Our Next Mega-Mini

[Shadow Catcher]

Unfortunately as with virtually every other promise this one went by the way side, I will be pursuing the legal today.
One of the difficulties has been that as a Christian dealing with another Christian how do I deal with the biblical strictures in today's world.
Matt 18:15-17
15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. NIV
This has to be taken in the historical and cultural context of the time where the courts were corrupt and the judges unbeleavers (this later more significant as it had much stronger implications than it does today).
How do you follow this when distance is involved and I do not know which church Eric attends...
I may try and find a Christian lawyer, there are Christian resolution services, and I do not want to do any more than I absolutely have to.

[Cliffmeister2000]

I may try and find a Christian lawyer...

Good luck!
Seriously, it is tough. You might go to an Elder or Pastor in your church, and see if they would get in touch with an Elder or Pastor is Eric's church.

[Oasis Maker]

Unfortunately as with virtually every other promise this one went by the way side, I will be pursuing the legal today.
One of the difficulties has been that as a Christian dealing with another Christian how do I deal with the biblical strictures in today's world.
Matt 18:15-17
15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. NIV
This has to be taken in the historical and cultural context of the time where the courts were corrupt and the judges unbeleavers (this later more significant as it had much stronger implications than it does today).
How do you follow this when distance is involved and I do not know which church Eric attends...
I may try and find a Christian lawyer, there are Christian resolution services, and I do not want to do any more than I absolutely have to.

Shadow Catcher, have you ever heard the saying, "People can be so heavenly minded they have no earthly sense." I'm a believer as well, so if you're going to use the bible as a reference point with this experience, I suggest you don't cherry pick ONE passage, but do as bible says, and put scripture upon scripture for full understanding.

Doesn't it appear this person is more a wolf in sheep's clothing for example? This person has proven not to be up to the lofty standard (or scripture) you are affording him. There's plenty of other scriptures that will more accurately reveal what you are dealing with. Personally, enough has transpired that I would only refer to the bible of street wisdom for full understanding of what HAS happened to your MONEY. (IMHO)

Scott

[bobhenry]

Yep sometimes even the best of us get real fed up.........


Jesus entered the Temple and began to drive out all the people buying and selling animals for sacrifice. He knocked over the tables of the money changers and the chairs of those selling doves.

[starleen2]

You've turned the other cheek, you've walked the extra mile, you've given the cloak of your back ($$$). its time to settle matter in a way that is most fitting. If the biblical pattern for reconciliation has been followed (Matthew 18:15-17) and the offending party is still in the wrong, in some instances a lawsuit might be justified.

Although God is the Supreme Judge, He did instruct us to also obey the laws of the land. If a fellow Christian is breaking those laws, as in a Contracted Agreement, or has in some manner broken any other viable law recognized by our country's judicial system...then YES...you have the right as a citizen who happens to also be a Christian to avail yourself of the Judgment system that exists according to the laws of your land.

Until you have faced the circumstance you won't really know. But it is a decision to be made prayerfully.

[Shadow Catcher]

I am very aware of what the Bible says and as I said it is culturally and historically relevant to a specific time and place and as such must be taken in context and as in this case applied when possible. In my effort to follow the guide lines, my resources are drawing a blank, i.e. there was at one time a reference in one church to his membership and that is no longer there, and considering time distance and his work schedule it is essentially hopeless. Finding a Christian lawyer in Elkhart is also drawing a blank so I am looking for law firms that deal with this sort of situation and prefer "mediation" and have narrowed it down to a couple and will be calling later this morning.

[CliffinGA]

Maybe its just the way i was raised back in Tewas but I would have already traveled up to his shop, contacted the police there and then gotten my trailer or had him arrested for fraud. If that didn't work I would introduce him to something a lil meaner but I would atleast have my stuff or my money.

CLIFF

[iplay10us2]

Maybe its just the way i was raised back in Tewas but I would have already traveled up to his shop, contacted the police there and then gotten my trailer or had him arrested for fraud. If that didn't work I would introduce him to something a lil meaner but I would atleast have my stuff or my money.

CLIFF

I'm with you on this. This has been going on for over a year. It's called stealing in my book. It's one thing to turn the other cheek, and another to be a doormat.

[GuyllFyre]

I don't see this as a "Christian" thing. Since he's already broken a couple of the commandments, you know, lying and stealing, that's not the influence you need to exert.

If the Golden Rule doesn't work, it's time for Moses' Law. Do this by applying a little "Bible Treatment."

This means, take a large bound copy, (King James version works well), and solidly hit him in the head with it a few times. He should see reason pretty quickly after that.

FYI, I'm an Atheist, so sorry if this offends but regardless he's no Christian.

No good person of *ANY* sort would do this to another, religion or no.

[Shadow Catcher]

There are a number of problems with this approach, I do not know the current location of the trailer, the shop is no longer, and Eric is out of town most of the time. I will stick with the minimal approach, go with a lawyers recommendation.

[CliffinGA]

Shadow one thing is go down to your police dept and ask them what can be done. In the case of fraud they can sometimes be the PD of the case and issue a warrant for Eric.

Cliff

[S. Heisley]

If he owns anything, you can put a lean on it until you get either your goods or your money back. That way, he can't sell whatever has the lean on it...kind of insurance.

[vtx1029]

It's time to take real action contact the pd in his area. Ask them what you have to do to get your property back. I'm sure they will also give you a number to a lawyer that deals with this type of thing. Then show up in person. Not much will happen over a phone call you need to be there!

It's time to stop being nice and realize this guy reached in your pocket and ran off with your money.

Your case is very similar to a friend of mine. He's been building a motorcycle as a memorial for his son. He's a very passive Christian man and his only goal is to build this motorcycle how his son dreamed. He's been building it for 3-4 years now and been ripped off well over 100k by 4 or 5 bike builders. He tried to believe peoples word and that he was being told the truth, by the time he shows up it too late and thousands have been lost.

I'm hoping for the best for you but I fear it's too late.

[knockabout]

So what has happened in the last month? knockabout

[Shadow Catcher]

We have lawyers in Elkhart and we have told Eric he has till the end of the month to deliver the trailer.
The good thing that has come out of this however is that that I will be working with Ryan at Lefty Originals. I had contacted him to help finish the trailer and I am now building a new web site for him and we have had input into design.