Thrifty Alternatives ..Building Foam Campers

[Hillmann]

how much does a gallon of epoxy cost? and how much does it cover?

[Larry C]

how much does a gallon of epoxy cost? and how much does it cover?

That's a tough question, There is a large price range from different companies. The coverage will depend on the material being covered, number of coats, whether you will be using fiberglass cloth (recommended), and the weight per yard of the cloth.

If you could give us a little more details on the project, it might help pin down your request.

[Hillmann]

I am just wondering what the cost is using titebond II on canvas compared to using epoxy on fabric or glass since it is glue and canvas is being discussed as a thrifty alternative, I am wondering if it really is cheaper than using an epoxy.

[Larry C]

I am just wondering what the cost is using titebond II on canvas compared to using epoxy on fabric or glass since it is glue and canvas is being discussed as a thrifty alternative, I am wondering if it really is cheaper than using an epoxy.

I have been following this canvas/TB II thread with interest. Here's my personal take.......

Real canvas (Cotton Duck) is not a cheap fabric, probably more than fiberglass. Titebond II by the gallon is also not cheap.

The whole concept makes me a little skittish. I have built several small boats and I have lots of fiberglass/epoxy experience. For me, it would be easier to use glass/epoxy and probably not much difference in cost.

I know lots of boats have been covered with canvas over wood for a long time. However, once fiberglass became available, the method has been pretty much left to restoration work on older boats.

I am not saying it's a bad idea or that it wont work, it's clear it does work. For me it looks like it would be more difficult to apply than glass/epoxy, but I applaud the effort and hope it works long term on a Teardrop trailer.

[CAJUN LADY]

Since y'all have a lot of knowledge to share, help me with this: I want to make my own awning from a painters canvas drop cloth. A member on here said she and her brother used deck sealer to make it waterproof.

I want to waterproof it and I'd like to paint stripes over it to match my Scotty. Do you think it would still be waterproofed if I paint over it after I've applied the sealer?

I'm just trying a thrifty alternative to having to pay to have an awning made, which I may still have to do if this doesn't work.

9/29/2011: Never mind then!

[Yuri4x4]

<-- All about 'thrifty'!

I'm really liking the idea of using TB2 with cloth on the outer surface. But I have a question (cuz I'm a newby)... Is Titebond2 clear? It would be pretty cool to use a printed fabric and still see it... Does it NEED to be painted afterwards, or can it stay 'raw'???

How about instead of foam insulation, use cut-up old blue jeans to insulate. I saw on Planet Green (TV channel) that they get very good R values when insulating houses with blue jeans. It makes me wonder if it would be of any value on a TD...

I was also wondering about wrapping the whole TD in vinyl, like how they 'wrap' cars with advertisements. If you're willing to advertise, you may be able to have someone else pay for it.

[Postal_Dave]

This is mostly for Hillman:
West Marine makes a great Epoxy for fiberglass. A gallon of the Resin is $93 and you'll need almost a quart of hardener for $40. Now to cover a whole teardrop, you'll need the fiberglass cloth. 60 inches by 10 yards, (almost enough to cover almost 4 sheets of plywood) is $174.

A gallon of Titebond 2 is $20 at Lowe's. A set of jersey material for a bed sheet for a king size is around $20 from Walmart.

So if you buy 3 sheet sets and 2 gallons of TB2, you're at $100. For Fiberglass and Epoxy, you'd be at $310.
I lined the inside of a cardboard box with a piece of that sheet and TB2, then primed and painted it. 10 days ago I filled that box with water and it still hasn't leaked.
This is a great way to make cheap waterproofing.

To tell the truth, you probably don't need the cloth. at the same time I made the first box, I also made a box without cloth. I coated the box with just TB2 and then primed and painted it. I filled it with water at the same time that I did the cloth lined box. It's still holding water also.

That Titbond 2 is some great stuff. Also, I did an experiment with white Styrofoam and it didn't melt mine. Glues with CA in them, like super glues, will melt Styrofoam.

[GPW]

We've been buying cotton canvas CHEAP for years from a local awning company ... Much cheaper than any other source we've found, and it comes in different weights ... I have Oil paintings over 40 years old , still in Great shape ...painted on this "awning" canvas , and sized with regular Elmer's white glue ... Kept inside of course .... with T2 there would be no worry about living outside ... although I believe anyone taking the time and expense to build a TD , would provide some type of simple shelter for it anyway ...

Plus Fiberglass is "messy", epoxy is Toxic ... This T2 and canvas is like a craft project even the kiddies could help with , no worries ...
Water clean up is a delight , and you don't get a "buzz" from the solvent...

[Larry C]

This is mostly for Hillman:
West Marine makes a great Epoxy for fiberglass. A gallon of the Resin is $93 and you'll need almost a quart of hardener for $40. Now to cover a whole teardrop, you'll need the fiberglass cloth. 60 inches by 10 yards, (almost enough to cover almost 4 sheets of plywood) is $174.

A gallon of Titebond 2 is $20 at Lowe's. A set of jersey material for a bed sheet for a king size is around $20 from Walmart.

So if you buy 3 sheet sets and 2 gallons of TB2, you're at $100. For Fiberglass and Epoxy, you'd be at $310.
I lined the inside of a cardboard box with a piece of that sheet and TB2, then primed and painted it. 10 days ago I filled that box with water and it still hasn't leaked.
This is a great way to make cheap waterproofing.

To tell the truth, you probably don't need the cloth. at the same time I made the first box, I also made a box without cloth. I coated the box with just TB2 and then primed and painted it. I filled it with water at the same time that I did the cloth lined box. It's still holding water also.

That Titbond 2 is some great stuff. Also, I did an experiment with white Styrofoam and it didn't melt mine. Glues with CA in them, like super glues, will melt Styrofoam.

Postal,
If your going to make a true comparison, lets make it apples to apples.

Here's my an apples to apples comparison: 1.0 gal Raka epoxy (resin/hardener) $62. 10 Yds of my favorite glass 3.25 oz Style 120. $55=
$112

10oz. cotton decking canvas from Defenders This is real canvas, not bed sheet cloth. 10 yds. $150 Titebond $40 = $190

Also, if you must insist on using bed sheet as a comparison, I have bought 60" 2oz cloth for 50 cents per yard, and I have bought much cheaper epoxy. Also, polyester resin is even cheaper.

I think we should really stick to comparing apples to apples for this
purpose, wouldn't you agree?

[GPW]

Larry, that must be some NICE canvas @15 bucks a yard... I was thinking the 3.00/yd. stuff
The glue can be thinned as much as 75% water and still work fine for attaching the canvas , so you could buy a smaller amount and just thin it ... or make several TD coverings with a gallon ..

By my reckoning 10yds of the cheaper canvas and a quart of T2 should be under 50 bucks ... Solvent (water) from the tap ...

Doesn't everybody save their old sheets ??? Recycle !!!
Got an old Indian blanket, that might look cool !!!

[Postal_Dave]

The thread is called "Thrifty Alternatives...", so we're not going for Apples to apples here. We're looking for the cheapest and bare minimum way to waterproof a teardrop, not a boat.
Why use cotton canvas or fiberglass when a bed sheet will do just as good?
Why use Epoxy when TB2 does just as good?
Remember, the first page of this thread was about using old T-shirts for waterproofing. Well, it works.

I've started an experiment of taking 2, 1/4 inch thick pieces of luan and putting a coat of 2/3 TB2 (1/3 water) on one and putting straight TB2 on the other piece. I'm going to take a third piece of the luan and boil it to see how long it holds together. Then I'm going to try the other two pieces.
It's a simple durability test for thinned TB2 compared to straight TB2. Just in case anybody will be interested.

[Larry C]

Larry, that must be some NICE canvas @15 bucks a yard... I was thinking the 3.00/yd. stuff
The glue can be thinned as much as 75% water and still work fine for attaching the canvas , so you could buy a smaller amount and just thin it ... or make several TD coverings with a gallon ..

By my reckoning 10yds of the cheaper canvas and a quart of T2 should be under 50 bucks ... Solvent (water) from the tap ...

Doesn't everybody save their old sheets ??? Recycle !!!
Got an old Indian blanket, that might look cool !!!

I guess the term "Canvas" is used being loosely. I don't think of a cotton bed sheet as canvas. I was looking at what Laurie did on her build following the Wooden Boat article. It sure looks like canvas to me that she used, but I could be wrong.
All I did is go to a boat supply site, Defender Industries and looked up canvas. That's where the price came from.
As I said before, one could use cheap polyester resin and cheap fiberglass if cost was the only issue. It probably couldn't beat your bed sheet/glue method though. However, I think the final coatings are what keeps the water out, and from my experience, epoxy/glass is one of the best ways, but canvas would probably work just fine especially if a quality product was used.
Really..... in the whole scheme of of building a Teardrop Trailer, a $100 here or there isn't much.

[GPW]

OK, Let's call it "Fabric"... That opens up a world of materials to discussion ...
Now , not confusing a "covering" with "waterproofing"... Covering for me holds the wood fibers down , and provides a uniform surface for painting... Virtually eliminating those little splits and cracks that develop in plywood over time...
Waterproofing is something I do BEFORE covering ... For that I rely on the reliable ( used it for many years )mixture of 75% Mineral Spirits ,and 25% cheap polyurethane ... It makes a very thin solution that really penetrates the wood , encapsulating the wood fibers with poly... The Mineral Spirits evaporates , leaving the wood virtually waterproof ... I use several coats to make sure...especially on all end grains , and suspect areas... For this application , I think I'd glue the canvas on the bare wood and then waterproof the whole thing ...Then prime and paint ...

PS.. When driving screws int the build , we just scrape the threads over a beeswax candle , coating the threads.... makes it drive easy and waterproofs the hole ... Thrifty !!! Old School ,but works ...

Many modern alternatives for all this , but we find the modern materials are much more expensive , and usually more Toxic in nature... Are they Better ???? Schmaybe ' ??? Old school stuff has passed the "test of time "...

[GPW]

Just checking around ... here's a typical link to gallons of T3... T2 even cheaper... http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/ULTIMAT ... -Wood-Glue
Checked our Laundry/storage/junk room ... found a shelf with tons of old sheets (King size) Some nice , some pastel , some with flowery s**t all over it (hated it!)... all suitable for covering a number of projects ...

The only Disadvantage of using something thin like a sheet is you have to make sure the surfaces/and fabric are cleaned of all little sawdust. dirt bits ,etc. otherwise it will leave little irritating bumps/lumps in the covering ... grrrrrrr!!!! Brush and vacuum the surfaces before you cover... Keep your glue brush/roller Clean !!!
The thicker the covering fabric, obviously the less the "telegraphing" concern , but still ...

[Postal_Dave]

A quick heads up on my last experiment with TB2. I took 3 pieces of cheap luan 1/4" thick plywood that were 2"x5" in size. A bare piece I boiled for over 5 minutes expecting the glue to melt and layers of the plywood to fall off, But they didn't. The layers stayed on. That killed the experiment for checking for de-lamination. Silly me.

Anyway, I took the pieces that were coated with TB2 and threw them in, one at a time. For both the watered down TB2 and the straight TB2 pieces, the glue melted within a minute. It stayed on the wood though.

No surprises here, just thought you might want to know.
GPW, Thank you for the Mineral Spirits and Poly information. I'll be sure to use that.