Thread turned into an Occupy T&TTT Thread! We the 99%

[parnold]

Here's a pretty clever "occupy" idea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JlxbKtB ... ata_player

I have a friend who did it. Took pictures of the envelope with the wood shim in, and dropped it in his mailbox.

i hate to say this, but i really, really like this. we get tons of this stuff. i am going to start doing this today. thanks zach!

Ditto!

[Mightydog]

Here's a pretty clever "occupy" idea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JlxbKtB ... ata_player

I have a friend who did it. Took pictures of the envelope with the wood shim in, and dropped it in his mailbox.

i hate to say this, but i really, really like this. we get tons of this stuff. i am going to start doing this today. thanks zach!

Ditto!

As noble as the idea might seem, it will probably be largely unseen by anyone who has any ability to change the situation. It will probably be seen by one of us 99%. In the end, it will only make you--and only you-- feel a little happier for a moment. That's kind of self-serving, in my opinion.

My company has a business reply permit. When people start to rage against our machine by sending wood, printed pieces and bricks, I take them back to the USPS who credits my postage account. You're not really hurting the business to whom you are sending your little rant. You're hurting an institution, the postal service, who employs people like the rest of us 99%.

When you're looking at a stack of 1,000 business reply envelopes with statements and payments, you can feel the little protest pieces and kick them to the side to open later or, better yet, have the interns open when they come in. When the little bundles of acrimony are finally opened, if they don't have transactions, they get tossed without the slightest look at the contents. If you spend money printing a protest, the next person who will probably see it will be at the recycling plant who, by the way, is one of us 99%.

[parnold]

Mightydog, you just took the fun out of my getting home tonight and opening my mailbox.

[eaglesdare]

Mightydog, you just took the fun out of my getting home tonight and opening my mailbox.

ditto.

[absolutsnwbrdr]

The postal service workers should be happy to carry any mail that they can. Things are a bit slow for them.

[eaglesdare]

well i did not get anything in the mail today, except bills.

[parnold]

[mikeschn]

I would think a piece of shingle would be heavier than a piece of wood.

But it lacks impact. Better would be a letter...

I think that the backlash by the Netflix defectors, followed up by the backlash of the Bank of America folks who didn't want to pay a monthly debit card fee, has set a new precedent.

If enough people are against it, business will listen. Let's set a good direction!

Mike...

[parnold]

Remember that old movie, where everyone started yelling out their windows, "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore". That's what this country needs, and actual candidates that support it.

[S. Heisley]

I would think a piece of shingle would be heavier than a piece of wood.

But it lacks impact. Better would be a letter...

I think that the backlash by the Netflix defectors, followed up by the backlash of the Bank of America folks who didn't want to pay a monthly debit card fee, has set a new precedent.

If enough people are against it, business will listen. Let's set a good direction!

Mike...

I vote for Mike's suggestion.

Please be aware that, if you put a shingle or something like that in an envelope and mail it, it will probably go through the post office equipment. If your envelope breaks their machine, you could be liable. The post office will not mail an envelope that does not have a return address on it; so, that's a "gotcha". Also, if the envelope weighs 14 ounces or more, you must hand-deliver it to the post office or it will not be mailed.

Additionally, any credit offers with your name on it should be shredded, to keep it out of the hands of credit-hungry thieves.

The corporate greed problem is not just nation-wide. It is world-wide. If there is any doubt, take a look at the problems in Europe. While corporations have a lot to do with the problem, we must also take some credit as many of us want as much as we can have, which means buying imported goods that may have been made in a sweat shop in China or who knows where. Or, as in Greece, complaining because retirement checks may not be as fat anymore because that country is going bankrupt from its burden.

At one time, Walmart tried to stock only made in USA goods but they gave up on that. When asked why, they explained that it was impossible to compete with the other stores. Those of us who purchase goods made in other countries must saddle some of the blame; and, at this point, it has become very difficult to do otherwise. So, where does one draw the line?

Buy as much as you can that is made in your own country, wherever that is. Let your feelings be known. Write to your congressman, your bank, and your local department stores. Give both positive and negative feedback where it is due.

In conclusion, thinking of responsible ways to make corporations and communities change is good...as long as your ideas are logically thought out and do not make situations worse for you or cause harm to innocent people.

[StandUpGuy]

There are lots of ills in the US economy. Having our products mainly built in China and other countries is a long term problem that has slowly been eating away at our economy and standard of living, but the mortgage crisis is a seperate issue from this long term problem.
Banks have been making loans based on risk or lack ther of for centuries. Anybody who is older 40 knows how picky banks were in the 60s and 70s and of course before that too. Banks are about making money as they should be. They do not in general want to make risky loans. This all changed for a big part with the "Housing and Community Development Act" 1992. HUD and Fannie and Freddie were charged with the task of buying sub prime loans made by banks as an encouragement of this mandate. Banks were required to make a certain quantity of these high risk loans. This is not what banks wish to do. Now I would agree that those people that bundled these bad loans and passed them off as something they were not and sold them should be found guilty of something. But then also those responsible in the government for forcing banks to make risky loans also should be held up to public scrutiny. They are not those people are still in office. Ultimately I blame the Press. They allow Barney Frank to get away with pointing the finger bankers with out calling him out publicly on his role in it all.

[S. Heisley]

I agree with most of what StandUpGuy said.

It is true that the economy has been degrading for a long time and may continue to do so for a while. As the US dollar degrades, though, more manufacturing jobs may come back to the US because costs to continue manufacturing products in other countries will become less advantageous. Already, final assembly of some big ticket items is being brought back to our soil because transportation costs have increased so much for those. For those items, we will eventually be faced with a world economy, which is not necessarily all bad.

Yes, the banks were encouraged to make bad loans by changed government rules. Remembering back, I believe some of that started a good 20 years ago or so. More recent political "games" encouraged people to refinance their homes and spend the ballooning equity or to buy more homes and things than what was fiscally responsible. The population must take some of the blame for that. Nobody put a gun to their heads and made them sign those loan papers.

We helped do it to ourselves. Now, the party is over and it is time to deal with the financial hang-over; clean up the mess left behind; and eliminate some of the "money pimps" and "money dealers" or at least try to get more semblance of financial order back. Part of that may be by writing those large, greedy "fat cats" and telling them that it is time to slim down. Ultimately we, as a mass, are responsible. ‘We’ allowed it to happen because many of us can be as greedy as the corporate and political fat cats. We just aren’t as clever.

[StandUpGuy]

...
The population must take some of the blame for that. Nobody put a gun to their heads and made them sign those loan papers....

The majority of those that skipped out of mortgage payments and had zero down payment on the house lost nothing other than bad credit. I looked at many houses that were forclosure sales over the last few years. These houses had everything ripped out of them by the credit risk homeowners. Sinks faucets, heating grills! Everything. These people had nothing in the house and thus cared not a hoot about it. They had no skin in the game. Now everybody else is suffering with dropped home values. Those that stole the door knobs from the houses to sell for 2 dollars Did not lose anything. So yeah nobody held a gun to their heads to make the loan but the real losers are not these people anyway.

[S. Heisley]

...
The population must take some of the blame for that. Nobody put a gun to their heads and made them sign those loan papers....

The majority of those that skipped out of mortgage payments and had zero down payment on the house lost nothing other than bad credit. I looked at many houses that were forclosure sales over the last few years. These houses had everything ripped out of them by the credit risk homeowners. Sinks faucets, heating grills! Everything. These people had nothing in the house and thus cared not a hoot about it. They had no skin in the game. Now everybody else is suffering with dropped home values. Those that stole the door knobs from the houses to sell for 2 dollars Did not lose anything. So yeah nobody held a gun to their heads to make the loan but the real losers are not these people anyway.

It may not have been the owners, Mark. There are gangs of thieves that go around stripping vacant houses, even sometimes removing the electrical wiring, if it is copper, and taking the sinks and toilets as well. They sell it all at various swap meets, etc. This is not a new thing. It has been happening in other countries for years. A relative of mine was in the Korean War (in the 1950's) when his Jeep broke down. They had to leave it there over-night. When they went back the next morning, nothing was left but the frame. Welcome to the world-economy of thieves.

[wired]

Everyone seems to be blaming "Big Banks" for the current economic crisis in America. No one seems to remember the politicians (starting with POTUS Clinton) and congress (Barney Frank and Christopher Dodd, to name 2), who forced banks via legislation, to lend money for mortgages to people who in no way could afford the payments. All this under the guise of "equality" and that everyone has the "right" to own their own home, whether they can afford it or not. These loans were made in many, many cases, with no proof of income required. This availability of easy money in turn led to greedy people getting cheap loans from banks for bigger and bigger houses, and more and more real estate, that they too, could not afford. Everyone was counting on the value of that real estate rising, at which point EVERYONE would sell and make a bundle. Well, that obviously did not happen. What we got instead was a housing bubble, with many people upside down in their loans, all because of THEIR greed.
My wife and I are blessed to both be working. We have 6 years left to pay on our house. We do not live extravagantly, we have no debt (other than our mortgage) - credit cards are paid off every month, and our cars are paid for. We have our only child in college, which we saved for. We could have afforded a much bigger house when we purchased, but didn't need it. We can afford newer, fancier cars, but we don't need them. We can afford much more "stuff" in our lives, but we don't need it. We have money in the bank set aside for emergencies and for retirement. This is because we looked toward the future, and were frugal.
There are a lot of people out there protesting who are there because of their own greed, and because of short sightedness. They are looking to point the finger at anyone but themselves for their predicament. Did they REALLY need that bigger house, 2nd home, fancier car, etc, ? I don't think so. So I have no sympathy for many of these folks as they have made their own beds.
So my beef is with the government, not banks, not corporations (who by the way, create jobs), because it is our government and their legislative policies that caused this whole thing to begin with.