Melted bushing from a powdercoated torsion axle?????

[eamarquardt]

Ya know, if this were happening to me I'd be calling them daily.....

Give em heck till they capitulate!!!!!!!

Gus, gotta love ya. But philosophically we might disagree..................

G'nite Gus.


Bruce

Never let it be said I'm not open to input. However:

Unless I'm not paying attention:

1) Sawyer called em (and spoke to the GM) and they "opined" that they didn't see any reason why one couldn't powder coat their assembly. To me that's a "good to go" to powder coat their product and not void a warranty. If Flexride suspected there might be an issue, then would have been the time to express it. I was taught, at considerable government expense), it's ok to say: "Sir (or Mam as the case might be), I do not know but I will find out", then do so, and report back.!

2) They have been "less than responsive" as they have been reached out to by member(s) of this forum and, to date, haven't provided a written/verbal or any response of any value (other than as noted below) as far as I can tell.

3) It has been suggested (I can't verify at this time that they changed their FAQ answers after the problem was called to their attention but let's for the moment assume they did) that they have updated their site to "cover their posteriors/tracks" without "paying" for the information that was provided them (as in powder coating can be a problem). Sneakly, cowardly, CS at best, IMHO.

4) Sawyer, surreptitiously, called again, inquired about powder coating their product and was AGAIN informed there wasn't an issue.

5) It appears that other torsion axles have been powder coated w/o any reported problems. Soooooo, what's changed and what responsibility does Flexride have when characteristics of their product change or they aren't in line with industry norms (as in other axles can be powder coated, why not theirs)? Should they be responsible for changing their policies and giving customers clear straight answers to their questions or should their customers bear the expense of finding out the limitations of Flexride's products with little to no help from Flexride?

I think when you sell a product you have a reasonable responsibility to know the limitations/performance envelope of your product. It appears that Flexride didn't know those limitations, has learned something at the expense of one of their customers, but is unwilling to share in the expense of this learning experience. There is always some "middle ground". The expense of making this situation right as a percentage of their budget is a pitance and I think that they ought to do the right thing and will be calling em on Monday to express my thoughts unless Sawyer requests that I keep my nose out of it.

Based on what has been shared to date, I think Sawyer performed reasonable "due dilligence" before and after powder coating his axle and wasn't give clear straight answers from Flexride, IMHO.

If Flexride thinks they are unfairly being maligned, bashed, blackmailed, etc. I'd like to see their thoughts on the matter and I don't see why there'd be a problem posting any reply of theirs on the forum.

That's my logic.

Cheers,

Gus

[Steve_Cox]

It has become obvious to this writer that UCF has taken a lesson in "Global Ethics" which is quickly becoming the norm in this country. The new order thinks there is no harm in deceiving customers. The harm is in getting caught. A few hundred dollars worth of "good will" would have turned this thread into a small gold mine of customer relations. Now is not the time to sweep this turd under the rug.

HMFIC......

gotta love Gus on meds....

[eamarquardt]

HMFIC......

gotta love Gus on meds....

Yes I'm using again, after an 8 year hiatus. 12.5 to 25 mg of Nucynta/day (yes it's a "controlled" substance) with an occasional Vicodin 5/500 thrown in for grins. The PDR sez the max dose of Nucynta is 600mg/day so I'm way under the radar!!!!! My pain specialist will provide me with 100mg/day! I, simply put, am living every abuser's dream as my doc's will give me virtually anything my heart desires. Opiates: "Never leave home without em."

However, the past two months have been pretty brutal. More to follow after I get your email into Yahoo. Will send a "short medical history" of mine. The last dr to read it was surprised I was still alive, married, talking to my two boyz, and trying to be active and productive.

Check this out:

http://www.thecheapplace.com/products/H ... harge.html

Gotta get me one of those!!!!! For those with little to no sense of humor I say (as I have HMFIC on my "business card" (copy to follow)) HMFIC stands for "Head Master Fabricator In Charge". Occasionally, I try not to offend people (but the stars have to be in precise alignment)!

I may be a PITA but my logic is logical.

Cheers,

Gus

[Trackstriper]

'Morning Gus


I don't know how to do the split quote thing so I'll use blue ink!

Never let it be said I'm not open to input. However:

Unless I'm not paying attention:

1) Sawyer called em (and spoke to the GM) and they "opined" that they didn't see any reason why one couldn't powder coat their assembly. To me that's a "good to go" to powder coat their product and not void a warranty. If Flexride suspected there might be an issue, then would have been the time to express it. I was taught, at considerable government expense), it's ok to say: "Sir (or Mam as the case might be), I do not know but I will find out", then do so, and report back.!

I musta missed the part where Sawyer asked prior to baking...help me understand.

2) They have been "less than responsive" as they have been reached out to by member(s) of this forum and, to date, haven't provided a written/verbal or any response of any value (other than as noted below) as far as I can tell.

True, and I think it might be beneficial for all if they would communicate from their side.

3) It has been suggested (I can't verify at this time that they changed their FAQ answers after the problem was called to their attention but let's for the moment assume they did) that they have updated their site to "cover their posteriors/tracks" without "paying" for the information that was provided them (as in powder coating can be a problem). Sneakly, cowardly, CS at best, IMHO.

It's very small dollars involved as far as CYA actions. Maybe look at the change as actually being responsive, hey, they even threw in the fact...free of charge...that it might not be a good idea to immerse their Flexiride axle in molten zinc at 850F.

4) Sawyer, surreptitiously, called again, inquired about powder coating their product and was AGAIN informed there wasn't an issue.

Again, help me on the time line here...

5) It appears that other torsion axles have been powder coated w/o any reported problems. Soooooo, what's changed and what responsibility does Flexride have when characteristics of their product change or they aren't in line with industry norms (as in other axles can be powder coated, why not theirs)? Should they be responsible for changing their policies and giving customers clear straight answers to their questions or should their customers bear the expense of finding out the limitations of Flexride's products with little to no help from Flexride?

I'm still undecided about other torsion axles being successfully powder coated after assembly. Prior to assembly, yes, powder coated and galvanized, no argument there.

Other torsion axles are constructed differently. Apples and oranges, both good fruit but not the same. Dexter, Henschen, AL-KO, Reliable, and Tie Down all use rubber cords in a sort of rolling/compression action. I think Flexiride is unique in that it bonds the torsion shaft to the rubber, then the suspension action twists the rubber in shear. Totally different system. I don't think...but could be wrong...that the other manufacturers use an outboard bushing to more precisely locate the axle movement. I don't know if the bushing is necessary or just a sophisticated touch.

Don't know about changing policy...well, it is at face value....but it could also be viewed as just adding more useful information they perhaps didn't see a need for previously. That is due diligence.

I think when you sell a product you have a reasonable responsibility to know the limitations/performance envelope of your product. It appears that Flexride didn't know those limitations, has learned something at the expense of one of their customers, but is unwilling to share in the expense of this learning experience. There is always some "middle ground". The expense of making this situation right as a percentage of their budget is a pitance and I think that they ought to do the right thing and will be calling em on Monday to express my thoughts unless Sawyer requests that I keep my nose out of it.

My guess is that their engineers do know the limitations...they are very specific about not welding on the tube or brackets, that heat can damage the rubber if not carefully applied. Truly, I just don't think they ever considered someone powder coating on their own. ...could have been an honest omission...their FAQs are pretty comprehensive otherwise.

Agree with you wholeheartedly about a middle ground. My 6x12 cargo trailer came with an 4"drop spring axle that had visibly too much toe-in. Of course I didn't see it until it was home. The old "tail-light warranty" was to no effect. The dealer wasn't very responsive, the manufacturer said not their problem, and Dexter said it was good when it left their shop. I've been down this road myself. Final solution was an offer to buy a new axle from Dexter at OEM price. They were nice about it. I just couldn't pin the problem on anyone in specific. I was even at fault 'cause I didn't have a good enough eye when looking over the trailer before pulling away. It was only a little out of spec, but something that would have bothered me forever if I didn't deal with it. New axle now in place.

Based on what has been shared to date, I think Sawyer performed reasonable "due dilligence" before and after powder coating his axle and wasn't give clear straight answers from Flexride, IMHO.

May depend upon when he asked Flexiride if it was OK to coat the axle. Maybe there was lack on knowledge on the part of the powdercoater. But I'm with you on the logic.

If Flexride thinks they are unfairly being maligned, bashed, blackmailed, etc. I'd like to see their thoughts on the matter and I don't see why there'd be a problem posting any reply of theirs on the forum.

Agreed. I think maybe it's just me that thinks they could be getting a raw deal out of this. I do wish they would be more forthcoming.

That's my logic.

Cheers,

Gus

Hope your pain eases, take some more meds on me if ya need to. It's along weekend sir. Bruce

[Trackstriper]

OK gang, I'll pretend to be the Flexiride sales guy and head cheerleader in charge. Here's some pics and details about what we're talking about.

I have a pair of 1400# Flexiride half-axles that were purchased a couple of years ago when I though t I'd be building a 1000-1200# TTT. Went with a cargo trailer instead. I thought the design concept was well done, the torsion arms are replaceable and adjustable. The torsion arm/spindles are one-piece machined forgings; split, with a clamp bolt to hold them onto the splined torsion shaft protruding from the axle tube. The bolts ride in a machined groove in the splines to keep them from lateral movement.

1.50" diameter shaft, 60 splines on the end, somewhat hardened steel but still machinable. In the case of the half-axles, the outer steel tube is 2.5" square outside, with an 1/8" wall. The white nylon bushing is about 3/4" thick or deep, judging from what I could feel by probing and acts to firmly locate the spline end of the shaft.

Here's a general view of the right-side axle, upside down in the photo. Obviously, I liked the idea of brakes...thank you Gus!:



Detail showing clamping arrangement, remember axle is upside down (duh, photographer) so the nut is on the bottom side, bolt not likely....save Murphy....to fall out if nut worked it's way off:



Splined shaft with arm removed. Note welded retaining ring holding white nylon bushing in place (visible in upper right & lower right corners...with a little black paint on it). Gus is correct in that the welds could be ground and bushing & retainer replaced if necessary....but I very much doubt they'd sell you the parts for liability concerns. Also note the clamp bolt retaining groove:



Last picture. This is the other end of the tube with the actual shaft visible. This is a 1400# per pair rated axle. The only difference between it and the 2000# set is the length of the rubber and torsion shaft, which has been cut short to de-rate the axle. You can see the saw marks on the shaft and rubber. The shaft is inset about an inch, so I haven't figured that part out yet. I was obviously cut prior to being inserted into the tube, and I couldn't find an inner steel tube by probing this open end...but maybe there is one present. You can see how the rubber is bound to the shaft and there are no "cords" involved as with the other manufacturers. Tough to tell from this photo but the rubber fills the entire space between the shaft and the tube:



Hope this helps some.

[eamarquardt]

Holy horse snot Trackstriper, I hope you didn't saw a perfectly good axle apart on my account. But, it's fun to see how they're put together. I'm impressed with your search for "truth, justice, and the American way"!

I'm not entirely sure one could grind one apart, use new parts, and put it back together. If it is possible a couple of new parts would definately be required but Flexride should have em available. It certainly wouldn't be cost effective for Flexride, but if Sawyer did the grunt work for them (as we all know building a teardrop is as much a labor of love as being 100% cost effective if one assigns any value to one's labor) disassembled the unit in preparation for rework it could be part of a "middle ground" solution.

But, Flexride ain't talkin. Yet!

Cheers,

Gus

[Trackstriper]

Holy horse snot Trackstriper, I hope you didn't saw a perfectly good axle apart on my account.

Adam West enters stage left....George Reeves from the right...
Anything for my friends. The bandsaw just went to work...but it's OK, I'll weld it all back together tomorrow. Just in case you needed another look later this afternoon..... Much later!

[Sawyer]

Alright folks, I'm going to try my damnedest not to form a lynch mob here! I really don't think it's fair to apply full blame to anyone involved, however if I wanted to divvy some blame out, I will happily take 50% of it (due to my lack of preemptive research and general ignorance), and I'd like to apply 20% to Flexiride (for not having sufficient warning not to powdercoat) and 30% to the distributor (for their lack of helpful customer service and denial of any possibility of fault). In all of our phone calls, we found out that Flexiride seems to only build half axles, but they sell the parts to build the full beam axles to distributors, who do the assembly and welding themselves. Flexiride seemed to think there was a possibility that the distributor was using their OLD stock of bushings from years back which were made of a different material with a lower melting point. This is why I was upset that the distributor wasn't willing to cop to the possibility of the bushing not being Nylon 6-6.

Anyway, we have spent WAY too much time talking on phones, emailing, & researching, time that would have been better used BUILDING TEARDROPS!!!! The final word on this is that we are getting a new axle at wholesale cost from the distributor. This is a happy ending after all. It was an expensive lesson to learn, but an important one.

Thanks very much to all for your concern, input, help, opinions, etc, but I'm tired and want to put this whole thing behind me! I hold no grudges (life is too short for that) against manufacturer, distributor, or otherwise, and consider the whole thing a learning experience...

[dh]

Ok, I have to ask, is the new axle getting powder coated before assembly???

[Sawyer]

Ok, I have to ask, is the new axle getting powder coated before assembly???

The new axle is getting sprayed with bedliner...

[dh]

The fact that the axles are assembleb by the distributer sheds some light on lot of things. Mainly, why they don't have a lot of distributers. That is probably the entire reason for the bushing, the distributer can't ''bow'' the axle like Dexter does, so they use a bushing instead.

[Larry C]

Alright folks, I'm going to try my damnedest not to form a lynch mob here! I really don't think it's fair to apply full blame to anyone involved, however if I wanted to divvy some blame out, I will happily take 50% of it (due to my lack of preemptive research and general ignorance), and I'd like to apply 20% to Flexiride (for not having sufficient warning not to powdercoat) and 30% to the distributor (for their lack of helpful customer service and denial of any possibility of fault). In all of our phone calls, we found out that Flexiride seems to only build half axles, but they sell the parts to build the full beam axles to distributors, who do the assembly and welding themselves. Flexiride seemed to think there was a possibility that the distributor was using their OLD stock of bushings from years back which were made of a different material with a lower melting point. This is why I was upset that the distributor wasn't willing to cop to the possibility of the bushing not being Nylon 6-6.

Anyway, we have spent WAY too much time talking on phones, emailing, & researching, time that would have been better used BUILDING TEARDROPS!!!! The final word on this is that we are getting a new axle at wholesale cost from the distributor. This is a happy ending after all. It was an expensive lesson to learn, but an important one.

Thanks very much to all for your concern, input, help, opinions, etc, but I'm tired and want to put this whole thing behind me! I hold no grudges (life is too short for that) against manufacturer, distributor, or otherwise, and consider the whole thing a learning experience...

I know you are not trying to bash anyone in particular about your problem..

BUT......

What I find interesting is the lack of concern by Flexride about their "Image" If real Customer Service is non existent, I personally will not be buying their axle!!

Where I work we regularly give in to customer complaints even though we know it's clearly the customers problem.

The issue is not who is right, t's the pursuit of Superb Customer Service, and it really does pay off! We (my employer) continue to grow at 25% a year, even in this economy, because "THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT" No matter what it costs! Keep them happy and they will return!

This problem you are having, regardless of who is at fault has cost Flexride way more than they will ever know. These posts will be available on the
internet for years to come.

$.02

Larry