifically for trailers - That's what I've got on my HF 1740 trailer

Generally though, it boils down to saving a few hundred dollars and saving a few hundred pounds and sticking with something that isn't too heavy duty for what you want to build. When starting your teardrop project, think LIGHT and try to make it as LIGHT as you possibly can - Unfortunately when you're done, it will still be much heavier than it needed to be and you will pay for that extra, unnecessary weight in reduced gas mileage every time you use it

Don

[del]

Another reason to use a harbor freight (or any manufactor) over a home made. State inspection is not required for the harbor freight one, hey the fifty dollar inspectoin fee is better in my pocket, than the states (Washington state, other states may vary).

del

[jdarkoregon]

Frog, welcome to the group. As for the frame, if you build it, do some searching on "ultra lite" most here, including me build too heavy.

Keep doing your research, ask questions of any member, I don't think you will ever be turned down away with your questions

John

[Steve F]

I built my own because I wanted 15" wheels with decent springs, not a slipper spring arrangement, this was because of my offroad requirements. Also a prefab trailer down here in Aus is nowhere near as cheap as the HF trailers you guys get. Oh and I built partially over the wheels so had some specific requirements. In saying that I would have built anyway because I can



Cheers
Steve

[Frog]

First of all, thanks for your well thought out responses.  I guess a little knowledge is dangerous.  By that I meant that I did read where more than one person would replace the screw type cupler for a positive latch type. others made the single tongue stronger by adding cross bracing.  Others replaced the original bolts with grade 5 or higher bolts.  All these modifications, while it seems are not necessary cost money and take time.  The problem I see with smaller tires, particularly 8" and to a lesser extent 12" are three fold.  (1) They will be turning a lot more revolutions per minute.  An 8" tire is turning the same rpm at 60 mph as a 14 or 15 inch would be at 110+ mph causing potential bearing and tire heat.  (2)  To get the carrying capacity of a 15 inch 4 ply tire at 35 psi, an 8 or 12 tire would have to inflated to 60 or 90 psi.  The high pressure in conjucntion with the narrow profile tires will cause a much harder ride with more bouncing and shaking of the body and contents, some of which can be felt in the tow car.  (3)  It is hard to get high quality American made 8" tires.I've been towing utilty trailers, single and tandem axle travel trailers and the occasional U-haul for 40 + years so I'm not really a stranger to at least the trailer part of this discussion.  I have a 6 X 10 Utility trailer I tow with a Jeep Cherokee and a small utility trailer (44" X 54") inside body dimensions on a bolted together US made trailer (4.80 X 8 tires) I assembled in 1981.  The little guy was a great trailer for hauling an 8 X 10 tent, food, firewood, coolers and everything else for camping behind both a 1979 1,450 cc 70 hp VW Rabbit and a 1984 2.0 ltr 84 hp Mazda 626.  I towed the little trailer (1,180# GVW) from California to D.C. and 3 years later towed it back.  When empty, with 60 psi in the tires, the trailer would leave the ground on bumpy roads, at 35 psi it didn't thus my preference for large, over capacity tires that can be run at lower pressure.  I guess I'm no stranger to towing small trailers behind gutless wonders.  By the way, I changed the original 1981 4 ply Goodyear tires in 2007 for 6 ply Carliles ($2.00 more each over 4 ply).  I was on borrowed time.   I found it impossible to get a high quality American made tire in the 8" size.  Another reason for larger tires.Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse as you have quite effectively answered my questions.  I find this site fascinating and full of a lot of hands on expertise.  Thanks again for your answers and patience.  I think I'm going to like it here.

[Wimperdink]

I do agree that the skinny 8" wheels are much more difficult to get a nice smooth ride out of as they tend to fall into small pot holes much easier than a larger tire. As for the increased revolutions because of their size, large or small, you will still need to maintain bearings on any trailer. Keeping them properly maintained kinda eliminates the worries about size and increased bearing wear.

I've got a harbor freight frame with the skinny 12" inch tires, a few boat trailers with the skinny 8" tires and a 6' x 8" trailer with full 15" rim tires. The utility has no springs and when its empty I have to run the tires at about 18 psi to keep it from going air borne on a bumpy road. I know the feeling with the small skinny tires. They can get very bouncy and skittish.

This pic was not intended to show the tires I have on wazat but its the best I have to show them. They are 8" but are much wider than the normal 8" wheels. I was very impressed at how they handled. The extra width made it handle like full sized tires. I am well aware that the bearings will need more attention than with normal sized tires, but I really like how low to the ground it sets the trailer and still handles great.


Sorry... I got to rambling.

[Arne]

my take is most over build the frame. The t/d is an extremely rigid box. I don't have the pic, but having 2 pieces coming back from the tongue in a 'V' shape to the axle mount is all that is really needed.... the rest is just excess weight.

Unfortunately, I am thinking about no. 3 using that technique.