Wood Sealer - Water Based vs Oil/Poly

Anything to do with mechanical, construction etc

Postby 48Rob » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:05 am

Thanks Rob. The thing I like about the oil finish is that it's easy to maintain, as well as apply. I can just put more on over the scratches if it bothers me.

With varnish, eventually it peels; or if you have a scratch, you have to sand well and reapply.

At least that's my thinking. Make sense?


Dant,

Sure, what works best for you makes the most sense! :thumbsup:
Basic wipe on finish is very easy, and long lasting.

Peeling varnish is another issue...
It happens because the surface wasn't cleaned properly before application, moisture got under the surface, or because a "hard" varnish was applied over a "soft" varnish or paint.

In the boating world I can see how that could happen easily.
Beyond the constant threat of water everywhere, Teak oils and other finishing/protective oils might be applied, and then someone comes along and decides to varnish without proper surface prep...

In the housing arena, I see it often when a homeowner varnishes a front door, or a deck.
Generally their problems come from not getting the surface clean, then from varnishing only the parts "they can see" missing the top, bottom, and edges, and then from someone deciding to try a "new" varnish; perhaps a very hard polyurethane, not understanding they are applying it over a very soft spar varnish.

Learning curves are everywhere! :?

Rob
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Postby GPW » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:53 am

Yeah , surface prep is everything !!! We Lightly sand all wood before even sealing it ... seems like once you break the outer layer , the wood becomes more absorbent (prettier too) ... something to do with the air, pollutants , dirt, etc. that forms a sorta' skin on the outer surface... especially if the woods been sitting around for a while ...
The Min/poly mix is not intended as a finish , just a sealer ... and Should be painted over , varnished , whatever with something UV resistant ... I prefer an opaque pigmented finish as it blocks the UV rays more effectively ... Couldn't help but notice the Old Timers using Aluminum paint ... the metal in the paint blocking most anything harmful ... Their trailers lasted for years and years ... even outside !! :o
I've owned wooden boats in the past , varnished ... they lived in a garage when not fishing.. Every year it was go around , sand , touch up , we even waxed them .... lots of work ... I remember the old man's chris -craft... varnished mahogany (pretty !!!) He got tired of varnishing and painted it with the then new Epoxy ... :shock: Never did to it much after that ... ruined the look ... grrrr!!! :roll:
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Postby GPW » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:46 am

Sealer test .... a simple way to determine if you have enough sealer applied is to just put a drop of water on the surface... if it just sits there , you're good , if it looks like it's being absorbed in any way , you need more sealer ... Non scientific , but works !!! :thumbsup:
You can also do this test on the more susceptible end grain ... Probably the best place to test ... If it works on the end grain , you're probably good everywhere else ... :thumbsup:
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Postby CliffinGA » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:10 pm

Pk guys quick question here, do you fill the screw hole first and then use the min/poly mix or use the min/poly mix and then fill your holes?

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Postby Rlowell » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:20 pm

CliffinGA wrote:Pk guys quick question here, do you fill the screw hole first and then use the min/poly mix or use the min/poly mix and then fill your holes?

Cliff
I filled the holes first.
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Postby atahoekid » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:49 pm

48Rob wrote:
I plan on sealing my trailer with the poly/varnish mix. I put three coats on some scrap pieces of plywood and lumber and threw the pieces in the backyard for the fall and winter.


Hi Mel,

I'll be interested to see your results!

Three coats sounds a little light, but it may work out for you.
No matter what products you decide to use, complete encapsulation is the key. :thumbsup:

Rob


The three coats was just to see if it would work. I'm planning on at least 5 maybe 6 for the real thing. With this latest winter storm we're getting I might not be able to get to the scraps and my trailer frame, which is currently buried under 9 feet of snow until May or June. I prayed for a short winter but the man above had very different ideas. I had an ambitious build schedule (camp-able by fall) but this long winter will put a crimp into that idea :( :(
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Postby 48Rob » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:53 am

I might not be able to get to the scraps and my trailer frame, which is currently buried under 9 feet of snow until May or June.



You must live in a really special place to put up with winters like that! :?

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Postby Deryk the Pirate » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:34 am

If I was retired I might not mind living in a place that got so much snow. But when doin the dailey commute it would get old for me real fast lol. But then again people in the tri state area dont seem to know how to drive in snow. 4 wheel drive doesnt give ya the ability to drive on the highway at 70 mph and stop on a dime lol.
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Postby atahoekid » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:54 pm

48Rob wrote:
I might not be able to get to the scraps and my trailer frame, which is currently buried under 9 feet of snow until May or June.



You must live in a really special place to put up with winters like that! :?

Rob


Yeah, Lake Tahoe is great place but this is the toughest winter since I moved here 12 years ago. Plus I have great neighbors and the solitude in my neighborhood is awesome. I'm not sure I'd do too well in the suburbs again. Life in the mountains is pretty good, I just want to start building my teardrop!!! :( :(
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Postby Billy K » Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:19 am

Good stuff here ...

If, you seal ALL the edge grain and in/outside faces of 3/4" solid walls....

1)What type or brand of glue do you use to put roof spars in their notches

2) What glue for attaching the same "wall" to the edge of the metal trailer frame? {will also have screws through bottom of the wall and frame}

.....??....
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Postby 48Rob » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:30 am

Hi Billy,

My choice is polyurethane construction adhesive.

<img src="http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41THOyEu%2BWL._SL500_AA300_.jpg">

Where ever you have to penetrate the finished wood, it should be sealed.

For screws, I install the screw, then remove the screw, install sealer (not polyurethane varnish, but caulk, etc) then reinstall the screw.
If I'm bolting things together, the same general practice, but I'll dry fit everything first, with fasteners, then disassemble, and create a small pocket on the backside of the parts to be mated using a countersink bit.
overfill the pocket, and then reassemble with glue, sealer and fasteners.
The idea is if water gets between the finished parts, it can't gain entry through the break in the finish created by the holes made for/by the fasteners.

The epoxy crowd avoids some of this by using epoxy as the "glue" to fasten parts together, avoiding the need to pre encapsulate the backsides of mated pieces, as the epoxy acts as a sealer as well as a glue.

Rob
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