Pick-up Truck Question

[Creamcracker]

I just bought a 1999 GMC Sierra Extended Cab Pick-up truck...my son and I are going to share it....I've just had it with trying to borrow a truck when I need to go to the lumber yard...or haul trash....or load up some limbs that have fallen in the yard. Anyway it has 260,000 miles on the clock but it is in good shape for what we want...and the great thing is we only paid $500! I can't imagine we're going to drive it more that 1,000 miles a year, if that. Ok, so now the question.....the gas gauge does not work...it reads empty and the low fuel light is on....a couple of times, as I was driving home the gauge moved to half full (which is correct) and the light went out, but after 10 secs or so it went back to zero. The seller told me it hasn't worked for some time and they just fill it up and when they've driven 300 miles they fill it again...I've been looking on line at some products along with comments about problems with this model....seems like others have fuel guage problems and one person said he took care of it by "throwing in a couple bottles of CHEVRON TECHRON CONCENTRATE PLUS and that took care of it. I looked the product up online and sure enough it says it helps to clean and restore fuel guage readers...so I was wondering if anyone had first hand experience with this product? Thanks Philip

[chezrad]

I have a 99 chevy with the same problem. The sender in the tank is bad. Unfortunately it is not real easy to replace. I just leave the trip odometer on and fill up when I get around 350 miles.

[caseydog]

Techron is just a fuel additive that Chevron/Texaco puts in their gasolines, and you can buy to increase the additive's concentration in your gas tank.

It may, or may not fix your problem, but it won't hurt anything.

Now, if you will not be using this vehicle a lot, you need to keep the tank full, anyway. That will help keep condensation from causing problems. You may also want to put a fuel stabilizer in the tank if the vehicle is going to sit for a long time.

But, I would definitely keep the tank full, especially during the winter.

CD

[Larwyn]

I do not know the cure but my 2000 Silverado is developing the same problem. The guage will eventually come up high enough to turn off the low fuel light on mine but I still cannot trust it. I use the 300 mile indication too. If you find somthing quick, easy and chep that works I would like to know too.

Another common problem with these trucks that I just found out about is the emergency brake shoes wear down and will no longer work. My truck just failed inspection yesterday for no emergency brake, I never use it so didn't even know. There is a small drum brake inside the rear disc brake rotor on these trucks and the story is if you do not use the emergency brake regularly it will get out of adjustment, rub and wear to the point of no longer working. I was told it would cost about $350 per side to fix it but found all the parts including new e-brake shoes, rotors, clips, springs and brake pads for less the $200 (parts for both sides) at NAPA. Seems they want to make about $500 for labor at the repair shop so I'll do it myself. I'll let you know how it goes if you're interested.

I have had this truck for close to 10 years, it's aproaching 100,000 miles, and I've done nothing but keep the oil changed and replaced the tires up to this point. There is no question that it is the best vehicle I have ever owned, so I am not complaining about these two little problems. I'd say you probably got your hands on a good truck there.

[Aaron Coffee]

The fuel guage problem isn't just on Chevys, my 98 Dodge Dakota has been doing that for about three years, it may sit on empty for a couple days then will go back up to the correct reading, may read correct for days, other times it will continually bounce back and forth, the really annoying part is the bell for the low fuel light. Kind of scared me going to ITG this summer, ended up on what I swear was the worlds longest detour and the gas gauge seemed like it stayed at empty forever. I usually reset the trip meter. Will also be watching for a quick and easy (cheap) fix. Haven't checked mine yet but have been told that the ground to the tank can sometimes be the culprit.

[caseydog]

There is a small drum brake inside the rear disc brake rotor on these trucks and the story is if you do not use the emergency brake regularly it will get out of adjustment, rub and wear to the point of no longer working.

Okay, I gotta wonder about that. That makes no sense. I would be more inclined to think that the E-brake is just a cable system that operates the rear disc, and that the cable has stretched.

That is how every other four disc system I have seen works.

Putting a drum inside a disc system just adds parts for no reason. Why?

Check again. That just doesn't make sense.

CD

[Kevin A]

There is a small drum brake inside the rear disc brake rotor on these trucks and the story is if you do not use the emergency brake regularly it will get out of adjustment, rub and wear to the point of no longer working.

Okay, I gotta wonder about that. That makes no sense. I would be more inclined to think that the E-brake is just a cable system that operates the rear disc, and that the cable has stretched.

That is how every other four disc system I have seen works.

Putting a drum inside a disc system just adds parts for no reason. Why?

Check again. That just doesn't make sense.

CD

Larwyn made the cooment that he never uses the E-brake, to suggest that the cable was stretched doesn't make any sense either.
Here's a link that supports what Larwyn posted.

http://www.carcomplaints.com/Chevrolet/ ... ions.shtml
2000 CHEVROLET SILVERADO -- In a letter dated April 20, 2005, GM notified NHTSA that it had decided that defects that relate to motor vehicle safety exist in certain model year (MY) 1999-2002 C/K 1500 series (PBR parking brake system) and MY 2001-2005 C/K 2500 and 3500 series (TRW parking brake system) pickups with manual transmissions. According to GM, some of these vehicles may have conditions that cause the friction linings to wear to an extent where the parking brake can become ineffective in immobilizing a parked vehicle. GM's action covers an estimated total of 142,585 vehicles. Dealers will install a low-force spring clip retainer for vehicles equipped with the PBR parking brake system and install a redesigned parking brake cable assembly on vehicles equipped with the TRW parking brake system. A total of 58 non-duplicative complaints were received by ODI and GM concerning the approximately 59,000 MY 1999-2002 C/K 1500 series pickup trucks with the PBR parking brake system. These included 22 alleged rollaway incidents, resulting in a rate of 38.5 rollaway incidents per 100,000 vehicles. ODI is aware of 24 complaints regarding the MY 2001-2005 C/K 2500 and 3500 series manual transmission trucks recalled by GM, including 5 alleging rollaway incidents. Though the conditions described in GM's letter are also present in the C/K trucks with automatic transmissions, the rollaway rate in those vehicles was similar to those observed in peer vehicles studied by ODI in this investigation. This engineering analysis is closed. For additional information, see the attached closing report. Investigation was initiated on April 09 2004. Closed on May 10 2005. For detailed information & supporting documents, see the official NHTSA page concerning investigation #EA04011 »

[Larwyn]

There is a small drum brake inside the rear disc brake rotor on these trucks and the story is if you do not use the emergency brake regularly it will get out of adjustment, rub and wear to the point of no longer working.

Okay, I gotta wonder about that. That makes no sense. I would be more inclined to think that the E-brake is just a cable system that operates the rear disc, and that the cable has stretched.

That is how every other four disc system I have seen works.

Putting a drum inside a disc system just adds parts for no reason. Why?

Check again. That just doesn't make sense.

CD

Chevy has done it that way for years. Back when I did brake jobs as part of my regular work the only thing I remember that Chevy made with 4 wheel discs was the Corvete and it had what they call "drum in hat" e-brake back then (early 80's). It was very close to the same system that is on these Chevy half tons. Others such as the Linclon did use a mechanical means of utilizing the disc brake for the e-brake. I have located the rotors, shoes, springs, clips and pads to do the repairs, I do no think I need to check and make sure that the turck uses them, but instead only to look and see what is worn and actually needs replacement.

Though I have not taken many pictures of them, I have been fixing my own cars for over 40 years. It would take very little for you to do just a little research to check up on your vast knowlege before challenging the facts.

[caseydog]

There is a small drum brake inside the rear disc brake rotor on these trucks and the story is if you do not use the emergency brake regularly it will get out of adjustment, rub and wear to the point of no longer working.

Okay, I gotta wonder about that. That makes no sense. I would be more inclined to think that the E-brake is just a cable system that operates the rear disc, and that the cable has stretched.

That is how every other four disc system I have seen works.

Putting a drum inside a disc system just adds parts for no reason. Why?

Check again. That just doesn't make sense.

CD

Larwyn made the cooment that he never uses the E-brake, to suggest that the cable was stretched doesn't make any sense either.
Here's a link that supports what Larwyn posted.

http://www.carcomplaints.com/Chevrolet/ ... ions.shtml
2000 CHEVROLET SILVERADO -- In a letter dated April 20, 2005, GM notified NHTSA that it had decided that defects that relate to motor vehicle safety exist in certain model year (MY) 1999-2002 C/K 1500 series (PBR parking brake system) and MY 2001-2005 C/K 2500 and 3500 series (TRW parking brake system) pickups with manual transmissions. According to GM, some of these vehicles may have conditions that cause the friction linings to wear to an extent where the parking brake can become ineffective in immobilizing a parked vehicle. GM's action covers an estimated total of 142,585 vehicles. Dealers will install a low-force spring clip retainer for vehicles equipped with the PBR parking brake system and install a redesigned parking brake cable assembly on vehicles equipped with the TRW parking brake system. A total of 58 non-duplicative complaints were received by ODI and GM concerning the approximately 59,000 MY 1999-2002 C/K 1500 series pickup trucks with the PBR parking brake system. These included 22 alleged rollaway incidents, resulting in a rate of 38.5 rollaway incidents per 100,000 vehicles. ODI is aware of 24 complaints regarding the MY 2001-2005 C/K 2500 and 3500 series manual transmission trucks recalled by GM, including 5 alleging rollaway incidents. Though the conditions described in GM's letter are also present in the C/K trucks with automatic transmissions, the rollaway rate in those vehicles was similar to those observed in peer vehicles studied by ODI in this investigation. This engineering analysis is closed. For additional information, see the attached closing report. Investigation was initiated on April 09 2004. Closed on May 10 2005. For detailed information & supporting documents, see the official NHTSA page concerning investigation #EA04011 »

That definitely says that these trucks have problems with the e-brake. I just have a hard time with the idea that there is both a disc and a separate drum brake on the rear axle.

I don't doubt that there is a problem, I just can't believe that even GM could think of making a truck with rear discs, and throw a redundant drum system in there just for an e-brake. Again, I gotta ask, "Why?"

Four wheel disc brake systems have been around for 60 years, why would any company design a four wheel disc system with an extra drum system that is just for parking (AKA, e-brake).

Hey, nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to General Motors, but this seems like a real reach, even for me.

CD

[Kevin A]

My mistake, I copied the wrong block of text.

Here ya go:
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Chevrolet/ ... ions.shtml
2000 CHEVROLET SILVERADO -- ODI opened PE03-057 to assess parking brake ineffectiveness in the subject vehicles. These vehicles are equipped with four wheel disc brakes that incorporate a single-shoe drum-in-hat parking brake independent of the service brakes. Complaint and warranty data indicate that the parking brake linings tend to wear out early in the life of the vehicle (at an average of 24 months in service), reducing the parking brake system's torque below that needed to immobilize the vehicle. GM has attributed this accelerated wear to foreign material intrusion and a failure of the brake shoe to properly self-center within its brake drum. Effective with the start of MY 2003 production, a newer reduced force hold-down clip was introduced to facilitate brake shoe disengagement from the drum surface. This part is also available at the service level for the MY 1999-2002 vehicles. GM has indicated that the paking brake is intended to operate in conjunction with the transmission to immobilze parked vehicles, and that in many cases, accelerated parking brake lining wear is caused by rough use, vehicle modifications, and driving with the parking engaged. ODI has upgraded the preliminary evaluation to an engineering analysis to gather further information concerning parking brake usage factors and the circumstances surrounding the seventeen reported vehicle crashes. Investigation was initiated on December 08 2003. Closed on April 09 2004. For detailed information & supporting documents, see the official NHTSA page concerning investigation #PE03057 »

[caseydog]

OMG, there really is a drum within a disc parking brake on a bunch of GM trucks. WTF were they thinking. Is there any wonder why the government had to bail out GM?

It took me a little research, but some nimrods were apparently reluctant to leave behind the drum brake, so they put an almost useless drum within a disc parking break on the otherwise 1950s technologies of the full-sized GM truck.

So, I was wrong. GM is even more bassakwards than I thought they were. I can not think of any good reason to not use the discs that are already there to also serve as a parking/emergency brake.

I learn something new every day -- not always something that makes me happy.

CD

[WesGrimes]

OMG, there really is a drum within a disc parking brake on a bunch of GM trucks. WTF were they thinking. Is there any wonder why the government had to bail out GM?

It took me a little research, but some nimrods were apparently reluctant to leave behind the drum brake, so they put an almost useless drum within a disc parking break on the otherwise 1950s technologies of the full-sized GM truck.

So, I was wrong. GM is even more bassakwards than I thought they were. I can not think of any good reason to not use the discs that are already there to also serve as a parking/emergency brake.

I learn something new every day -- not always something that makes me happy.

CD

Disc brakes are controlled by hydraulics. Drum emergency brakes are mechanical.
I am sure their reason was to have a mechanical emergency brake. I have not heard of a mechanical piston option for disc brakes. There might be one, I am not much of a mechanic...

[Larwyn]

Yep, in only 10 years of service this truck has suffered a broken tailgate cable, a lying fuel gauge and now a worn emergency brake. Other than that I have had to replace all 4 tires once after only about 60,000 miles, it needs an oil change occasionally and fuel every now and then. I reckon CD is right, Chevy must be a poorly engineered piece of junk.

The drum e-brake is self centering and self adjusting, but only if you use the thing. My habbit of not using it caused it to go off center, rub on the drum and wear the shoe and/or the drum in only 10 years and close to 100,000 miles. Imagine that, something that wears out from lack of use.

Actually I could not be more happy with this truck, even though I do have to get out there and do a brake job on it soon. Hope that happens before I get a ticket for the expired inspection sticker.

[Jiminsav]

I think Ford uses a spiral inside the caliper to spin the puck out mechanically as a parking brake.

[Larwyn]

I think Ford uses a spiral inside the caliper to spin the puck out mechanically as a parking brake.

Exactly right, or at least Lincoln did back when I was doing a lot of brake work. There were really not that many vehicles back then (at least in rural East Texas) that had 4 wheel discs Lincoln and Corvete are the only two that I recall being exposed to. Most of my work was on 3/4 ton and larger trucks, many old enough to have drum brakes on both ends.

I remember the '56 Ford one ton we had on the farm had the e-brake on the back of the transmission, it was in the form of a wheel and the brake shoe was on the inside of a band that was drawn tight around the wheel when the hand brake lever was pulled.