OK Welding and Fab Gurus ????? I need your help again!!!!

[kirkman]

I am going to make my axle wider so my wheels are on the out side of my tear. My problem is after I cut the axle in half I cant get a pipe that will fit tight over the axle. The closest one I can get is a 1/4" to big. What can I do? Should I still try yo use it and try to build up a weld with my MiG until I can weld the two together or should I weld angle on it instead? HELP !

[chorizon]

I wouldn't try to stitch an 1/8" opening (1/4" / 2) together on my axle. I'd shim the gap between the axle and the extension tube at the open ends before welding them up. I'd plug weld at the ends of the axle tubes thru the extension tube.

I'd feel pretty safe about that...

[kirkman]

Plug weld? I'm not a welder just a Entomologist with a MiG welder. Bugs I know, welding I don't. I bought the pipe longer that I need so it would over lap at least 8" on each side. with the smaller axle in side of it.

[chorizon]

A plug weld is pretty basic, really. You'd drill a few holes around the periphery of your extension tube where it coincides with the end of the original axle tubes. (8" in in your case )

Then slip everything together and fill those holes up, making sure you get penetration into the original axle tubes.

Then fillet weld up the shimmed openings on the ends and you're done. A good trick is to rotate the axle around so that you're always welding with the work flat (never running vertical, always flat, this is the easiest type of weld for most people).

Check this link out, I believe it'll help if I haven't. The idea is to get good penetrating weld at all junctions.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/plug-weld.htm

[eamarquardt]

I don't think I'd plug weld the perimeter of the outside pipe to the inside pipe if there is a quarter of an inch difference.

I plan to narrow my axle a bit. To keep it right I'm going to tack a couple of pieces angle iron on opposite sides lenghtwise before cutting a couple of inches out. After removing a couple of inches, I'll turn a piece of bar stock to fit inside the tube and bevel the edges of the tubing in preparation for welding. I'll then clamp more angle iron to the pieces I tacked on to get it exactly straight in two planes just like it was to begin with and weld it up a bit at a time to, hopefully, to keep it from pulling. If it does pull, I'll use heat to get it perfect by lining up the pieces of angle I tacked on in the first place. I'll burn up a bit of angle iron but I think it will be worth it to ensure the axle is right. I can alway weld up the angle into one piece again and use it for something where a weld won't be a problem. I've done that before with tubing and angle. Waste not, want not!

To lenghten an axle I'd do the same thing, but put in a piece of tubing/pipe with two welds (rather than just one when shortening) and fitting a piece of bar stock inside to back up the weld. Should work just fine unless your tube/pipe is an unusual size and you can't get something to match . Even if it were square tubing you could do something similar.

Hope this helps and I'm open to suggestions should anyone have a simpler or more effective plan.

Cheers,

Gus

[dh]

I don't think I'd plug weld the perimeter of the outside pipe to the inside pipe if there is a quarter of an inch difference.

What is the OD od the axle tube?

Would it be possable to get a piece of tube the same as the axle is made of?

So, you could cut the axle in half, weld in a piece of tube in the center, grind the welds down, then slip a piece of pipe, perhaps custom bored to fit, over the welds, then weld these on. That would be pleanty strong.



[/quote]

[chorizon]

I don't think I'd plug weld the perimeter of the outside pipe to the inside pipe if there is a quarter of an inch difference.

Neither would I, that's why I'd shim the difference. ...1/8" per side...not so bad, I believe.

[eamarquardt]

I don't think I'd plug weld the perimeter of the outside pipe to the inside pipe if there is a quarter of an inch difference.

What is the OD od the axle tube? Let's find out!

Would it be possable to get a piece of tube the same as the axle is made of?That's knda what I'm asking also.

So, you could cut the axle in half, weld in a piece of tube in the center, grind the welds down, then slip a piece of pipe, perhaps custom bored to fit, over the welds, then weld these on. That would be pleanty strong. No I'd tack on angle iron first to establish surfaces that could be clamped when reassembling the axle. This way you could keep the original geometry of the axle intact. I'd use tubing/pipe the same dimension as the original beveling both halves of the axle and the piece to be inserted so you can get to the root of the weld easily. I'd turn a couple of pieces of bar stock or smaller pipe/tubing to insert in the bore to back up the welds so they are 100%. Then, I'd grind, file, sand the new weld flush to minimize the lines of stress (by making it smooth, it will actually be stronger than with a bead of weld there). When finished, the axle (depending on how much effort you put into the grinding, filing, sanding) would/should be virtually indistinguishable from a "factory" axle. I have a lathe so machining two backup pieces to put inside the three sections being welded would only take a few minutes. Even if the ID's and OD's were slighly different, if I were provided with a short sample of each, I could make a couple of plugs that would work. I'd do it this way because I have the capabilities and it wouldn't be that much work. You could also insert a solid piece of barstock inbetween the two halves of the axle with the ends turned down to slip inside the original tubing/pipe. Lots of options.

[/quote]

Cheers,

Gus

[vrodjason]

Multiple passes and it will be fine!

I am a final inspector for a heavy equipment manufacturer where we physically look at everything on the machine and the welding is one major parts of this process.

With that being said, our company would never butt weld this axle this back together WITHOUT some sort of reinforcement, ie: pipe, angle etc.

Doing what Gus said and use what we call a "puck" is putting the reinforcement on the inside. Looks good too.

Don't make this process overly complicated. We weld weld up gaps of 1/8" everyday and these machines take far more abuse than a trailer axle will ever see. Just my $.02

[kennyrayandersen]

I don't think I'd plug weld the perimeter of the outside pipe to the inside pipe if there is a quarter of an inch difference.

What is the OD of the axle tube?

Would it be possible to get a piece of tube the same as the axle is made of?

So, you could cut the axle in half, weld in a piece of tube in the center, grind the welds down, then slip a piece of pipe, perhaps custom bored to fit, over the welds, then weld these on. That would be plenty strong.


I like the sound of that

[/quote]

[dh]

I don't think I'd plug weld the perimeter of the outside pipe to the inside pipe if there is a quarter of an inch difference.

What is the OD od the axle tube? Let's find out!

Would it be possable to get a piece of tube the same as the axle is made of?That's knda what I'm asking also.

So, you could cut the axle in half, weld in a piece of tube in the center, grind the welds down, then slip a piece of pipe, perhaps custom bored to fit, over the welds, then weld these on. That would be pleanty strong. No I'd tack on angle iron first to establish surfaces that could be clamped when reassembling the axle. This way you could keep the original geometry of the axle intact. I'd use tubing/pipe the same dimension as the original beveling both halves of the axle and the piece to be inserted so you can get to the root of the weld easily. I'd turn a couple of pieces of bar stock or smaller pipe/tubing to insert in the bore to back up the welds so they are 100%. Then, I'd grind, file, sand the new weld flush to minimize the lines of stress (by making it smooth, it will actually be stronger than with a bead of weld there). When finished, the axle (depending on how much effort you put into the grinding, filing, sanding) would/should be virtually indistinguishable from a "factory" axle. I have a lathe so machining two backup pieces to put inside the three sections being welded would only take a few minutes. Even if the ID's and OD's were slighly different, if I were provided with a short sample of each, I could make a couple of plugs that would work. I'd do it this way because I have the capabilities and it wouldn't be that much work. You could also insert a solid piece of barstock inbetween the two halves of the axle with the ends turned down to slip inside the original tubing/pipe. Lots of options.

Cheers,

Gus[/quote]

That works good too, and if the insert fits tightly, they that can be plug welded. There's more than one way to _____ a ______ (I'm sure I'll get kicked out of here if I put my personal favorite version here)

[eamarquardt]

I reread the original post and noted that there is no mention of moving the frame out to to support the new axle width. If you widen the axle you should also move out the springs and spring supports. Otherwise in all likelyhood your're gonna put too much stress on the axle and bend it. In addition the trailer will be much more prone to sway (the tail wagging the dog) than if the springs were moved out also.

Cheers,

Gus

[kirkman]

Thanks guys for all the replies! I tried to get a peace of pipe closer to the diameter of my axle (1" 3/4) but no one had one. So I had to settle for a 2"id pipe. That Is one of the reasons I asked about maybe using a angle peace instead of the pipe. I was thinking I could weld down the hole length of the angle (8" on each side) instead of just at the ends. I could then put another piece of angle on top and box it in. So it would be more like a square tube instead of a round one.
eamartquardt.... I did move the frame out. Thanks!

[vrodjason]

No need for a full length weld. Plus the full weld will put more heat into the metal which will cause it to actually be a weaker weldment and may cause it to warp. A good stitch weld is all you need. For example, if your angle is 18" long, weld 2" long beads 2" to 3" apart. My dad and I have used this method several times on equipment and dump trailers. Works well. I think you are on the right track. Good luck!

[satch]

Slipped a piece (solid) into the axle, plug and end weld the rest. Worked great for me