Bad Start, Near Disaster

[Thomcat316]

Being a kayaker and kayak retailer....

The ideal way to secure a long skinny thing of any sort on top of your vehicle or trailer is to run a total of four separate lines from the front and back of the object to the front and back of the vehicle, forming an inverted "V" at each end. These lines should be slightly snug, but not tight, especially if you are carrying a rotomolded plastic kayak.

If you are carrying two kayaks you'll need twice as many bow and stern lines, making two asymmetric "V" shapes at each end.

You should also use two belly straps per boat, using cam straps and NOT ratchet straps. The belly straps should be run to make a continuous loop in the form of an inverted "U" with the ends going around the load bars of the roof rack and the "U" going over the boat.

Ideal attachment points for bow and stern lines are "Hood Loops", sold at a kayak/canoe shop near you. You can also get "Rope Ratchets" and "Cam Straps" from the same folks. If you choose to use Rope Ratchets make sure you drill out the pin holding the hook and replace the hooks at both ends with carabiners so the hooks can't come undone on rough roads.

And now for the rationale for all this:
Secure lines and straps keep boats on your car.
Overly tight lines and straps crush and deform your boats - especially plastic kayaks.
You can have secure (just snug) lines going to all four corners of your vehicle and withstand insane windloads - I have personally driven through windstorms with my 17' wood touring kayak on top of my car at upwards 80MPH road speed - diagonal wind speeds exceeded Cat 2 hurricane conditions. The kayak was on foam blocks set on Thule loadbars, the front and rear tiedowns were as described, as were the belly straps. The kayak pivoted up to six inches from side to side a couple times, but remained very securely attached to the car. It works. In calmer conditions I've had my tandem canoe up over 90MPH with less dramatic results - it just sits there.

Photos of stuff:

Hood Loops


Hood Loops Installed


Cam Straps


Rope Ratchet - 1/4" version

[Larry C]

Being a kayaker and kayak retailer....

The ideal way to secure a long skinny thing of any sort on top of your vehicle or trailer is to run a total of four separate lines from the front and back of the object to the front and back of the vehicle, forming an inverted "V" at each end. These lines should be slightly snug, but not tight, especially if you are carrying a rotomolded plastic kayak.

If you are carrying two kayaks you'll need twice as many bow and stern lines, making two asymmetric "V" shapes at each end.

You should also use two belly straps per boat, using cam straps and NOT ratchet straps. The belly straps should be run to make a continuous loop in the form of an inverted "U" with the ends going around the load bars of the roof rack and the "U" going over the boat.

Ideal attachment points for bow and stern lines are "Hood Loops", sold at a kayak/canoe shop near you. You can also get "Rope Ratchets" and "Cam Straps" from the same folks. If you choose to use Rope Ratchets make sure you drill out the pin holding the hook and replace the hooks at both ends with carabiners so the hooks can't come undone on rough roads.

And now for the rationale for all this:
Secure lines and straps keep boats on your car.
Overly tight lines and straps crush and deform your boats - especially plastic kayaks.
You can have secure (just snug) lines going to all four corners of your vehicle and withstand insane windloads - I have personally driven through windstorms with my 17' wood touring kayak on top of my car at upwards 80MPH road speed - diagonal wind speeds exceeded Cat 2 hurricane conditions. The kayak was on foam blocks set on Thule loadbars, the front and rear tiedowns were as described, as were the belly straps. The kayak pivoted up to six inches from side to side a couple times, but remained very securely attached to the car. It works. In calmer conditions I've had my tandem canoe up over 90MPH with less dramatic results - it just sits there.

Thomcat...
Great description! This should be a sticky.. The life you save may be the family behind you!!

Here's some pics of my roof rack for carry my racing boats thousands of miles: Mine on the right, a different one on the left.
[/img]

Notice the loose ropes. Tight is not right!



For kayaks, I prefer kayak saddles with cam straps (NEVER NEVER ratchet straps). Saddles are not as easy to load as rollers, but they are rock solid in cross winds!



Larry C

[mary and bob]

Is it possible that with some vehicles, or various lengths of kayaks or canoes, that the bow or stern lines could rub off the vehicle's paint? And what do you do to prevent this? The hood straps are interesting, but not all car bodies or hoods are the same. Some great info in all the replies, thanks.

[Thomcat316]

Is it possible that with some vehicles, or various lengths of kayaks or canoes, that the bow or stern lines could rub off the vehicle's paint? And what do you do to prevent this? The hood straps are interesting, but not all car bodies or hoods are the same. Some great info in all the replies, thanks.

Hood Loops use a pair of your fender bolts to attach, which makes them almost universal - the only vehicle I've seen to date that they didn't work for was a late-model Porsche Cayman, which has no visible bolts. That attachment point also allows them to be out of sight the rest of the time; all you have to do is lift the hood a few inches and they fold back into the engine compartment.

They are also cheap. Retail price is about $5-6. Just make sure you buy them from a local paddlesports shop - we need all the business we can get.

Good, cheap, easy, fast - sounds like the setup for a joke, eh?

Have fun!
Whitney

[Larry C]

Is it possible that with some vehicles, or various lengths of kayaks or canoes, that the bow or stern lines could rub off the vehicle's paint? And what do you do to prevent this? The hood straps are interesting, but not all car bodies or hoods are the same. Some great info in all the replies, thanks.

Very good point. From the photos of my 1992 truck, you can see I keep my vehicles in good shape. The photos were taken in 2008. On my truck the bug deflector prevented the ropes from damaging the paint. This has been the best solution I have ever used. Any abrasion on the bug deflector can be buffed out easily. Also, leaving the ropes loose helps prevent abrasion.

There are many tricks I have used to prevent this abrasion over the years on many vehicles. I have never hurt the paint from using bow and stern ropes on any vehicle by taking a few simple precautions.

Here's a few I have used in the past, others may have more suggestions.

Wax contact area frequently
The best solution for the hood is the bug deflector
Wrap soft (microfiber works great) cloth around rope at contact point
Attach 1-2 layers of duct tape on vehicle at contact point before each trip. easily removed without hurting paint.
Attach clear protective auto stone chip film at contact point. This works good and is almost invisible.
If canoe/kayak is directly above the bumpers, tie downs won't touch paint
Rope is better than flat straps as it won't vibrate as much in the wind, and has less contact area

Larry C

[mary and bob]

Larry: How about that foam pipe insulation? I have a homemade kayak rack that sets in my pickup bed, cradles made of 1" flat stock reinforced with 1" steel angle attached to a framework of 2" steel angle. I use that foam tubular pipe insulation on the cradles for the kayaks to set on. Also use it with bikes on a bike rack. Cheap and cuts easy. Bob

[Larry C]

Larry: How about that foam pipe insulation? I have a homemade kayak rack that sets in my pickup bed, cradles made of 1" flat stock reinforced with 1" steel angle attached to a framework of 2" steel angle. I use that foam tubular pipe insulation on the cradles for the kayaks to set on. Also use it with bikes on a bike rack. Cheap and cuts easy. Bob

Pipe insulation may be too abrasive, but wrap it with microfiber cloth and it might work ok.

Larry

[angib]

It's not relevant, but I can't resist showing you an different ratio of boat to vehicle, albeit with similar bow ropes:



That Daewoo's 3-cylinder 0.8 litre engine put out a mind-bending 50hp, so with the boat on top the top speed sunk from about 85 to 75. But it proved to be a very good high speed cruiser, as I think everyone who saw it in their mirror thought that they had better get out of the way of the accident that they could see was going to happen.... Surprisingly, the car's superb stability in crosswinds wasn't noticeably harmed - it rolled a bit but still ran straight.

[mary and bob]

Here's an update on the rack failure. I previously posted that the bolts holding the load bars to the foot pads had broken. Upon examining the rack today I found that it was the plastic [or similar material] footpads that broke, the nuts broke the tops out of the footpads. Again if the kayaks had been secured better other than just bungeed to the load bars this probably wouldn't have happened. Another odd thing is that looking at various websites that sell Thule racks, I can't find the same as what I have, although I had seen it earlier this year on Amazon and Eastern Mountain Sports and some other sites. Also another odd thing is that most of the fit guides don't even list Honda vehicles. Wonder if this rack design was a problem and got discontinued. Bob