Tongue Weight Opinions

[jbdaniels]

Hello all.

I am a new TD owner and basically a trailer noob.

I recently purchased a Silver Shadow 5x8 and we pull it with my wifes Rav4 4 cylinder.

I mounted a tongue box on the front and also mounted the spare tire on the tongue. I just weighed the tongue and was kind of surprised to see that it weighed in the neighborhood of 240 lbs. The spare tire and mount is 50 lbs, the box and tools about 35 maybe.

The Rav4 is rated to pull 1500 lbs but only 150 lb tongue weight. I estimate that my trailer weighs about 1200 lbs loaded so not worried about the total weight. However, the tongue weight is obviously higher than the rav is rated for.

We towed this back 350 miles from St. George with the spare tire and all of the gear in the box right in the back of the Rav (and a huge cooler) so it basically had almost the same weight on the rear axle. It towed beautifully and we hauled it up and down some pretty steep grades (east enterence of Zion Park for example).

I know there is another Silver Shadow owner on here with a 200 lb tongue that is towing behind a Subaru. My question is this. I really can't see anywhere else to mount the tire and I would really rather not haul it in and out of the car all the time. If I added some heavier duty load adjusting shocks (like sensa-tracs) on the rear of the Rav would that help compensate for the 240 lb tongue weight?

The Rav is equipped with a 3500/350 rated hitch with a 6500 lb rated 2" receiver.



Thanks in advance.

Joe

[caseydog]

Okay, you mentioned two different load ratings. So, I am guessing the hitch was not factory?

The most important rating is the hitch. You do not want to over stress the hitch. It sounds like you are not doing that.

As for the vehicle, the rating is probably conservative, being that it is sold in the USA. But, don't push it too far.

240 pounds of tongue weight sounds high for a 1,400 pound trailer. Are you sure that is what it is? If so, what do you have in the tongue box? Do you need all of it?

I would try to get that tongue weight down to 150-200 pounds -- closer to the 150 side.

You are probably okay, because towing capacities tend to be underrated on vehicles sold here, but 240 pounds is a bit high for a 1,400 pound trailer.

I still have to wonder what you have in that tongue box.

CD

[jbdaniels]

Thanks for the reply Casey.

You are correct it is not a factory hitch. It is a Valley (I believe a type III non distributing) that my wife had installed.

It also is not 1400 lbs I estimate only 1200 lbs. However that is going off what Little Guy claims the factory weight is. I suspect it might be more because I weighed all the stuff I put on the tongue and there seems to be an additional 30 lbs of mystery weight. So maybe the trailer is more like 1400 I won't know until I actually get it weighed.

I am pretty sure on the tongue weight though. I weighed it with two different bathroom scales.

Honestly I don't have that much in the box. Shore power cable, ball wrench, a few other tools, receiver lock. I had planned on putting more in there but not now. I will however be getting a small solar charger to put in there.

I might be able to get a smaller tongue box that fits all the way inside the frame and lose the plywood. that would save 5 or 6 lbs I guess. That would be an expensive change for such a small weight difference.

I know the hazards of having too light a tongue but what dangers might await me with a heavier tongue?

Thanks,

Joe

[eamarquardt]

If you are using a class 3 hitch then the hitch itself is rated for a tongue weight of 600# and is therefore not the limiting factor in your setup. The limiting factor (again IMHO) is what your car will support connected to the class three hitch without causing it to drag it's tail and transfer too much weight off of the front suspension. If it looks ok and handles ok I wouldn't be OVERLY concerned but you are probably at the limit of how far you want to stretch the point (or toungue weight).

Carrying more in the trunk of your car or more passengers might put you over the line. You could move the spare to under the chassis behind the axle and make a signifcant change in your tongue weight. Or put it in a nice clean bag and carry it inside the tear and remove before sleep (unless you'd like to cuddle with it). By moving it behind the axle you'd remove maybe 30 pounds or so from the tongue and also get some gain as it would be on the opposite side of the folcurm (the axle) maybe reducing your tounge weight by 50 pounds or so

Do you have brakes? I feel strongly that you should.

There you have it (again), the world according to Gus.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Gus

[schaney]

Both a light or heavy tongue will have negative impacts on handling. Hmmm, from your numbers, it sounds like your trailer came tongue heavy from the factory.

Another thing to keep in mind is overall weight limits. My 2dr Rav4 has a max weight capacity (people, gear in vehicle, gas & trailer) of 4971 lbs and it weighs 2700 lbs. That means I can add 2271 lbs. With a tow capacity of 1500 lbs that means a max of 771 lbs in the vehicle. After adding two people and gas that doesn't leave much. Also, for trailers over 600 lbs Toyota recommends trailer brakes.

[Trackstriper]

Do you have room in the galley for the battery?

[jbdaniels]

Do you have room in the galley for the battery?

No not really. I removed the large tongue box and plywood that was supporting it. I have replaced that with an 8 gallon actionpacker mounted directly to the cargo platform. This is much lighter and still holds all the trailer tools that I need.

I have also since removed the spare tire and mount. I am not quite sure what to do about this yet. Maybe just go with a donut tire or pack the full size spare in the Rav. Not sure yet.

While I had everything off, I weighed the tongue again and lo and behold the weight is 30 lbs over what is advertised. It is about 163 lbs. I only have a quilt and pillows and a couple clothing items in the bed area and I also have a few heavier items in the galley which should be off setting the tongue. Go figure! So with the box I am probably sitting a bit over 180 lbs now which I am comfortable with.

So I am a bit at a loss right now. Spent a bunch of money on that big tongue box and I made a couple of cuts in the cargo platform to mount that jack mount that I may not be using. Kind of a bummer but I will get over it.

I sure do appreciate all the input.

Regards,

Joe

[TD Beej]

How big a battery do you have? Arne told me that in his Aero1 he used a smaller battery from one of those mobility scooters.

I don't recall who's trailer it was but they mounted batteries under the tear, if you have room to do that you could put that mass right behind the axle.

If you have the room you could probably mount the tire flat to the bottom near the axle too.

Better yet do one of those nice pivit out and flip down spare tire/tables.

Beej

[M B Hamilton]

Sounds like you've made a big improvement on your "weight" problem.

I was just looking at your posted picture, you had a lot of that weight way far forward on the trailer's tongue. The battery was right behind the coupler and the spare hung near it. That made your problem worse.

You can always mitigate the effect of weight forward of the axle (in terms of tongue weight) by locating it as close to the axle as you can get it. It's the same principal as using a see-saw with someone of greater or lesser weight.

[frank_a]

Can you move the axle? Moving it forward a bit would lessen tongue weight.

Frank

[Mightydog]

I have a tongue box just like that. My Smokey Joe fits perfectly in it....and it doesn't weigh too much!