Water tank question

[bobhenry]

The water will move at 8 to 10 psi you do not have to get crazy with air storage tanks or anything else.

How about a 12 volt dc power source that will also power your AC tv for up to 4 hours and also has an emergency work light. If your tow has a dead battery get a quick jump and of course if you need an air compressor for a low tire of water delivery just use the compressor. Some time life does not have to be all this damn difficult



http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15591

[Frog]

Interesting idea using the readilly available PVC Pipe ad fittings. I calculated your dimensions at 11.75 gallons. If that were a rectangular tank 4" high, 8" wide and 9' long you'd have 14.9 gallons, almost 27% more. A custom made tank would probably be far more expensive. A ready made tank of different dimensions that would fit between frame rails might by available and cheaper.

I still think you would use more 12 volt electricity pumping air rather than water due to compression of air. Every time you open the tank to refill it, you would lose the air pressure.

There is a reason almost every manufacturer of RV's uses a 12 volt water pump and not an air compressor. They are cost effective and reliable.

[bobhenry]

If you want to be self sufficient you can always bring a bicycle hand pump . Have you ever noticed a pressure vessle is cylindrical ? There must be a reason. The long side of a box has a great deal more internal pressure which will distort the long side.

Some times simple plum escapes us.

[bobhenry]

Interesting idea using the readilly available PVC Pipe ad fittings. I calculated your dimensions at 11.75 gallons. If that were a rectangular tank 4" high, 8" wide and 9' long you'd have 14.9 gallons, almost 27% more. A custom made tank would probably be far more expensive. A ready made tank of different dimensions that would fit between frame rails might by available and cheaper.

I still think you would use more 12 volt electricity pumping air rather than water due to compression of air. Every time you open the tank to refill it, you would lose the air pressure.

There is a reason almost every manufacturer of RV's uses a 12 volt water pump and not an air compressor. They are cost effective and reliable.

You also forgot to allow for the volumn of the fittings!

[Frog]

After I sent it, I said I bet he's going to come back with "You forgot about the volume of the fittings". Right you are. 12 gallons.

Interestingly, one 6" diameter pipe 9' long would give you 13.25 gallons then add the volume of the fittings to probably 13.5 if there is clearance underneath. Fewer fittings and 12% more water. Two 6' would give better balance than one and would provide 18 gallons weighing 150 lbs. I know, I'm off the deep end.

I still don't see the value of pressurising the "tank" vs an electric pump. There is probably little difference in the pump or compressor price. I've used both and the water pump outweighs the other.

[bobhenry]

Interestingly we have a 12 volt water pump and a 120 volt ac water pump and have yet to install either. We have camped up to 3 days at a time and very seldom fill our 5 gallon water jug more than twice. We are avid cooks and wash our dishes rather than toss away paper. Personal hygiene is handled with a wash cloth and a couple quarts of hot water rather than a 20 minute hot shower! Camping is camping if you need all the comforts of home by all means just stay there! Or perhaps you should purchase a $300,000 motor home. The Teardrop experience is designed to be minimalistic. 10 gallon of water on board is not minimalictic , it is a mini luxuary, It is one that I intend to install , more for bragging rights than out of necessity.

And ...... If your on board batteries are dead and your too far out to plug in air pressure will still deliver your water just start pumpin'

[bobhenry]

We have one of these in the kitchen as a conversation piece.




and yes it works but only if you prime it 1st



HUMMM ! maybe we don't need air or electricity after all.

[48Rob]

Camping is camping if you need all the comforts of home by all means just stay there! Or perhaps you should purchase a $300,000 motor home.

Bob,

I squeezed all the comforts I wanted in my cabin car...I couldn't afford the motor home...
10 Gallons isn't enough...gotta have at least 20...for the hot shower!

Sure are a lot of different "styles" of camping.
Always fun to compare versions!

Rob

[john]

The reason I originally posted the question was to find out if it was possible to have the water storage tank as part of the pressurized system that was already there. Why have two systems? Why have two ways to get water in the trailer.

It seemed simpler to have, in essence, a huge water pipe (the tank) that would auto fill when pressured water was available. My thought was to mount the tank high and let it gravity take the water to the faucet when there was no pressure on the system. A single hookup outside the trailer, a single pipe, a single faucet for both pressured and non pressured systems, no pumps, and auto filling the storage tank. It seemed a simpler way. An air valve would be needed to let air in or out of the storage tank and be able to close when pressurized.

I have since stumbled onto to a $20 faucet that works as both a pressured and pump faucet. I intend to use store bought water from the container under the sink when pressured water is not provided.

[Frog]

John:

Looks like the best of both worlds. Light and inexpensive. How does the water get pumped from the tank to the faucet? From the picture I couldn't tell if that handle on th right of the picture was a pump or a valve handle. What are you going to use for a tank, i.e. built in or portable?

[brian_bp]

The water will move at 8 to 10 psi you do not have to get crazy with air storage tanks or anything else.

Okay, but if the water tank starts at 90% full and 30 psi, by the time it is down to 70% full it has about 10 psi... and after that there's not enough pressure to use the rest of the tank capacity.

How about a 12 volt dc power source that will also power your AC tv for up to 4 hours and also has an emergency work light. If your tow has a dead battery get a quick jump and of course if you need an air compressor for a low tire of water delivery just use the compressor. Some time life does not have to be all this damn difficult

If this portable power pack is used to run an electric water pump instead of going the air-pressure route, I agree that makes sense. Of course, if the trailer has a battery already, an electric pump is the easiest solution, and no extra portable power pack is required.


In a system with a powered pump, there is no duplication of faucets or tanks, only the filler. I agree that having one fill point to refill the tank and to stay hooked up while at a serviced campsite makes sense, but you can do that with one cheap valve between the water line from the pressurized water inlet and the tank: hook up the hose, open the valve until the tank is full, and you're done. A float valve (kind of like in a toilet tank) can even make it automatic.


Another way to have running water (in addition to electric pumps, gravity feed from an elevated tank, air pressure, and hand pump) is a foot pump. Hand pumps are very common in small trailers, and there's already an example above, but of course one hand is kept busy running it; a foot pump leaves both hands free. In a really quick search I only found this Whale pump, but there are nicer designs available; they seem to be used primarily in boats.

[john]

frog said:

Looks like the best of both worlds. Light and inexpensive. How does the water get pumped from the tank to the faucet? From the picture I couldn't tell if that handle on th right of the picture was a pump or a valve handle. What are you going to use for a tank, i.e. built in or portable?

If the handle is pushed down the valve to the pressured water is opened. If the same handle is raised and lowered repeatedly water is pumped from a tank.

I have bounced back and forth on the water storage question. Right now I am partial to a container of store bought water under the sink. It has the advantage of good taste.

The idea of a 5 to 15 gal storage container is appealing, but I don't think it will be needed and the storage tank can get funky. If I change my mind later I can always add a permanent tank.

[moreforles]

I'ld like to try to have my water system like it is on many RV's - be able to fill the tank (tubes, or what ever) when needed or possible, and at camp grounds that have water hook up, let the camp ground supply water to faucets.

But I plan to occasionally be in remote locations and possibly for extended stays, so wanted a larger water supply. Also for Gold prospecting hobby, sluices, pans etc... need water as well.

I'm looking to the future, contemplating at some point the possibility of being a full timer, on the road... and having the Astro van camper as well as the shuttle camper pulled behind it, extra storage in the astro, and if I can convince the wife to be full timer, the extra room will be helpful as we both might need some alone time from time to time..... so planning it so we can both have our own "rooms"

(she hasn't been informed about any of these plans other than a camper to use for prospecting and such.... I fill her in on the rest of the plan as the campers get built and catch her in good mood first....)

[green_skinnydipper]

Just glanced through this thread. If you use PVC, make sure you have the correct type, listed for potable water (ASTM D-1784), and the correct type of glue. Remember the water is going to sit in this pipe for hours on end and pick up all the little nasties and chemicals.

Here is product data from Sanderson DWV (Drain Waste and Vent) PVC pipe:

MANUFACTURER'S CERTIFICATION

DWV PVC PIPE

This is to certify the products herein referred to and manufactured by Sanderson Pipe Corporation, meet or exceed the requirements of the pertinent standards and regulating agencies as indicated:

Materials - PVC materials used to Drain, Waste and Vent (DWV) pipe manufactured by Sanderson Pipe Corporation comply with ASTM Standards D-1784 and are approved by the National Sanitation Foundation for potable water use.
DWV Pipe - Physical dimensions and tolerances of Drain, Waste and Vent (DWV) pipe manufactured by Sanderson Pipe Corporation are within the requirements of ASTM D-2665 and are approved by the National Sanitation Foundation.
Markings - Drain, Waste and Vent (DWV) pipe, manufactured by Sanderson Pipe Corporation is marked as prescribed in the ASTM D-2665: normal pipe size, the material abbreviation (PVC), the product abbreviation (DWV), ASTM specifications designation number, manufacturer's name and code number and the National Sanitation Foundation seal (NSF). (DWV) pipe is also marked ASTM D-1785 and PS-21-70 for potable water use.

[moreforles]

it looks like either schedule 40 or 80 will work in regards to that....

a little more expensive than the other, but.... to keep from poisoning myself, I guess I'll spring for the more expensive stuff..... or go with the rectangular 40 Gal tank I salvaged from RV..... its in the garage somewhere along with all the other stuff I've been accumulating

this year I'm going to start using stuff (and still keep gathering for future builds or sale to others for their builds...

now if I can figure out how to use Google Sketchup....